[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

[West Phoenicia]

I agree with the West Phoenician delegation. Right and wrong may not be a democratic question, but in the WA it has to be. Otherwise what kind of question can it be? Everybody thinks they're right; how are we to decide whose morality to follow if not by voting?

Excactly Ambassador,

We have the daunting task of voting in legislation. Each day we decide is this right or wrong for my nation and the scores of WA nations. Our legislations and our votes help shape the destiny of the world population.

This legislation is prime example. The vote to ban was defeated, but it doesnt mean they are wrong in their thinking. The nays won it doesnt mean they are right in their thinking.. Most ambassadors voted hopefully with the mindset, what is best. What is right.

Hopefully each side can go away and take new insight into what the opposing parties view points are. Let each ambassador sleep with their conscience clear. I bid adieu to the next legislation.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ambassador, so are you suggesting your thought process and beliefs are right and those outside your thinking are incorrect in their thinking?

What is right to you, may in fact not be the case for what is actually right.


What is right? The universal question does not lie in you alone.

"I'm suggesting your platitudes regarding how 'everybody's opinion is special' is so much pointless drivel. Denying rights based on popularity contests is how apartheid states form."

[Nogodia]

Happy to see it fail.

[Xanthal]

Personally I've found the self-assurance of being right cold comfort when I'm on the wrong side of the General Assembly, but if it works for you Ambassador then you'll get no rebuke from me. Speaking of pointless drivel though, I think my work here is done. No sense prattling on about a closed question when the issue rears its head anew elsewhere. Time for my own adieu.

[Arasi Luvasa]

Ambassador, so are you suggesting your thought process and beliefs are right and those outside your thinking are incorrect in their thinking?

What is right to you, may in fact not be the case for what is actually right.


What is right? The universal question does not lie in you alone.

"I'm suggesting your platitudes regarding how 'everybody's opinion is special' is so much pointless drivel. Denying rights based on popularity contests is how apartheid states form."

OOC: Ugh, I hate dealing with apartheid though now I am wondering if Afrikaans exists in this setting. Very lazy word though.

"Well if you value national sovereignty so much, I hope you will at least vote in favor of the repeal on the Reproductive Freedoms resolution. Many of those against this proposal stated that it should not be up to the World Assembly to mandate these issues, let's see how far you carry those beliefs"

[Separatist Peoples]

"I'm suggesting your platitudes regarding how 'everybody's opinion is special' is so much pointless drivel. Denying rights based on popularity contests is how apartheid states form."

OOC: Ugh, I hate dealing with apartheid though now I am wondering if Afrikaans exists in this setting. Very lazy word though.

"Well if you value national sovereignty so much, I hope you will at least vote in favor of the repeal on the Reproductive Freedoms resolution. Many of those against this proposal stated that it should not be up to the World Assembly to mandate these issues, let's see how far you carry those beliefs"

"Ambassador, I consider the current World Assembly laws on abortion to be more than adequate to protect the rights of persons under World Assembly jurisdiction. National Sovereignty is only valuable insofar as it produces beneficial results. In this case, the evidence proves otherwise."

[Arasi Luvasa]

"While we are unhappy with abortion laws in general, we find it repulsive that our nation should be forced to allow abortion up until the point of birth. A variation which forces nation to allow abortions to an extent, such as until the nervous system forms, would be acceptable. That still leaves, I believe, a few month for the woman to abort the child."

[United Massachusetts]

Ooc: you folks keep going on as if this is a milestone or watershed moment for the GA when new policies fail literally all the time. This is business as usual.

Oh, please my friend, don't be such a sore loser. Believe us, history will remember where you stood on this.

Indeed it will. The fight continues.

[Separatist Peoples]

"While we are unhappy with abortion laws in general, we find it repulsive that our nation should be forced to allow abortion up until the point of birth. A variation which forces nation to allow abortions to an extent, such as until the nervous system forms, would be acceptable. That still leaves, I believe, a few month for the woman to abort the child."

"You're entitled to believe what you will. This is not the proper avenue for that discussion."

[Arta]

Ha! Glad to see such idiotic legislation fail.

[Gudmund]

Scanning over her tablet, the Secretary of Civilian Security, Zoe Pontar, smirks at the replies of squabbling nations.

"What many nations in support of this resolution seem to be forgetting, is the potential economic expenses that come with replacing the death penalty. Alternative punishments, such as life imprisonment, are inefficient and costly for small and large nations alike, as these prisoners have to be provided the necessary space and resources until their eventual death."

Sighing from across the room, the Secretary of Health, Philo Moreschi stares blankly at his tablet, "Of course, its also debatable whether or not life imprisonment is a breach of human rights too. In some places its actually considered inhumane and torturous to lock another individual up for the rest of their lives, that is of course until they are potentially proven innocent, which would of course require some form of reimbursement."

"That is true I suppose," replies Zoe, staring blankly at the roof, "In fact, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of nations that don't even have prisons to house such criminals. Oh well... with us being so distant in this part of the galaxy, it doesn't really matter in the long run."

TL:DR I do not support the Banning of Capital Punishment.

[Lord Dominator]

The Emperor chuckles.

"It seems justice and national liberty has prevailed. This is the start of a new era: A World Assembly, not a Global Empire."

"You're who knows how long out of date with your claimed new era, and I expect that soon this Assembly will return to the way it has been, and always will be."

[Linux and the X]

We hope this will be resubmitted. Even if it fails again, we're happy to see it drain the resources of those states that believe it acceptable to kill.

This cost Kashida literally nothing to fight in fact after the first day we just kept an eye on the voting.Also how petty lose with dignity.

Well, that's lovely for you, but many states invested resources into campaigning against this, and we're happy to see them invest more. Petty? Sure, but at least we're not killing anyone.

[Elwher]

This cost Kashida literally nothing to fight in fact after the first day we just kept an eye on the voting.Also how petty lose with dignity.

Well, that's lovely for you, but many states invested resources into campaigning against this, and we're happy to see them invest more. Petty? Sure, but at least we're not killing anyone.

The delegate from Elwher puts down his celebratory Laphroaig and addresses the group.

The important thing, in our opinion, is that any nation opposed to capital punishment is still free to ban it within their nation. This is a victory, not for execution, but for national sovereignty.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

Scanning over her tablet, the Secretary of Civilian Security, Zoe Pontar, smirks at the replies of squabbling nations.

"What many nations in support of this resolution seem to be forgetting, is the potential economic expenses that come with replacing the death penalty. Alternative punishments, such as life imprisonment, are inefficient and costly for small and large nations alike, as these prisoners have to be provided the necessary space and resources until their eventual death."

Sighing from across the room, the Secretary of Health, Philo Moreschi stares blankly at his tablet, "Of course, its also debatable whether or not life imprisonment is a breach of human rights too. In some places its actually considered inhumane and torturous to lock another individual up for the rest of their lives, that is of course until they are potentially proven innocent, which would of course require some form of reimbursement."

"That is true I suppose," replies Zoe, staring blankly at the roof, "In fact, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of nations that don't even have prisons to house such criminals. Oh well... with us being so distant in this part of the galaxy, it doesn't really matter in the long run."

TL:DR I do not support the Banning of Capital Punishment.

"Ms. and Mr. Secretary, I disagree with this. In some developed nations, the cost of executing a person is not less than the cost of housing a prisonmate. There are legal costs¹, and studies and news are shown that while the execution itself is cheaper and you are placing the prisoners in less prison time, you are dealing with higher costs in trying to defend a condemned prisoner than someone serving life. Obviously, the studies and costs would vary within each country and states or provinces, but since the stakes are higher and deals with the person's life in question, you cannot say that capital punishment is cheaper than life in prison.

And when you are out there believing that capital punishment is more humane because it is unfair to stick them in a place where they don't want to be, keep in mind that in some countries euthanisia and suicide is considered illegal. If a person who hasn't committed a serious crime is suffering under mental health or physical condition, why should the prisoner be able to live more freely than the person undergoing trauma and needs to consider ending his or her own life? And if your prisons aren't there, I am not sure how do you manage to house the rest of the prisonmates."

1. [Considering the Death Penalty, Your Tax Dollars at Work, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphill ... 0f30ed664b]

[Sefy the Great]

Scanning over her tablet, the Secretary of Civilian Security, Zoe Pontar, smirks at the replies of squabbling nations.

"What many nations in support of this resolution seem to be forgetting, is the potential economic expenses that come with replacing the death penalty. Alternative punishments, such as life imprisonment, are inefficient and costly for small and large nations alike, as these prisoners have to be provided the necessary space and resources until their eventual death."

Sighing from across the room, the Secretary of Health, Philo Moreschi stares blankly at his tablet, "Of course, its also debatable whether or not life imprisonment is a breach of human rights too. In some places its actually considered inhumane and torturous to lock another individual up for the rest of their lives, that is of course until they are potentially proven innocent, which would of course require some form of reimbursement."

"That is true I suppose," replies Zoe, staring blankly at the roof, "In fact, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of nations that don't even have prisons to house such criminals. Oh well... with us being so distant in this part of the galaxy, it doesn't really matter in the long run."

TL:DR I do not support the Banning of Capital Punishment.

"Ms. and Mr. Secretary, I disagree with this. In some developed nations, the cost of executing a person is not less than the cost of housing a prisonmate. There are legal costs¹, and studies and news are shown that while the execution itself is cheaper and you are placing the prisoners in less prison time, you are dealing with higher costs in trying to defend a condemned prisoner than someone serving life. Obviously, the studies and costs would vary within each country and states or provinces, but since the stakes are higher and deals with the person's life in question, you cannot say that capital punishment is cheaper than life in prison.

And when you are out there believing that capital punishment is more humane because it is unfair to stick them in a place where they don't want to be, keep in mind that in some countries euthanisia and suicide is considered illegal. If a person who hasn't committed a serious crime is suffering under mental health or physical condition, why should the prisoner be able to live more freely than the person undergoing trauma and needs to consider ending his or her own life? And if your prisons aren't there, I am not sure how do you manage to house the rest of the prisonmates."

1. [Considering the Death Penalty, Your Tax Dollars at Work, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphill ... 0f30ed664b]

(OOC: it seems you have forgotten the old nationstates joke "Having the Death Penalty for Attempted Suicide")

[Sacara]

"Ambassador, I consider the current World Assembly laws on abortion to be more than adequate to protect the rights of persons under World Assembly jurisdiction. National Sovereignty is only valuable insofar as it produces beneficial results. In this case, the evidence proves otherwise."

"Ambassador, the World Assembly rejected the outright ban of capital punishment because it wasn't right. It wasn't because the majority is oppressing everyone. It's more so about we care about our citizens, and we see it entirely fit to condemn to death those who commit especially heinous crimes. Stop accusing and complaining about the majority of nations of being oppressive and get your head out of your ass for once."

[Ru-]

An alternative death penalty resolution is up for vote. There doesn't seem to have been much discussion, but we are tentatively in favor of it. Our one and only complaint would be that the term "nonviolent" interferes with executions for particularly egregious cases of high treason.

but this is an acceptable sacrifice to make in the face of the scores of nations implementing capital punishment for just any old crime. This is something we can discuss with the compliance comittee or perhaps this proposed "Division" at a later time. Or perhaps we can argue our way around this particular article.

we will support in any event.

[Jocospor]

But dear Ambassador it is not your right alone to dictate what is right and wrong. Just because you may feel your view on capital punishment is right and justified doesnt make it so.

Its a grey issue not a black and white issue. Same goes for abortion, euthanasia and sending men and women to war knowing they could be killed. You will never get 100% agreement to think so is selfish.

Your rights may lie with the accused or the woman wanting to abort or the person dying a painful death, other people feel the rights of the victim have been trampled on and justice needs to be served or they think of the life growing in the womb or the fact that doctors have given false diagnosis and healthy people have died or members of society feeling people with mental issues should also be euthanized.

"Ambassador, what is right is also not a democratic question. Which is why we dont permit majorities to vote minorities into oppression. That people disagree means little."

Ah yes, but what is right and wrong is subjective.

And which is why we don't permit majorities to vote minorities into oppression? Please, give us a break. The entire voting structure of the World Assembly does just that. Deny it, if you will, though you'd be fundamentally wrong. Oh - shouldn't use subjective terminology, silly us! You'd be fundamentally incorrect.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Ambassador, what is right is also not a democratic question. Which is why we dont permit majorities to vote minorities into oppression. That people disagree means little."

Ah yes, but what is right and wrong is subjective.

And which is why we don't permit majorities to vote minorities into oppression? Please, give us a break. The entire voting structure of the World Assembly does just that. Deny it, if you will, though you'd be fundamentally wrong. Oh - shouldn't use subjective terminology, silly us! You'd be fundamentally incorrect.

"The abmassador appears to be conflating the issue of moral right being non-democratic and the only available mechanism in the WA. I've given up on hoping your delegation's keen legal minds can notice context. Voting to enforce slavery would be wrong despite it's theoretical democratic support.

"At any rate, as your nation appears to be noncompliant with several WA nations, my nation is required to enforce economic and political sanctions against you. Which, per the Foreign Ministry, means ignoring you and pelting your delegation with rotting fruit. I dont have any fruit now, so I'll have to waive that part. It looks like there will be a shipment within the next few days."

Bell looks at the Jocospor delegation and shrugs. "Well, the law is the law, ambassador."

[Jocospor]

Ah yes, but what is right and wrong is subjective.

And which is why we don't permit majorities to vote minorities into oppression? Please, give us a break. The entire voting structure of the World Assembly does just that. Deny it, if you will, though you'd be fundamentally wrong. Oh - shouldn't use subjective terminology, silly us! You'd be fundamentally incorrect.

"The abmassador appears to be conflating the issue of moral right being non-democratic and the only available mechanism in the WA. I've given up on hoping your delegation's keen legal minds can notice context. Voting to enforce slavery would be wrong despite it's theoretical democratic support.

"At any rate, as your nation appears to be noncompliant with several WA nations, my nation is required to enforce economic and political sanctions against you. Which, per the Foreign Ministry, means ignoring you and pelting your delegation with rotting fruit. I dont have any fruit now, so I'll have to waive that part. It looks like there will be a shipment within the next few days."

Bell looks at the Jocospor delegation and shrugs. "Well, the law is the law, ambassador."

*the Delegate's Office collectively raises all the room's eyebrows* We welcome your sanctions, though you would be wise to consider otherwise. It would bode poorly for you to be considered an official enemy of the Imperial State.

[Separatist Peoples]

"The abmassador appears to be conflating the issue of moral right being non-democratic and the only available mechanism in the WA. I've given up on hoping your delegation's keen legal minds can notice context. Voting to enforce slavery would be wrong despite it's theoretical democratic support.

"At any rate, as your nation appears to be noncompliant with several WA nations, my nation is required to enforce economic and political sanctions against you. Which, per the Foreign Ministry, means ignoring you and pelting your delegation with rotting fruit. I dont have any fruit now, so I'll have to waive that part. It looks like there will be a shipment within the next few days."

Bell looks at the Jocospor delegation and shrugs. "Well, the law is the law, ambassador."

*the Delegate's Office collectively raises all the room's eyebrows* We welcome your sanctions, though you would be wise to consider otherwise. It would bode poorly for you to be considered an official enemy of the Imperial State.

Bell shrugs helplessly. "Thems the rules, bud." He looks around at his desk, picks up a half-eaten granola bar, and flicks it at the Jocosporian delegation, and then shrugs again.

[West Phoenicia]

"The abmassador appears to be conflating the issue of moral right being non-democratic and the only available mechanism in the WA. I've given up on hoping your delegation's keen legal minds can notice context. Voting to enforce slavery would be wrong despite it's theoretical democratic support.

"At any rate, as your nation appears to be noncompliant with several WA nations, my nation is required to enforce economic and political sanctions against you. Which, per the Foreign Ministry, means ignoring you and pelting your delegation with rotting fruit. I dont have any fruit now, so I'll have to waive that part. It looks like there will be a shipment within the next few days."

Bell looks at the Jocospor delegation and shrugs. "Well, the law is the law, ambassador."

*the Delegate's Office collectively raises all the room's eyebrows* We welcome your sanctions, though you would be wise to consider otherwise. It would bode poorly for you to be considered an official enemy of the Imperial State.

The Confederate Empire of West Phoenicia is happy for our Trades Minister to touch base with yours in regards to trade if you fear economic sanctions from the above nations ambassadors threats. Ambassador Baroness Margarita Too-Rak chuckles.

[PaleoAmerica]

Ha! Glad to see such idiotic legislation fail.

Agreed. It's amazing that some supporting ambassadors of this acted like rude know-it-alls, and this blew up in their face.

[Die PreuBen Kaiserreich]

Ha! Glad to see such idiotic legislation fail.

Agreed. It's amazing that some supporting ambassadors of this acted like rude know-it-alls, and this blew up in their face.

We got another one coming up. This better fail too. It's the same thing.