[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

[Separatist Peoples]

"I didn't argue that the execution was unjustified, though imprisonment was more than sufficient. I argued that state-sanctioned vengeance is never justified. Because it is never justice. Vengeance is merely self-gratification."

*A silence emerges, as both men ponder the argument beforehand. Finally, McCooley decides to ease the tension.*

"I personally commend your fine nation on its progressive view on the Justice System. Right now, here in Greater Cesnica, our society needs to acclimatize to the concept of showing murders to criminals who have committed reprehensible offenses. After all... It hasn't been eight years... Since 6/2/10."

"My nation disparages arguments from pathos. We are not devoid of passion, but we allow cooler heads to prevail."

[Greater Cesnica]

*A silence emerges, as both men ponder the argument beforehand. Finally, McCooley decides to ease the tension.*

"I personally commend your fine nation on its progressive view on the Justice System. Right now, here in Greater Cesnica, our society needs to acclimatize to the concept of showing murders to criminals who have committed reprehensible offenses. After all... It hasn't been eight years... Since 6/2/10."

"My nation disparages arguments from pathos. We are not devoid of passion, but we allow cooler heads to prevail."

*He bows his head*

"I concede to your debating logic. Thank you for the conversation."

[The Palentine]

The phrase "Kiss my ass!" comes to mind, but that would be undiplomatic.

Why start being diplomatic now?

I've been involved with the Festering Snakepit for pretty much 13 years, Spanky. I don't believe I need to justify my remaining a member to you or anybody else.

One wonders why someone would be part of a voluntary organization one referres to as a “festering snake pit.”
The only explanation that makes sense is that you enjoy being pointlessly antagonistic.

As for throwing around insults, this is nothing in comparison to the Abortion Legality Convention debate, or the Gay Rights debate. So my advice to you would be to chill out and have a popsicle.

You’re truly ramping up the victimization complex on your end if you feel others arguing in favour of treating gays and women as people constitutes an “insult.”

PS, if you don't think I'm fit to be my region's delegate, take it up with the AO's founder Ohmigodtheykilledkenny.

One would think that the natikns your region would select the delegate and not the founder. I suppose this revelation tells me all we need to know about the state of democracy in AO.

Actually the state of democracy in the AO, is actually a lot more free than you think, and looking at your national statistics, probably a hell of a lot more free than your own nation's citizens. I chose to stay here in the Festering Snakepit to continue to give a voice to National Sovereignty, and stand up for a smaller, less intrusive body. I'm also here to provide comedic relief, play the straight man, ogle the Thessasorian Ambassador, cannoodle with catgirls of loose and negotiable virtue, play rousing games of Pie in the Face(TM), sell my vote to the highest bidder for fun and profit, and hobnail my liver while smoking fine Yeldan Cigars(TM) Who the fuck died and left you to be the moral arbitrator of who is fit to be a member of this body? The fact that you are taking me and my hyperbole so damned seriously warms my blackened soul. It's so rewarding to not only get under a person's skin but to also leave a bad taste in their mouths. Now if you don't mind, I'm going to have a smoke and a drink.
<at this point the good but unwholesome Senator, opens up his desk's minibar and fixes up a Wild Turkey on the Rocks. Sitting back in his chair with his feet on the desk he fires up a fine Yeldan cigar(TM). After a few fragrant puffs he looks around and addresses his fellow delegates> Forgive my manners, but the bar is open for any who could use a snort. I'm currently stocked with Old Crow, Old Granddad, Wild Turkey, a few cans of Olde Frothingslosh, and a couple of mason jars of genuine West Virginia Snakebite Remedy.
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

[Sefy the Great]

Minister McCall rises from his seat and addresses his colleges

We must also remember that some people cannot be reformed and are too dangerous to be allowed to live. These people don't care about human life or how their victims suffered, they only understand one thing, and that's violence. We in Hogwarts Pride see what these murders and rapists truly are... scum to be hung from the gallows. They forfeited their right to live when they inflicted their heinous crimes on the innocent.

"Wrong on that count, Mr. McCall. Psychopathy is a medical disorder. In cases where the most revolting atrocities occurred, this is not a valid defense. But it paints an insight into the circumstances that led to the crime."

"Within Greatia, Psychopathy is often linked to being poor, due to sanity being the currency."
*the sound of wine being poured*
"depending on the place, being insane is not always a sign of medical disorder. sometimes, it is the mark of a Hedonist. An addiction. a sign of Bankruptcy. more unconventional terms can be classed as a 'currency'. I've meet a few ambassadors from nations with the currency of human souls, for example.
but we are not here to debate whether or not we should all decide on a mandatory coin between us all. we are here to discussed the death penalty. so continue. We've got a cellar of wine to drain."

[Greater Cesnica]

"Wrong on that count, Mr. McCall. Psychopathy is a medical disorder. In cases where the most revolting atrocities occurred, this is not a valid defense. But it paints an insight into the circumstances that led to the crime."

"Within Greatia, Psychopathy is often linked to being poor, due to sanity being the currency."
*the sound of wine being poured*
"depending on the place, being insane is not always a sign of medical disorder. sometimes, it is the mark of a Hedonist. An addiction. a sign of Bankruptcy. more unconventional terms can be classed as a 'currency'. I've meet a few ambassadors from nations with the currency of human souls, for example.
but we are not here to debate whether or not we should all decide on a mandatory coin between us all. we are here to discussed the death penalty. so continue. We've got a cellar of wine to drain."

"That seems rather backward..." Slick speaks quietly.

[Xanthal]

Hey, I've been discussing it this whole time. It's not my fault everyone else would rather bicker over who's got the craziest ideology. Frankly, with some of the company I'm keeping in the nay club over here I've had my own doubts, but just because some people have a position for bad reasons doesn't mean that others can't have it for good ones.

[Kowani]

"Wrong on that count, Mr. McCall. Psychopathy is a medical disorder. In cases where the most revolting atrocities occurred, this is not a valid defense. But it paints an insight into the circumstances that led to the crime."

"Within Greatia, Psychopathy is often linked to being poor, due to sanity being the currency."
*the sound of wine being poured*
"depending on the place, being insane is not always a sign of medical disorder. sometimes, it is the mark of a Hedonist. An addiction. a sign of Bankruptcy. more unconventional terms can be classed as a 'currency'. I've meet a few ambassadors from nations with the currency of human souls, for example.
but we are not here to debate whether or not we should all decide on a mandatory coin between us all. we are here to discussed the death penalty. so continue. We've got a cellar of wine to drain."

(OOC: You wouldn’t happen to be based on Fallen London, would you?)

[Greater Cesnica]

Hey, I've been discussing it this whole time. It's not my fault everyone else would rather bicker over who's got the craziest ideology. Frankly, with some of the company I'm keeping in the nay club over here I've had my own doubts, but just because some people have a position for bad reasons doesn't mean that others can't have it for good ones.

^

[Sefy the Great]

"Within Greatia, Psychopathy is often linked to being poor, due to sanity being the currency."
*the sound of wine being poured*
"depending on the place, being insane is not always a sign of medical disorder. sometimes, it is the mark of a Hedonist. An addiction. a sign of Bankruptcy. more unconventional terms can be classed as a 'currency'. I've meet a few ambassadors from nations with the currency of human souls, for example.
but we are not here to debate whether or not we should all decide on a mandatory coin between us all. we are here to discussed the death penalty. so continue. We've got a cellar of wine to drain."

(OOC: You wouldn’t happen to be based on Fallen London, would you?)

OOC: you'd be D--med to think i'm not based on it, Delirious friend. thanks for noticing.

[Elwher]

well it is only legal in Draos if it is Lethal Injection as that is the quickest and most humane method that is commonly accepted (as in terms of the method )

The guillotine is quick, nearly foolproof, and reusable.

[Greater Cesnica]

well it is only legal in Draos if it is Lethal Injection as that is the quickest and most humane method that is commonly accepted (as in terms of the method )

The guillotine is quick, nearly foolproof, and reusable.

Eight simultaneous shots from .223 rounds across the upper torso, head and neck regions are faster and more humane IMO

[Elwher]

The guillotine is quick, nearly foolproof, and reusable.

Eight simultaneous shots from .223 rounds across the upper torso, head and neck regions are faster and more humane IMO

But you have to keep buying bullets. A sharpening stone and the blade is as good as new.

[Greater Cesnica]

Eight simultaneous shots from .223 rounds across the upper torso, head and neck regions are faster and more humane IMO

But you have to keep buying bullets. A sharpening stone and the blade is as good as new.

Have you seen our military and weapons expenditure? We have a surplus of rounds.

[Elwher]

But you have to keep buying bullets. A sharpening stone and the blade is as good as new.

Have you seen our military and weapons expenditure? We have a surplus of rounds.

Also, we get by with only one man, where you need eight. Again, more economical.

[Greater Cesnica]

Have you seen our military and weapons expenditure? We have a surplus of rounds.

Also, we get by with only one man, where you need eight. Again, more economical.

Why would a man be pulling the trigger? One dude pushes a switch and eight M16-style rifles fire simultaneously at pre-aimed locations on the inmate's body, lined up by laser markers. 14 percent of our GDP is the industry. We invest heavily in robotics.

[Elwher]

Also, we get by with only one man, where you need eight. Again, more economical.

Why would a man be pulling the trigger?

Because cats don't have fingers? Who else?

[Greater Cesnica]

Why would a man be pulling the trigger?

Because cats don't have fingers? Who else?

Read the edit.

[Elwher]

Because cats don't have fingers? Who else?

Read the edit.

Sorry. I responded to what I saw.

[Greater Cesnica]

Read the edit.

Sorry. I responded to what I saw.

No worries. I gtg. Goodnight!

[Elwher]

Sorry. I responded to what I saw.

No worries. I gtg. Goodnight!

Goodnight to you as well.

[Hamstan]

"I, Oscar Hamer, representative of the Confederacy of Hamstan, here in the presence of these witnesses, do hereby state Hamstan's intentions to draft a repeal for GA #438, therefore rescinding GA #375 back into international law, believing that both the resolution at vote, as well as GA #438, violate national sovereignty. With the passing of GA #438, there are now no international laws governing capital punishment. This will not stand. Should this resolution fail, the assembly should do what is just and strike down GA #438 as well."

[Xanthal]

"I, Oscar Hamer, representative of the Confederacy of Hamstan, here in the presence of these witnesses, do hereby state Hamstan's intentions to draft a repeal for GA #438, therefore rescinding GA #375 back into international law, believing that both the resolution at vote, as well as GA #438, violate national sovereignty. With the passing of GA #438, there are now no international laws governing capital punishment. This will not stand. Should this resolution fail, the assembly should do what is just and strike down GA #438 as well."

OOC: Can't repeal repeals, though it might be funny if we could.

[Hamstan]

I could author it, you could co-author.

OOC: first off, dang it, didn't know we could't repeal repeals. Second off, yeah, we need to get something like that resi back, because if this fails (and it looks like it will) we need a law on the issue of capital punishment regardless. I will gladly co-author

[Inquisitiors]

There are several different ways a representative or diplomatic attaché from a foreign nature can argue this proposal. For and against arguments are strong, which is probably why the votes tend to be closer than usual. I do believe that a question this proposal raises is important and existential to the very nature of the World Assembly

Question: Does an all encompassing proposal regulating and ultimately banning the use of capital punishment in every nation violate the independence and sovereignty of the nations apart of the WA?

I believe that this is a nations rights v. World Assembly governing body rights issue and I do believe it is dangerous to allow a possible slim majority to govern the other 48 percent or so that may ultimately decide against this proposal. I will be voting no, but not necessarily because of the moralistic or emotional arguments presented today, but because this is too broad of a proposal that leaves no room for nation choice.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

"Humane?" Ambassador Baroness Margarita Too-Rak exhales.

"I find myself shaking my head at those nations who are voting yes for the ban and uttering the word humane. The victims become meaningless in many of their eyes as they choose to sympathize with the criminal and not the victim. How did it get to that point where we start worrying about the feelings of the convicted and demand if a nation enforces capital punishment it be done humanely?

Its capital punishment, not a day at the local amusement park nor is is prolonged torture. Its swift justice because they broke the law and committed a heinous act. And the right to capital punishment enforcement or banning it should be held in the hands of each nation.

A young child is brutally raped? But we should care more about the rapists feelings and to ensure his death by lethal injection, hanging, gulliotone is as painless as possible. World Assembly what about that victims pain that you now overlook?

A man who commits domestic violence on his wife and one day goes to far and beats his wife to death for the simple reason that dinner was not on the table when he got home from work. He beat her so bad her own parents could not recognize her at the morgue. World Assembly, what about the victims pain that you choose to ignore by voting yes to the ban and stripping sovereign nations of their right of law to punish the offender.

World Assembly, where is the justice for the 12 church members shot dead by militant lesbian atheist ( name withheld) whose bigotry and hate led her to shoot 12 innocent people than brag about it on social media.

World Assembly, don't strip away our rights to capital punishment!

Think of the victims right to justice!
Just like in the bombing of a gay night club in a rural area of West Phoenicia by a terrorist organization known as The Puritian Collective that murdered 25 gay people enjoying a night out at a nightclub, including in that was a young man who planned to marry his life partner the next day.
Or the bombing of a primary school that left 10 dead children or the bombing of the aged care facility, that killed 30 staff and residents. Some child wont get to see their nanna now. A husband of a nurse who worked there, wont get to see his wife's face again, nor will her children.
No thoughts seem to cross the minds of some liberal ambassadors who only care about the guilty party.
The deaths of these women and children and men of every colour, creed and race are entitled to justice. Their deaths were inhumane. Think about them for a change.

The list is endless. So people who talk of ensuring that the perpetrators of these crimes is snuffed out humanely, seem to only ever care about their rights and not of the poor victims who were taken away before their time. World Assembly ambassadors, some of you may not agree with capital punishment, that is fine, ban it in your own nation but don't strip away the rights of other nations who seek further justice for the victims.

"I sympathize with the victims. It is a tragedy to see if someone is brutally killed or raped. There is no sense to it. Someone who has caused much pain and grief to the victim shouldn't be in that person's life and deserves to be put away, although it is unlikely to be resolved easily. Capital punishment should not be seen as gratification nor revenge. And the state should not execute the criminal based on the idea of committing the act itself but if it does help the victim and if the person identified maliciously did it.

Do I believe that the capital punishment issue is likely not an international issue? Yes but examining what I think on it for my nation and for what is ultimately right, it is probably justified. If someone has done a great deal of pain, he needs to be put away. But I just don't think I can rely on the judges to be able to make the decision. A great crime is committed and you're looking at the death penalty. Let's say it is a mass shooting of a crowd in a concert at night where it happened right at a hotel and all he was thinking of was to waste away his anger. The evidence was given and he is found guilty. And what sentence do you give him? The public wants death. It isn't right to give it like that as if you're feeding the crowd what it wants, but I think there's a silent tragedy in condemning the person to death. If you imprison him to life, all the people can just hope and get back to their own lives. In another case where someone ends up raping multiple children without a conscience, and he is given the sentence, it is easier to give him the death penalty. Acting on this, this resolution should not pass but you are really relying on the justice system to be able to make the right decision and I am not comfortable to know what's right.

Naturally, a great government official who used to live in the ghettos expressed his thoughts trying to persuade me to vote for this resolution. He said how all the people in the neighborhood was influenced by gang violence and it was really terrible. However, one man Rudolph Torrez a prominent ranking gang member, was respected and liked by his son and the official happened to know the son's sister, dealt drugs and killed people. He was caught and found guilty. The son did not like what he did but he knew he was the father anyway. But when he was sentenced to death for the state was conservative, it really much impacted the gang and on the family. If he was just sent to prison, then the family could be able to still visit him, but it left a mark on it and that's why he wanted me to vote yes.

But I see how it is just too complicated. You end a convicted criminal's life to make it go away. Earlier I have said that I am for life for the person that the person should not be ended his life because I don't think the state should be involved in a judging that person's will to live even if it involved terrible things and that there is too much stakes involved with the potential mistakes and flaws of inequity of representation between demographics of people. But it might be better this way. There will be trauma and emotional grief and it's not necessarily what you want to go through but you will do it no matter what."