[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

[Elwher]

We of Elwher feel that, as the imposition of capital punishment in no way affects international relations, this should be an internal decision for each nation to make upon consultation with its own citizenry. We find this resolution to be an unjustified attempt by the WA to interfere in the internal politics of member nations and therefore, with no statement on the morality or effectiveness of capital punishment, must vote against this power grab.

It was addressed in the repeal resolution and imperium sent out telegram how it did not change the crime rate

If it were proven to have no effect, or if it were proven to be completely successful, Elwher would still be against taking away the decision power from the individual member states on this, a purely internal matter. Our objection is on the grounds of the WA attempting an unjustified power grab.

[VW53Aland]

OOC: I think it goes both ways. I've been spammed with "please for FOR" telegrams.

(OOC: Both sides have really been campaigning hard for this to be passed or defeated. I’m fairly certain this is one of the most contentious and talked-about issues in the time I’ve been on NS, and for quite a bit before that. The vote is also incredibly close and, though the AGAINST” side is currently winning, it is with such a small margin that I hope the proposal can end up being passed.)

OOC (not that it matters to me): Weird. I think I've received only one plea in favour of a ban and about nine against such a ban.

[The Sect Meces]

(OOC: Both sides have really been campaigning hard for this to be passed or defeated. I’m fairly certain this is one of the most contentious and talked-about issues in the time I’ve been on NS, and for quite a bit before that. The vote is also incredibly close and, though the AGAINST” side is currently winning, it is with such a small margin that I hope the proposal can end up being passed.)

OOC (not that it matters to me): Weird. I think I've received only one plea in favour of a ban and about nine against such a ban.

I've only received one telegram for, and that was by the co-author.

The majority were against.

[Nunavutialand]

"Nunavutialand wishes to reiterate its staunch opposition to such a ban finding it violates the acceptable amount of power excertable by a respected supranational organisation such as the World Assembly. We respect the job and work of the WA but do not believe this will assist the world in any way. Nations will likely find crueller methods that will bypass this Resolution. The Free State has already made clear that it does not intend to support any ban on capital punishment in the foreseeable future due to Nunavutialand's practise of the death penalty.
We will not hesitate to vote to repeal this proposed ban should the situation arise."

[VW53Aland]

"Nunavutialand wishes to reiterate its staunch opposition to such a ban finding it violates the acceptable amount of power excertable by a respected supranational organisation such as the World Assembly. We respect the job and work of the WA but do not believe this will assist the world in any way. Nations will likely find crueller methods that will bypass this Resolution. The Free State has already made clear that it does not intend to support any ban on capital punishment in the foreseeable future due to Nunavutialand's practise of the death penalty.
We will not hesitate to vote to repeal this proposed ban should the situation arise."

What is more cruel, but above all: more final and irreversible, than the death penalty?

[The Sect Meces]

"Nunavutialand wishes to reiterate its staunch opposition to such a ban finding it violates the acceptable amount of power excertable by a respected supranational organisation such as the World Assembly. We respect the job and work of the WA but do not believe this will assist the world in any way. Nations will likely find crueller methods that will bypass this Resolution. The Free State has already made clear that it does not intend to support any ban on capital punishment in the foreseeable future due to Nunavutialand's practise of the death penalty.
We will not hesitate to vote to repeal this proposed ban should the situation arise."

What is more cruel, but above all: more final and irreversible, than the death penalty?

Lobotomy.

[Separatist Peoples]

What is more cruel, but above all: more final and irreversible, than the death penalty?

Lobotomy.

OOC: that isn't generally a penal solution.

[The Sect Meces]

Lobotomy.

OOC: that isn't generally a penal solution.

OOC: Nothing's stopping it.

[Aruia]

Nations should be able to choose for themselves over punishment. Overly severe punishment still will be heavily condmended with or without the passage of this.
Aruia votes against in the belief ruling system of each nation can decide for themselves what is legitimate punishment by law.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: that isn't generally a penal solution.

OOC: Nothing's stopping it.

OOC: GAR#9 does. So does the Patient Rights Act.

[Prydania]

The phrase "Kiss my ass!" comes to mind, but that would be undiplomatic.

Why start being diplomatic now?

I've been involved with the Festering Snakepit for pretty much 13 years, Spanky. I don't believe I need to justify my remaining a member to you or anybody else.

One wonders why someone would be part of a voluntary organization one referres to as a “festering snake pit.”
The only explanation that makes sense is that you enjoy being pointlessly antagonistic.

As for throwing around insults, this is nothing in comparison to the Abortion Legality Convention debate, or the Gay Rights debate. So my advice to you would be to chill out and have a popsicle.

You’re truly ramping up the victimization complex on your end if you feel others arguing in favour of treating gays and women as people constitutes an “insult.”

PS, if you don't think I'm fit to be my region's delegate, take it up with the AO's founder Ohmigodtheykilledkenny.

One would think that the natikns your region would select the delegate and not the founder. I suppose this revelation tells me all we need to know about the state of democracy in AO.

[Clicktopia]

"Why don't we put the responsibility for executing capital punishment in the hands of the WA to ensure it is done in a humane manner?"

[Sefy the Great]

"Why don't we put the responsibility for executing capital punishment in the hands of the WA to ensure it is done in a humane manner?"

"nothings more humane then giving them a choice! would they prefer hanging, a pill or just six rifle rounds?"

[Draos]

"Why don't we put the responsibility for executing capital punishment in the hands of the WA to ensure it is done in a humane manner?"

I agree with this personally there are honestly people who are too dangerous for even many maximum security prisons like serial killers and rapists that should never see the light of day and can't' be around other inmates for the other inmates safety.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

"Why don't we put the responsibility for executing capital punishment in the hands of the WA to ensure it is done in a humane manner?"

"nothings more humane then giving them a choice! would they prefer hanging, a pill or just six rifle rounds?"

A bullet ought to do it but in all methods it's not guaranteed to be painless and quick a pill can be unsuccessful

[Draos]

well it is only legal in Draos if it is Lethal Injection as that is the quickest and most humane method that is commonly accepted (as in terms of the method )

[Sefy the Great]

"nothings more humane then giving them a choice! would they prefer hanging, a pill or just six rifle rounds?"

A bullet ought to do it but in all methods it's not guaranteed to be painless and quick a pill can be unsuccessful

i agree that pills (especially untested pills) can be unsuccessful.
but nothing's more successful then a good ol' fashioned c y a n i d e

[Grenartia]

Has the division upon this topic really gone down to petty insults?

"If you don't like it just leave"

For gods sake people.

That's neither petty nor an insult. Its a simple statement of logic.

[Grenartia]

"Why don't we put the responsibility for executing capital punishment in the hands of the WA to ensure it is done in a humane manner?"

"nothings more humane then giving them a choice! would they prefer hanging, a pill or just six rifle rounds?"

And how can you be so sure you're actually revenge killing the correct person? Or does your government simply not care about killing innocent people?

[Draos]

and you're fine with the risks if you're wrong? yes if someone innocent is killed yes its sad but one innocent is not worth 15 in my opinion.

[Separatist Peoples]

and you're fine with the risks if you're wrong? yes if someone innocent is killed yes its sad but one innocent is not worth 15 in my opinion.

OOC: The sentiment of a tyrant, that.

[Sefy the Great]

"nothings more humane then giving them a choice! would they prefer hanging, a pill or just six rifle rounds?"

And how can you be so sure you're actually revenge killing the correct person? Or does your government simply not care about killing innocent people?

you can't really avoid collateral damage. besides, it's not a revenge kill, it's Capital Punishment, for Capital deeds. we don't hang someone because they stole a loaf of bread! we just fine them. and in the Greatian Commonwealth, you don't want a fine, with Sanity being the currency.

[Grenartia]

and you're fine with the risks if you're wrong? yes if someone innocent is killed yes its sad but one innocent is not worth 15 in my opinion.

That's why we make damn sure we have the hard evidence before we try to convict, and why our most severe punishment is life in prison.

And how can you be so sure you're actually revenge killing the correct person? Or does your government simply not care about killing innocent people?

you can't really avoid collateral damage.

We manage to.

besides, it's not a revenge kill, it's Capital Punishment,

I fail to see a difference.

for Capital deeds.

Define "Capital deed".

we don't hang someone because they stole a loaf of bread! we just fine them. and in the Greatian Commonwealth, you don't want a fine, with Sanity being the currency.

You punish people for petty crimes, by depriving them of their capacity to make informed decisions? Not only is that utterly barbaric, and almost certainly counter to currently-standing WA legislation, it sounds like it does nothing but increase your crime rate.

[Xanthal]

Any nation that cares about protecting the innocent will institute policies and procedures to minimize false convictions to every practical extent, but no system is perfect. Mistakes will happen. The core argument of the Federation on this point is that unjustly putting a person in jail for years or decades is not inherently preferable to unjustly executing someone, ethically speaking.

[Grenartia]

Any nation that cares about protecting the innocent will institute policies and procedures to minimize false convictions to every practical extent, but no system is perfect. Mistakes will happen. The core argument of the Federation on this point is that unjustly putting a person in jail for years or decades is not inherently preferable to unjustly executing someone, ethically speaking.

How isn't it? While yes, somebody who has been falsely imprisoned won't get that time back, they have the rest of their lives back, and their freedom. Someone who has been falsely executed gets neither. Seems like the former is inherently infinitely preferable to the latter, ethically speaking.