NATION

PASSWORD

[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:00 am

"I'm not sure how this would make it unenforceable in the so-called "haven."
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:11 am

Uan aa Boa wrote:In clause 3 "in line" should be two words. Otherwise, this looks great and I think it's ready to go.

Thanks, Uan, for all the help. <3


Barring further objection, this will be submitted @ major.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Uan aa Boa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 770
Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uan aa Boa » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:34 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:"The revised version would be unenforceable in the Greater Vakolicci Haven. The Havenic central courts, in Iros, which try criminals accused of federal crimes (largely treason and corporate offenses) does not practice the death penalty. However most criminal matters are handled by provincial courts, which the Havenic constitution prohibits the federal government from regulating. Changing this constitution would invariably result in the Haven ceasing to be: Celeria is not going to drop slavery, Velstrania will never allow it within its borders; Vrarna will never allow for private mercenary forces to operate from its territory, and the corporate states will not forego such a lucrative source of income."

Since the Haven is clearly not compliant with GA#23 Ban on Slavery and Trafficking and GA#37 Fairness in Criminal Trials you can add this proposal to the list when it passes.

United Massachusetts wrote:Thanks, Uan, for all the help. <3

You're welcome, it's a fine thing you're doing here.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18386
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:39 am

Uan aa Boa wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:"The revised version would be unenforceable in the Greater Vakolicci Haven. The Havenic central courts, in Iros, which try criminals accused of federal crimes (largely treason and corporate offenses) does not practice the death penalty. However most criminal matters are handled by provincial courts, which the Havenic constitution prohibits the federal government from regulating. Changing this constitution would invariably result in the Haven ceasing to be: Celeria is not going to drop slavery, Velstrania will never allow it within its borders; Vrarna will never allow for private mercenary forces to operate from its territory, and the corporate states will not forego such a lucrative source of income."

Since the Haven is clearly not compliant with GA#23 Ban on Slavery and Trafficking and GA#37 Fairness in Criminal Trials you can add this proposal to the list when it passes.

OOC
Also GA#2, which says that member nations can't use their constitutions as justification for non-compliance...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Omicron Convenience IV
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: May 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Omicron Convenience IV » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:26 pm

Haven's claims are literally impossible. It is not possible to fail to comply with WA resolutions, it is automatic and completely effective. Claims to the contrary should be dismissed, because they are necessarily wrong.
Required reading: Source Seriously?

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4771
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:07 am

Omicron Convenience IV wrote:Haven's claims are literally impossible. It is not possible to fail to comply with WA resolutions, it is automatic and completely effective. Claims to the contrary should be dismissed, because they are necessarily wrong.

(OOC: This is not considered true, as there have been passed resolutions that specifically mention the consequences of noncompliance, most currently the Administrative Compliance Act. Although it is often seen as poor roleplaying to ignore GA legislation, it can be done well and is by no means impossible.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Omicron Convenience IV
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: May 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Omicron Convenience IV » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:35 am

Acknowledging the consequences of noncompliance is immaterial. 'If false, do this' does not in fact have any effects, because the 'this' part is never executed. I certainly won't try to detract from roleplay by arguing that it should not be permissible to make these enforcement mechanisms. It also is probably beneficial for IC consistency.

That does not change, however, the fact that compliance is mandatory and that the enforcement systems are unnecessary. And if you really want to quote resolutions, then go here, because 'each WA member nation ensures that crimes outlawed within WA legislation are appropriately pursued and prosecuted within their sovereign territory'. Compliance is mandatory, and the game mechanics make it impossible to fail to comply. Haven's claims are not viable.
Required reading: Source Seriously?

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Ru-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1079
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ru- » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:10 pm

OOC: the stat changes and game mechanics are unavoidable, the rp implications are extremely avoidable, which is why ACA was written in the first place. Many players do not give a fig about stats and mechanics because they are RP players who log onto the site just to RP their nation. Everything you said is true, but it only focuses on the game mechanics. Which are not close to being everything the WA is about.
Last edited by Ru- on Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A civilization with an over 3,000 year history of lizard people killing each other and enslaving everyone else. Now they've finally calmed down and formed a modern westernized constitutional monarchy. (long live King Yoshio!)
Still with Her.

----> King Yoshio Q&A Thread! <----
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A Cornstar
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby A Cornstar » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:37 pm

Regarding the author's religious inspiration, I would like to remind my esteemed brother of Genesis 9:6, Acts 25:10-11, and Romans 13:1-4.
In any case my nation RP is that our society is entirely militarized; we'll just formally declare war on crime.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Political Compass-Economic:2.5, Social:5.08
"I don't know everything, I just know better."
I use some NS stats, Uses the Royal We IC
"You see I recently came to realize that I too suffer from a disability. It's called G.W.S., Good Workers Syndrome. I get sick to my stomach unless every one around me is giving 110%. The symptoms include pride, responsibility , and a feverish enthusiasm. It used to be a common condition among Americans." -Hank Hill.

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Cosmopolitan borovan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1033
Founded: Jan 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:39 pm

Looks like in queue. Going to support

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A Cornstar
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby A Cornstar » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:16 am

Even if this passes, so will the repeal. Just like with last year's same-sex. marriage debate.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Political Compass-Economic:2.5, Social:5.08
"I don't know everything, I just know better."
I use some NS stats, Uses the Royal We IC
"You see I recently came to realize that I too suffer from a disability. It's called G.W.S., Good Workers Syndrome. I get sick to my stomach unless every one around me is giving 110%. The symptoms include pride, responsibility , and a feverish enthusiasm. It used to be a common condition among Americans." -Hank Hill.

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:47 am

A cornstar wrote:Regarding the author's religious inspiration, I would like to remind my esteemed brother of Genesis 9:6, Acts 25:10-11, and Romans 13:1-4.
In any case my nation RP is that our society is entirely militarized; we'll just formally declare war on crime.

I would like to remind my brother equally that the risen Lord himself was a victim of the execution of the innocent, and his life would appear to indicate opposition to the very notion of "eye for an eye" justice. This is particularly noteworthy considering that Jesus himself publicly thwarted an execution, claiming that only he without sin should throw stones at the adulterer.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

User avatar
A Cornstar
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby A Cornstar » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:44 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
A cornstar wrote:Regarding the author's religious inspiration, I would like to remind my esteemed brother of Genesis 9:6, Acts 25:10-11, and Romans 13:1-4.
In any case my nation RP is that our society is entirely militarized; we'll just formally declare war on crime.

I would like to remind my brother equally that the risen Lord himself was a victim of the execution of the innocent, and his life would appear to indicate opposition to the very notion of "eye for an eye" justice. This is particularly noteworthy considering that Jesus himself publicly thwarted an execution, claiming that only he without sin should throw stones at the adulterer.


On the first two points I can only agree, though not with the implication that capitol punishment need be primarily retributive. On the matter of the adultress, I'd call it a difference in interpretation.
My belief in the death penalty is based on the view of nations as like organic bodies, though I could conceive of it becoming totally unjust in a post scarcity scenario.
Last edited by A Cornstar on Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Political Compass-Economic:2.5, Social:5.08
"I don't know everything, I just know better."
I use some NS stats, Uses the Royal We IC
"You see I recently came to realize that I too suffer from a disability. It's called G.W.S., Good Workers Syndrome. I get sick to my stomach unless every one around me is giving 110%. The symptoms include pride, responsibility , and a feverish enthusiasm. It used to be a common condition among Americans." -Hank Hill.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18386
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:19 am

United Massachusetts wrote:[quote="A cornstar";p="34582113"I would like to remind my brother equally that the risen Lord himself was a victim of the execution of the innocent

OOC; But wasn't that supposed to be a part of God's plan, and necessary?
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Capa Virieglia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Aug 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Capa Virieglia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:09 am

So, basically we have to keep our prisoners in the cells, feed them, comfort them. Taxpayers won't be happy. Why should our single coin be wasted on these kinds of people?

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18386
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:28 am

Capa Virieglia wrote:So, basically we have to keep our prisoners in the cells, feed them, comfort them.

And if they're Bears then that prolonged captivity would almost certainly drive them hopelessly insane, in one or more ways, making execution -- as long as the methods usable are sensibly limited -- actually the more merciful option...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4771
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:52 am

Capa Virieglia wrote:So, basically we have to keep our prisoners in the cells, feed them, comfort them. Taxpayers won't be happy. Why should our single coin be wasted on these kinds of people?

“Not comfort them. Just feed them the bare minimum to allow them to live and keep them in a cell just short of psychological torture.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Thyerata
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 408
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Thyerata » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:04 am

IC
The Federal Republic objects to this proposal as an interference on states' rights. Our Constitution guarantees to every person the right to life
(1) Subject to the provisions of Section 22bis, every person has the right to life. The State shall not arbitrarily deprive any person in its jurisdiction of their lives, except as provided in Section 22bis. It shall have an active duty to protect life of any person within its jurisdiction, including the lives of its armed forces when on deployment.
(2) Subject to section 22bis, the State may not derogate from, limit, or restrict this right in any way. Furthermore, it is subject to the “eternity” provisions in Part V of this Constitution
. As is clear, the Constitution expressly envisages an exception to this right. Section 22bis contains our procedural rules on the death penalty, which in relevant part are as follows
(1) Sentence of Death shall be a competent penalty in criminal matters, subject to the provisions of subsequent paragraphs in this section.
(2) a Court may only impose sentence of death for the following offences:
(a) Murder
(b) Crimes against humanity
(c) War crimes
(d) Genocide
The offences listed in subsubsections (b) to (d) shall be justiciable in the State, solely at the Federal level, due to the State’s obligations enumerated in section 20, and the doctrine of universal jurisdiction. Consequently these offences are part of the Federal criminal law, notwithstanding the provisions of Section 8(3)(d) and the Parliament’s powers therein. As such, Parliament may not repeal any jurisdiction in respect of crimes against humanity, war crimes, or genocide.
. Later provisions of that Section establish fundamental guarantees to proect the rights of those against whom the State is seeking sentence of death - for example, the Prosecution must prove aggravating factors beyond a reasonable doubt, and there is an automatic right of appeal to an Autonomous Supreme Court or the Federal Supreme Court, depending on who sentenced the defendant. We believe that these provisions provide robust protections of an accused person's rights.

OOC
I've done international human rights and I know that hte DP is not the best punishment in the world. It's arbitrary, can go horribly wrong and - forgive the pun - is dying a slow death in America because of a decreasing supply of drugs. Since the GA is primarily IC, however, I would vote based on my IC comments above.
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather Ph.D. (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay man with an LLM, mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8724
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:35 am

ELSIE MORTIMER WELLESLEY: Perchance, have you read GA 2?

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate

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Thyerata
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 408
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Thyerata » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:19 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:ELSIE MORTIMER WELLESLEY: Perchance, have you read GA 2?


*Matthew reads GAR 2*
*Matthew shrugs* So?

OOC: I know that, for game mechanics purposes, Resolutions are instantly binding and I don't doubt that, but I think there is a growing trend for RPing non-compliance...
From the Desk of the Honourable Matthew Merriweather Ph.D. (Law, 2040) LLM Public and International Law, 2036) LLB Law (2035) (all from Thyerata State University)
Thytian Ambassador to the World Assembly and Security Council

I'm a gay man with an LLM, mild Asperger syndrome and only one functioning eye. My IC posts may reflect this, so please be aware

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20034
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:24 pm

Thyerata wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:ELSIE MORTIMER WELLESLEY: Perchance, have you read GA 2?


*Matthew reads GAR 2*
*Matthew shrugs* So?

OOC: I know that, for game mechanics purposes, Resolutions are instantly binding and I don't doubt that, but I think there is a growing trend for RPing non-compliance...

OOC: No, there isn't. At the very least, try to actually be creative, instead of saying "lol, fuck off I do what I want".
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14306
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Thyerata wrote:
*Matthew reads GAR 2*
*Matthew shrugs* So?

OOC: I know that, for game mechanics purposes, Resolutions are instantly binding and I don't doubt that, but I think there is a growing trend for RPing non-compliance...

OOC: No, there isn't. At the very least, try to actually be creative, instead of saying "lol, fuck off I do what I want".

OOC: to clarify, creative as in creative compliance and generating interesting roleplay. Not just coming up with new and innovative ways to say "but we don't do this." I can spend all day coming up with justifications about why one ignores resolutions. Its dead easy. Creative compliance or generating good roleplay? Thats tricky.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence and Chief Populist Elitist


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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20034
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:28 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:OOC: No, there isn't. At the very least, try to actually be creative, instead of saying "lol, fuck off I do what I want".

OOC: to clarify, creative as in creative compliance and generating interesting roleplay. Not just coming up with new and innovative ways to say "but we don't do this." I can spend all day coming up with justifications about why one ignores resolutions. Its dead easy. Creative compliance or generating good roleplay? Thats tricky.

OOC: I, being the tolerant, bleeding-heart softie that I am, can even accept well-roleplayed noncompliance. However, it's lazy and rather insulting to the community for people to go around saying "lol, nope" to resolutions they don't like.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Republica comunista del Sur
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Say NO.

Postby Republica comunista del Sur » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:31 pm

Strongly disagree, capital punishment must remain the solution to end criminality.

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Capa Virieglia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Aug 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Capa Virieglia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:03 pm

This ain't "furtherment of human rights", this should be called "Ban mercy of clean death." Cause this is what it is.

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