[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

[Sefy the Great]

We must continue our fight against this proposal. Keep on spreading the word to ensure that this does not pass.

Y tho?

If you want to revenge kill people, leave the WA. Simple as.

can we stop with this? some people have reasons to be in the WA other then just wanting to stay. some need to protect their region against raiders. some want to make a change. some don't want a flat out ban on a really important part of their RP. if you don't want capital punishment, fine. abstain. but don't force it on people who may or may not have literal defined areas for hanging.

[Nova Anglo-Francia]

And I am not debating the gray area either. But I will advocate that fallible systems be bounded within fixable constraints. Life in prison is not exactly fixable either but it is far preferable to erroneous judiciaries encouraging state sanctioned murder.

Which is something I agree with, life sentences in prison are issued significantly higher in Nova Anglo-Francia than the death penalty. However, we wish to reserve the ability to condemn those who were sentenced with damning evidence to multiple murders, acts of terrorism, rape, and other crimes of this calibre. Therefore we use the ultimate potential penalty at the judiciary's disposal.

If this resolution was an attempt to limit or better define the appropriate applications of the Death Penalty, my vote may very well be different. As it stands, this is still an attempt to outright ban the Death Penalty, which I cannot possibly agree with.

Each nation already has the right to choose. Abide by WA legislation, or leave the WA.

The plan is not to abide by this resolution at all. By exercising our democratic privileges and ensuring it doesn't leave the floor.

[Grenartia]

Y tho?

If you want to revenge kill people, leave the WA. Simple as.

can we stop with this? some people have reasons to be in the WA other then just wanting to stay. some need to protect their region against raiders. some want to make a change. some don't want a flat out ban on a really important part of their RP. if you don't want capital punishment, fine. abstain. but don't force it on people who may or may not have literal defined areas for hanging.

Create a WA mission puppet and use that as the delegate. Doesn't harm RP at all. Or do creative noncompliance. Problem solved.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

The delegation of europeia has just voted and now the margin is down to 1000. It looks like it might go against but it's far from certain

[Typica]

Each nation already has the right to choose. Abide by WA legislation, or leave the WA.

The plan is not to abide by this resolution at all. By exercising our democratic privileges and ensuring it doesn't leave the floor.

It probably won't pass this week, or any time soon, which is unfortunate. But someday it will, and the world will be a better place when it does.

[Neo-Routhengard]

Y tho?

If you want to revenge kill people, leave the WA. Simple as.

can we stop with this? some people have reasons to be in the WA other then just wanting to stay. some need to protect their region against raiders. some want to make a change. some don't want a flat out ban on a really important part of their RP. if you don't want capital punishment, fine. abstain. but don't force it on people who may or may not have literal defined areas for hanging.

OOC: Basically this. Considering there are brutes like Sefy quoted here that might raid non-WA regions and call it a fair game because, yeah they are non-WA regions. The WA is the only game-mandated safe place here, and that's why as much as possible, although opinions on WA dispatches widely differ, they chose to stay.

I for one might have approved very strict regulations on the death penalty, as I see no reason in condemning to death those who can change anyway. Neo-Routhengard imposes a quite ridiculous ban on the death penalty except those of great national man-made disasters which is willfully done by the perpetrator, has declared his intentions as such on national and international TV, and if only the intentions were to just kill people just for pleasure. If there is even a smithereen of ideological reason why the perpetrator did as such, he will be only treated as a revolutionary, and as such, only sentenced to hard labor for the rest of his life.

[Typica]

It probably won't pass this week, or any time soon, which is unfortunate. But someday it will, and the world will be a better place when it does.

You resemble what is wrong with modern politics, only caring about orcing your side down other's throats. How disgusting.

I am only trying to do right by my fellow man. The only thing disgusting here is describing these debates as intractable sides and horrible metaphors.

[Sefy the Great]

I am only trying to do right by my fellow man. The only thing disgusting here is describing these debates as intractable sides and horrible metaphors.

This is why a lot of people hate globalism(Me not included):

Forcing your beliefs down tons of nations throats of sensitive issues, especially crime.

You folk seem to treat it like nations have no internal autonomy.

This is not an empire, people!

the day the WA federalizes into an empire is the day *insert anything here related to a dangerous pastime*

[Typica]

I am only trying to do right by my fellow man. The only thing disgusting here is describing these debates as intractable sides and horrible metaphors.

This is why a lot of people hate globalism(Me not included):

Forcing your beliefs down tons of nations throats of sensitive issues, especially crime.

You folk seem to treat it like nations have no internal autonomy.

This is not an empire, people!

No internal autonomy seems to me an extreme exaggeration. But it's reasonable disagreement among reasonable people. I appreciate limiting the rhetoric.

Also, "forcing your -blank- down -blank- throats", why is this meme so popular?

[Grenartia]

can we stop with this? some people have reasons to be in the WA other then just wanting to stay. some need to protect their region against raiders. some want to make a change. some don't want a flat out ban on a really important part of their RP. if you don't want capital punishment, fine. abstain. but don't force it on people who may or may not have literal defined areas for hanging.

OOC: Basically this. Considering there are brutes like Sefy quoted here that might raid non-WA regions and call it a fair game because, yeah they are non-WA regions. The WA is the only game-mandated safe place here, and that's why as much as possible, although opinions on WA dispatches widely differ, they chose to stay.

I for one might have approved very strict regulations on the death penalty, as I see no reason in condemning to death those who can change anyway. Neo-Routhengard imposes a quite ridiculous ban on the death penalty except those of great national man-made disasters which is willfully done by the perpetrator, has declared his intentions as such on national and international TV, and if only the intentions were to just kill people just for pleasure. If there is even a smithereen of ideological reason why the perpetrator did as such, he will be only treated as a revolutionary, and as such, only sentenced to hard labor for the rest of his life.

1. I resent being called a "brute".

2. There's no such thing as a non-WA region. Virtually all regions have a WA Delegate.

3. I'm not a raider, and in fact, I'm anti-raider.

4. The WA isn't, and has never been a safe place, in any way, shape, or form, nor was it ever intended to be.

[West Phoenicia]

“Let’s leave both your crappy exegesis out of this, and stick to law before I beat you to death with the Bible. We use the Catholic Bible in Tarsonis,...it’s heavier.

Ambassador, to paraphrase a beloved television program, doesn't the Bible have some specific words on the matter of killing?

"Im off to get a glass of champagne. To celebrate an early the defeat of this horrendous piece of legislation. Next the WA will be forcing the Confederate Empire of West Phoenicia to make vaccinations mandatory.

While I am gone dear ambassador, why dont you start with the Old Testament and its dealing of killing. Maybe start with the Amorities... Mmm i can taste those champagne bubbles now.

[Neo-Routhengard]

1. I resent being called a "brute".

2. There's no such thing as a non-WA region. Virtually all regions have a WA Delegate.

3. I'm not a raider, and in fact, I'm anti-raider.

4. The WA isn't, and has never been a safe place, in any way, shape, or form, nor was it ever intended to be.

1.If telling dissenting nations to leave the WA isn't an act of a brute, then I don't know what that is. I take great offense in that as you take an offense in being called like that.

2. I am quite new to both the WA and the game, so pardon my lack of knowledge in that aspect. So let me rephrase that a bit. Some nations and leaders of the regions in one side might take offense on the repeated dissent of a non-WA nation but a quite popular nation in spite of not being in the WA, and so raid his region.

3. I had thought that due to your attitude in handling dissent you had the tendency to raid dissenters' regions, so I apologize for that.

4. The WA might not be mandated like that, but due to the influence of the WA, for people with otherwise weak foundations might look up to WA like that. And also the power of condemnation by the single game-mandated high council would go a long way.

[Jocospor]

"Bullshit. The World Assembly is a direct democracy of nations, buddyboy. The majority of nations voted to legalize abortion and other policies you disagree with. Don't pretend the WA doesn't value democracy when 51% or more of the membership voted to enact those policies."

If the General Secretariat is capable of posting without including its much-loved crude and provocative language, heck, we of the Delegate's Office will eat our hats.

[Jocospor]

I think the fact that there is a sizeable, in fact, almost-winning minority in support for total abolition means that there is also room for stronger protections of innocents. Unless you support killing people for crimes they did not commit...

*the Delegate's Office rises to applaud* Ah, enter the central antagonist of our story, a nation so hungry for power that it would subject the entirety of the World Assembly to this current nonsense.

We know what you are, Imperium Anglorum. We've known for quite some time. Fortunately, though, now others are beginning to know too.

We eagerly await your downfall.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

1. I resent being called a "brute".

2. There's no such thing as a non-WA region. Virtually all regions have a WA Delegate.

3. I'm not a raider, and in fact, I'm anti-raider.

4. The WA isn't, and has never been a safe place, in any way, shape, or form, nor was it ever intended to be.

1.If telling dissenting nations to leave the WA isn't an act of a brute, then I don't know what that is. I take great offense in that as you take an offense in being called like that.

2. I am quite new to both the WA and the game, so pardon my lack of knowledge in that aspect. So let me rephrase that a bit. Some nations and leaders of the regions in one side might take offense on the repeated dissent of a non-WA nation but a quite popular nation in spite of not being in the WA, and so raid his region.

3. I had thought that due to your attitude in handling dissent you had the tendency to raid dissenters' regions, so I apologize for that.

4. The WA might not be mandated like that, but due to the influence of the WA, for people with otherwise weak foundations might look up to WA like that. And also the power of condemnation by the single game-mandated high council would go a long way.

If ur interested in drafting and passing a resolution or posting on the forum it's not a safe place.

[New Min]

"Bullshit. The World Assembly is a direct democracy of nations, buddyboy. The majority of nations voted to legalize abortion and other policies you disagree with. Don't pretend the WA doesn't value democracy when 51% or more of the membership voted to enact those policies."

If the General Secretariat is capable of posting without including its much-loved crude and provocative language, heck, we of the Delegate's Office will eat our hats.

OOC: Come on now, the comment is IC and is therefore made by the ambassador of SP and not by the GenSec.

[Jocospor]

If the General Secretariat is capable of posting without including its much-loved crude and provocative language, heck, we of the Delegate's Office will eat our hats.

OOC: Come on now, the comment is IC and is therefore made by the ambassador of SP and not by the GenSec.

Our appologies. We're just constantly amazed that some nations (with significant international standing, too) and their ambassadors can't find more eloquent ways to express themselves.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Bullshit. The World Assembly is a direct democracy of nations, buddyboy. The majority of nations voted to legalize abortion and other policies you disagree with. Don't pretend the WA doesn't value democracy when 51% or more of the membership voted to enact those policies."

If the General Secretariat is capable of posting without including its much-loved crude and provocative language, heck, we of the Delegate's Office will eat our hats.

Ooc: its cute how you dont know the difference between roleplay and OOC posting. My ambassador is often deliberately provocative. If you paid any attention to my posting history, you'd find a long character development to that end.

[Ragnaria]

"Sure, why not, to many holes in most common justice systems, I'd rather a guilty walk than an innocent die."

[The Sect Meces]

"The Sect Meces stands against this proposal, while we treat conformity as one of our most prized values, we shall not comply with resolutions that limit our ability to effectively stop and deter dissidents."

[The Federal District of Vice Santos]

The Ambassador for the Federal District of Vice Santos stand up once more.

“Earlier, I offered my full support to abolish capital punishment on the behalf of the FDVS. Allow me to elaborate further.

We are a capital punishment nation. We would not be bothered if it went away. We do not think that the WA is overstepping its bounds to abolish capital punishment across the globe. Need we remain the nations in this Assembly that capital punishment is not the only methods to deal with crime. Corporal punishment, prisons, and disappearances are among the options that the state can employ, and this is not even accounting the rights of various religious groups to sacrifice a living being, as well as to execute them. Those nations that are opposed to this bill, and yet have abolished human sacrifice and religious execution in their own nations, do not feel bothered that they imposed their will on another group that may not have wanted that. Their hypocrisy is astounding. If they truly cared about the liberty of sovereign bodies to make their own decisions, then they would allow the various religious groups in their respective nations to make their own decision.

We allow capital punishment in our nation, and these religious groups rarely employ it, as they have come to the same conclusion of the state: that mistakes happen and the wrong person can be executed. And they support us in the abolition of capital punishment. And those very few religious groups in our nation that disagree understand that they have a constitutional right in our nation to continue, even if it this bill passed. So, we ask the members of this Assembly to realize that this isn’t a violation of national sovereignty and to pass this bill so that no more innocents are executed.”

[Jocospor]

If the General Secretariat is capable of posting without including its much-loved crude and provocative language, heck, we of the Delegate's Office will eat our hats.

Ooc: its cute how you dont know the difference between roleplay and OOC posting. My ambassador is often deliberately provocative. If you paid any attention to my posting history, you'd find a long character development to that end.

Implying anyone within the Confederation actually wants to pay attention to your posting history. From what we have (unfortunately) stumbled across, however, we're surprised that you continue to employ such an...outspoken ambassador in your service.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: its cute how you dont know the difference between roleplay and OOC posting. My ambassador is often deliberately provocative. If you paid any attention to my posting history, you'd find a long character development to that end.

Implying anyone within the Confederation actually wants to pay attention to your posting history. From what we have (unfortunately) stumbled across, however, we're surprised that you continue to employ such an...outspoken ambassador in your service.

Ooc: if you noted the posting history, you'd know why. Since you wont, I'm not inclined to recap the better part of a decade of character development. Until then, your incredulity your problem.

[Hyperbanus]

For a long time, we Hyperbanusians have tried to build a humanitarian nation. From a very early age, we teach our youngsters that life is precious. We believe in education over punishment, we believe in second chances. Our judicial system itself has abolished death penalty, so why to vote against a policy that bans this kind of punishment all over the North Pacific? Because we also believe in the self determination of every individual and every nation.
Yes, the voices that call (and recall) the mistakes made in judiciary systems that has sent an innocent person to the grave speak the truth and never must be silenced nor forgotten. They are right when they say that a man can be released from prison but never brought back to life. And yes, we acknowledge that some people can avoid a very deserved final sentence thanks to very expensive "legal" services, and therefore is not a fair game for the poorest citizens, but all those issues and more are to each nation to ponder about.
Please, never forget that every nation has its own ideology and lives its own situations. We may not agree on the way that our neighbor deals with its problems, but "my rights end where yours begin". Remember that, harsh as it sounds, there are some places, moments and situations that call for a decisive action, and if that decision was justified or not, if was just or not, it is the cross to bear of whoever took it. Only that person and no one else. So, in that spirit we Hyperbanus try to be respectful with our North Pacific fellow countries and vote to preserve your very deserved self determination, which should be the cornerstone of every nation.

[True Spain]

Against. I would support regulating death penalty, but certainly not its complete abolition. Reasoning as follows:

Most criminals are able to pursue rehabilitation, and it should be attempted first and above any other possible options. I personally would defend even social work + rehab for all non-violent criminals without even making them go to prison, and keeping imprisonment only for those that would attempt to escape or that could harm others while they are being rehabilitated.

However, there are genuine pieces of crap out there. Serial murderers, rapists, terrorists, child molesters, human traffickers. Pieces of crap so, so far away from conventional morality that, no matter what you do to them, they will always be putting others at risk.

Some people think that the state has failed if it puts an innocent to death. I think that the state has failed if it lets a known criminal of the aforementioned categories ruin more lives when putting them out on the street/escaping/whatever.

Nobody is saying that death penalty should be used all willy-nilly, but I do believe it has a place in cases where criminal evidence is overwhelming, the crime committed horrendous and the possibility of rehabilitation close to zero. If an identified piece of crap harms my family or friends after being convicted, the state has failed me, and the same goes for all my fellow citizens.

There is only one prison that nobody has ever been able to escape to hurt others ever again. Guess which one.