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[PASSED] Protecting Free Expression

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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United States of Americanas
Envoy
 
Posts: 328
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby United States of Americanas » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Retracted
Last edited by United States of Americanas on Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Political Compass as of Jul 17 2022

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15



Damn right I’m a liberal democratic socialist. I sit in the ranks of Caroline Lucas

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22872
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:26 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:PER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICANAS ALL SPEECH IS FREE. THIS LAW VIOLATES THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND AS SUCH SHALL BE STRICKEN FROM THE RECORDS.

Rights And Duties Of WA States wrote:Every WA Member State has the duty to carry out in good faith its obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law, including this World Assembly, and it may not invoke provisions in its constitution or its laws as an excuse for failure to perform this duty.

No, you won't.
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy, Protector of the Realm

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13701
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:00 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:this draconian controlling law that allows countries to step on its citizens rights.

GA#436 only "Permits" its members to regulate free expression, rather than mandate it. From my understanding, it is totally legal to not impose any regulations on free expression in one's country - beyond that required by other GA resolutions - whilst still complying with GA#436. ;)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
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United States of Americanas
Envoy
 
Posts: 328
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby United States of Americanas » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:11 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:this draconian controlling law that allows countries to step on its citizens rights.

GA#436 only "Permits" its members to regulate free expression, rather than mandate it. From my understanding, it is totally legal to not impose any regulations on free expression in one's country - beyond that required by other GA resolutions - whilst still complying with GA#436. ;)


Thanks for your polite reply. Wallenburg on the other hand shall remain blocked.

If you’re gonna go acting like a suit from a new world order forcing everyone to act your way then you can get lost!

If the WA it’s self has a problem with how my government is run then the WA administrators themselves can either contact me or eject my nation from the WA. But I shall not have some no name diplomat from another nation who isn’t a WA staffer ordering how I shall run my country!

So far the only proposal I have rejected compliance with is 436 and technically it’s optional to begin with. So my refusal is simply be confirming that I am leaving those rights to my constitution and states to decide. It doe world order!
Last edited by United States of Americanas on Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Political Compass as of Jul 17 2022

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15



Damn right I’m a liberal democratic socialist. I sit in the ranks of Caroline Lucas

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 27796
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Capitalizt

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:15 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:Wallenburg on the other hand shall remain blocked.

If you’re gonna go acting like a suit from a new world order forcing everyone to act your way then you can fuck off in my book!

Blocking is the appropriate action. Telling someone to fuck off is *** flaming ***, and you are warned accordingly.

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United States of Americanas
Envoy
 
Posts: 328
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby United States of Americanas » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:16 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:Wallenburg on the other hand shall remain blocked.

If you’re gonna go acting like a suit from a new world order forcing everyone to act your way then you can fuck off in my book!

Blocking is the appropriate action. Telling someone to fuck off is *** flaming ***, and you are warned accordingly.


Edited the post before I even saw this.

Frankly. The only reason I got involved with WA was so that the North Pacific and the whole click to endorse thing would work for them. I’m not here to participate in some artificial new world order.
Last edited by United States of Americanas on Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Political Compass as of Jul 17 2022

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15



Damn right I’m a liberal democratic socialist. I sit in the ranks of Caroline Lucas

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 27796
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Capitalizt

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:23 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:If the WA it’s self has a problem with how my government is run then the WA administrators themselves can either contact me or eject my nation from the WA. But I shall not have some no name diplomat from another nation who isn’t a WA staffer ordering how I shall run my country!

The "no name diplomat" was simply informing you of how the game works. See the WA FAQ and GAR #2 for the reasons:
The WA FAQ wrote:What's the World Assembly?

The World Assembly is the world's governing body. It's your chance to mold the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will be affected by any resolutions that pass. (Unfortunately you can't obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest.) In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

WA membership is not mandatory, but once you join, compliance is assumed to be mandatory. Nobody is going to eject you for failure to comply, but you can expect quite a bit of negative feedback when you announce your non-compliance. Or you can resign. Either way, you need to get off your high horse about it.
Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:31 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:PER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICANAS ALL SPEECH IS FREE. THIS LAW VIOLATES THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND AS SUCH SHALL BE STRICKEN FROM THE RECORDS.

Rights And Duties Of WA States wrote:Every WA Member State has the duty to carry out in good faith its obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law, including this World Assembly, and it may not invoke provisions in its constitution or its laws as an excuse for failure to perform this duty.

No, you won't.

Also no it doesn't, nothing in this resolution contravenes the first amendment. In fact it upholds it as an international standard.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:53 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:If the WA it’s self has a problem with how my government is run then the WA administrators themselves can either contact me or eject my nation from the WA. But I shall not have some no name diplomat from another nation who isn’t a WA staffer ordering how I shall run my country!

The "no name diplomat" was simply informing you of how the game works. See the WA FAQ and GAR #2 for the reasons:
The WA FAQ wrote:What's the World Assembly?

The World Assembly is the world's governing body. It's your chance to mold the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will be affected by any resolutions that pass. (Unfortunately you can't obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest.) In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

WA membership is not mandatory, but once you join, compliance is assumed to be mandatory. Nobody is going to eject you for failure to comply, but you can expect quite a bit of negative feedback when you announce your non-compliance. Or you can resign. Either way, you need to get off your high horse about it.

Find it pretty likely that both he, and the nameless diplomat, were speaking in character.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:06 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:Thanks for your polite reply. Wallenburg on the other hand shall remain blocked.

OOC: I promise you, Wallenburg won't feel like he's missing out. Nor would any of the rest of the regulars here. :roll: We don't care for noncompliant roleplay of this kind. It isn't interesting or original, its just obstructionist. If you don't like a law, find a loophole you can exploit in good faith, repeal it, or resign from the WA. Noncompliance is only tolerated when done with skill and creativity, and even then only barely.

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:14 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:Thanks for your polite reply. Wallenburg on the other hand shall remain blocked.

OOC: I promise you, Wallenburg won't feel like he's missing out. Nor would any of the rest of the regulars here. :roll: We don't care for noncompliant roleplay of this kind. It isn't interesting or original, its just obstructionist. If you don't like a law, find a loophole you can exploit in good faith, repeal it, or resign from the WA. Noncompliance is only tolerated when done with skill and creativity, and even then only barely.

I only do it because I rp the GVH as a failing state whose provinces are now pretty much self-governing.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Azadistan-land of the free
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1552
Founded: May 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Azadistan-land of the free » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:33 am

Would hate speech come under the defamation exception?

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Premiora
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Aug 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Premiora » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:31 am

Azadistan-land of the free wrote:Would hate speech come under the defamation exception?


I believe so if the hate speech has no direct impact on the publicity / reputation of the target. If not then I believe not.

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Liberimery
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 402
Founded: May 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Liberimery » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:07 am

Premiora wrote:
Azadistan-land of the free wrote:Would hate speech come under the defamation exception?


I believe so if the hate speech has no direct impact on the publicity / reputation of the target. If not then I believe not.


Interesting little legal read. I'd like to see a likely scenario.

I would say that this doesn't cover hate crimes (i.e. If you can prove that protected status was a motivator of criminal actions, you can charge a hate crime charge on top of regular criminal charges. But just calling someone a slur does not count). It also does not nullify discrimination in hiring or admissions or work place practices.

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Azadistan-land of the free
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1552
Founded: May 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Azadistan-land of the free » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:05 am

Liberimery wrote:
Premiora wrote:
I believe so if the hate speech has no direct impact on the publicity / reputation of the target. If not then I believe not.


Interesting little legal read. I'd like to see a likely scenario.

I would say that this doesn't cover hate crimes (i.e. If you can prove that protected status was a motivator of criminal actions, you can charge a hate crime charge on top of regular criminal charges. But just calling someone a slur does not count). It also does not nullify discrimination in hiring or admissions or work place practices.

The article did say defamation and interfering with a fair trial are not protected free speech and thats what hate crime is.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:10 am

Azadistan-land of the free wrote:
Liberimery wrote:
Interesting little legal read. I'd like to see a likely scenario.

I would say that this doesn't cover hate crimes (i.e. If you can prove that protected status was a motivator of criminal actions, you can charge a hate crime charge on top of regular criminal charges. But just calling someone a slur does not count). It also does not nullify discrimination in hiring or admissions or work place practices.

The article did say defamation and interfering with a fair trial are not protected free speech and thats what hate crime is.

"Hate speech does not necessarily interfere with fair trials."

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:28 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Azadistan-land of the free wrote:The article did say defamation and interfering with a fair trial are not protected free speech and thats what hate crime is.

"Hate speech does not necessarily interfere with fair trials."

Hate speech is a fiction made up by people with agendas to push.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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