[DEFEATED] Liberate The Conservative Christians

[St Theordos]

The world factbook of the conservative christians says: "This once neo-Calvinist, homophobic, anti-environmentalist, anti-liberal, elitist, and pro-Trump region has been seized in the name of Zealasia, and is awaiting destruction."

Nakayo is an environmentalist, left-wing, anti-trump nation. But we don't support seizing regions. zealasia should be condemned for the next Security Counsel Resolution. Though only, of course, if they don't consider this a trophy.

The bio has been put there by Aspies themselves and does not neccessarily reflect my views or indeed the views of many previous nation. While I can't speak for every individual that resided in TCC, we had a large amount of diverse opinions in our heyday, with a range of different Christian denominations (thus negating the Neo-Calvinist label) and political opinions represented. While we were mostly Conservative (as the name suggests), we had a variety of opinions, as above all, our members strongly believed in the First Amendment and the rights for all for Free Speech.

It is truly telling that Zealasia has to resort to lies in order to both oversimplify and mischaracterise the position of our region.

(As for the environment, I am extremely supportive of conservation both in-game and irl)

[Zealasia]

[Nakayo]

The world factbook of the conservative christians says: "This once neo-Calvinist, homophobic, anti-environmentalist, anti-liberal, elitist, and pro-Trump region has been seized in the name of Zealasia, and is awaiting destruction."

Nakayo is an environmentalist, left-wing, anti-trump nation. But we don't support seizing regions. zealasia should be condemned for the next Security Counsel Resolution. Though only, of course, if they don't consider this a trophy.

The bio has been put there by Aspies themselves and does not neccessarily reflect my views or indeed the views of many previous nation. While I can't speak for every individual that resided in TCC, we had a large amount of diverse opinions in our heyday, with a range of different Christian denominations (thus negating the Neo-Calvinist label) and political opinions represented. While we were mostly Conservative (as the name suggests), we had a variety of opinions, as above all, our members strongly believed in the First Amendment and the rights for all for Free Speech.

It is truly telling that Zealasia has to resort to lies in order to both oversimplify and mischaracterise the position of our region.

(As for the environment, I am extremely supportive of conservation both in-game and irl)

I know that this has been written there by Aspies. Yet even if this was true Nakayo would support liberation. Extreme left-wing doesn't need to go hand in hand with terrorism.

Just got a telegram from the puppetmaster himself, he doesn't feel notorious enough for a condemnation. Cute.

[Hessere]

Finally, an actual liberation

Support

It's been a long time since the "Liberation Wars", I think you can let down your guard about now.

[MegaLand Union]

The world factbook of the conservative christians says: "This once neo-Calvinist, homophobic, anti-environmentalist, anti-liberal, elitist, and pro-Trump region has been seized in the name of Zealasia, and is awaiting destruction."

Nakayo is an environmentalist, left-wing, anti-trump nation. But we don't support seizing regions. zealasia shouldn't be condemned though, he doesn't feel notorious enough.

Well, I feel the same, though I'm undecided about liberation, and zealasia should be condemned

[Northwestinghamshire]

At some point, after the inevitable flurry of raids by multiple regions, this liberation will be repealed. I shall bide my time in the wings. This region will at some point join my other trophies. That is its destiny. In the meantime, I have plenty of other fish to fry.

Freedom shall triumph. Northwestinghamshire on behalf of PENTAC proudly votes Yes

[Isvataan]

At some point, after the inevitable flurry of raids by multiple regions, this liberation will be repealed. I shall bide my time in the wings. This region will at some point join my other trophies. That is its destiny. In the meantime, I have plenty of other fish to fry.

Freedom shall triumph. Northwestinghamshire on behalf of PENTAC proudly votes Yes

Lets hope so though just looking at the against votes, this could be a close one

[Prydania]

The world factbook of the conservative christians says: "This once neo-Calvinist, homophobic, anti-environmentalist, anti-liberal, elitist, and pro-Trump region has been seized in the name of Zealasia, and is awaiting destruction."

Nakayo is an environmentalist, left-wing, anti-trump nation. But we don't support seizing regions. zealasia should be condemned for the next Security Counsel Resolution. Though only, of course, if they don't consider this a trophy.

The bio has been put there by Aspies themselves and does not neccessarily reflect my views or indeed the views of many previous nation. While I can't speak for every individual that resided in TCC, we had a large amount of diverse opinions in our heyday, with a range of different Christian denominations (thus negating the Neo-Calvinist label) and political opinions represented. While we were mostly Conservative (as the name suggests), we had a variety of opinions, as above all, our members strongly believed in the First Amendment and the rights for all for Free Speech.

It is truly telling that Zealasia has to resort to lies in order to both oversimplify and mischaracterise the position of our region.

(As for the environment, I am extremely supportive of conservation both in-game and irl)

Well that’s nice. I like the environment too

That being said...I have no desire to help homophobes. Yes, you have both freedom of speech and freedom of conscience.
I’m not trying to force you to change your beliefs. Believe what you want. I am not oblidged to support you or those beliefs, however.

Combine that with the very real and practical experience I have with Christian denominations who are welcoming of LGBT+ people? And I see no reason to support this liberation.

Again, feel free to hold whatever beliefs you like. Just don’t expect those you descriminate against to jump to your aid when you need it.

[RiderSyl]

I'm not keen on letting a region become a trophy because of the possibility that the accusations of its captor may be true. Until there's reasonable proof that TCC was the den of homophobia that Zealasia says it was on its WFE, my vote is FOR.

I'm also not keen on letting Zealasia continue to successfully pull off these anti-religion "raids".

[Nakayo]

The world factbook of the conservative christians says: "This once neo-Calvinist, homophobic, anti-environmentalist, anti-liberal, elitist, and pro-Trump region has been seized in the name of Zealasia, and is awaiting destruction."

Nakayo is an environmentalist, left-wing, anti-trump nation. But we don't support seizing regions. zealasia shouldn't be condemned though, he doesn't feel notorious enough.

Well, I feel the same, though I'm undecided about liberation, and zealasia should be condemned

I said this too at first, that zealasia should be condemned. But I got a telegram from him saying I should delete that post because he didn't deserve the notoriety of a condemnation. Hence I changed it to "shouldn't be condemned though, he doesn't feel notorious enough."

I'd say keep an eye on your mailbox and prepare to shiver.

[Nakayo]

I see that many people vote against this resolution because they don't agree with the values of the conservative christians. Let's all remember that the Security Council's purpose is not to condemn regions and nations for their values and stances. Its purpose is to keep the world safe by condemning those that seize and raid, commending those that protect and contribute to defence and liberate those seized.

[Prydania]

I see that many people vote against this resolution because they don't agree with the values of the conservative christians. Let's all remember that the Security Council's purpose is not to condemn regions and nations for their values and stances. Its purpose is to keep the world safe by condemning those that seize and raid, commending those that protect and contribute to defence and liberate those seized.

I’m not condemning Conservative Christians or anyone in it. I’m just not supporting the effort to liberate them. There’s a difference.

[Nakayo]

I see that many people vote against this resolution because they don't agree with the values of the conservative christians. Let's all remember that the Security Council's purpose is not to condemn regions and nations for their values and stances. Its purpose is to keep the world safe by condemning those that seize and raid, commending those that protect and contribute to defence and liberate those seized.

I’m not condemning Conservative Christians or anyone in it. I’m just not supporting the effort to liberate them. There’s a difference.

Excuse me, might be my choice of words here. I realize that condemning is a game mechanic that is associated with, well, actual condemnation.
What I meant is that voting against isn't right here, we don't even know if these people were/are actually anti-LGBT. Also, by voting against, the signal you send out is that you are FOR raids.
I couldn't agree more with you, truly - about the fact that anti-LGBT values are wrong. This liberation doesn't serve to express our opinions though. The right thing to do here is to liberate a seized region, as it is what the Security Council is for.

I respect your opinion of course, (even) if you don't change your mind.

[Prydania]

I respect your opinion of course, if you don't change your mind.

Thank you. Rest assured, the sentiment is mutual

I’m not condemning Conservative Christians or anyone in it. I’m just not supporting the effort to liberate them. There’s a difference.

Excuse me, might be my choice of words here. I realize that condemning is a game mechanic that is associated with, well, actual condemnation.
What I meant is that voting against isn't right here, we don't even know if these people were/are actually anti-LGBT. Also, by voting against, the signal you send out is that you are FOR raids.
I couldn't agree more with you, truly - about the fact that anti-LGBT values are wrong. This liberation doesn't serve to express our opinions though. The right thing to do here is to liberate a seized region, as it is what the Security Council is for.

I admit this isn’t a common view, but I view things on a case by case basis.
I don’t support raiding, but I don’t support defending either. I view it all as gameplay and who I feel is worthy of Condemnation or Liberation depends on the content of their character and in-game accomplishments. What side of the Raider/Defender line they fall on doesn’t concern me so much.

Hell, I take this approach with extreme measures too. I support offensive liberations against Nazi and fascist regions because I honestly feel they poison this gameplay community by their presence.
That being said? I would wholeheartedly disapprove of such an extreme measure being directed against a region like Conservative Christians, in the event that they weren’t under occupation. I may disagree with them on a number of issues, but I don’t feel like they need to be opposed like Nazis and fascists do.

Truth be told? I would be content letting Conservative Christians do their thing on their own time.
That doesn’t mean, however, that I’m going to rush to their aid.

[Frisbeeteria]

ILet's all remember that the Security Council's purpose is not to condemn regions and nations for their values and stances. Its purpose is to keep the world safe by condemning those that seize and raid, commending those that protect and contribute to defence and liberate those seized.

Incorrect. The Security Council's purpose is whatever players decide it should be. It's the quasi-democracy of WA voting. Convince players and Delegates to vote for something, and that becomes the purpose.

[Aclion]

"A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary."

[Caeiress]

Bigots crying foul when they reap the rewards of their actions?

Neg on that, chummer.

Against.

[Nakayo]

I respect your opinion of course, if you don't change your mind.

Thank you. Rest assured, the sentiment is mutual

Excuse me, might be my choice of words here. I realize that condemning is a game mechanic that is associated with, well, actual condemnation.
What I meant is that voting against isn't right here, we don't even know if these people were/are actually anti-LGBT. Also, by voting against, the signal you send out is that you are FOR raids.
I couldn't agree more with you, truly - about the fact that anti-LGBT values are wrong. This liberation doesn't serve to express our opinions though. The right thing to do here is to liberate a seized region, as it is what the Security Council is for.

I admit this isn’t a common view, but I view things on a case by case basis.
I don’t support raiding, but I don’t support defending either. I view it all as gameplay and who I feel is worthy of Condemnation or Liberation depends on the content of their character and in-game accomplishments. What side of the Raider/Defender line they fall on doesn’t concern me so much.

Hell, I take this approach with extreme measures too. I support offensive liberations against Nazi and fascist regions because I honestly feel they poison this gameplay community by their presence.
That being said? I would wholeheartedly disapprove of such an extreme measure being directed against a region like Conservative Christians, in the event that they weren’t under occupation. I may disagree with them on a number of issues, but I don’t feel like they need to be opposed like Nazis and fascists do.

Truth be told? I would be content letting Conservative Christians do their thing on their own time.
That doesn’t mean, however, that I’m going to rush to their aid.

This all makes a lot of sense. Fascism needs to be somehow pushed back in NationStates and if there is no better or easier way to do so than through liberations than this could be used as a means.
I hope this also answers those that were criticizing my definition of the Security Council. You are too, right of course. The SC becomes whatever we use it for.
I wish there were game-mechanics that could be an answer to the spread of hate, other than the SC. Otherwise, I'm sure you can all agree with me on this, the SC will eventually be used as a way of witchhunting.

No-one wants that. Right?

[Nakayo]

One more thing that leaves me concerned:

Who are real nazi's and fascists, and who are just playing?
Should NationStates be censored in such a way that even pretending to be a fascist is wrong?
And if not, how do tell the real fascists from the innocent roleplayers?

[Hessere]

One more thing that leaves me concerned:

Who are real nazi's and fascists, and who are just playing?
Should NationStates be censored in such a way that even pretending to be a fascist is wrong?
And if not, how do tell the real fascists from the innocent roleplayers?

There's a thread for that:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=441573

Although it's mostly just pertaining to things like the second question.

[Nakayo]

One more thing that leaves me concerned:

Who are real nazi's and fascists, and who are just playing?
Should NationStates be censored in such a way that even pretending to be a fascist is wrong?
And if not, how do tell the real fascists from the innocent roleplayers?

There's a thread for that:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=441573

Although it's mostly just pertaining to things like the second question.

I checked the thread. Almost everyone seems to agree that the SC should not be used to liberate regions because of their ideology.
This answers my questions with my own words, basically.

[New Keam]

With Native Approval, I vote in favor of liberation.

[Kowani]

I may not agree with every viewpoint expressed by the CC. However, I do not believe in using ideology as a reason to deny a liberation. After all, we only classify that ideology as bad because of our subjective opinions. I mean, what if we said that we shouldn’t liberate a region because it espoused feminist views. We’d all be up in arms. Yeah, I know, slippery slope. But! It is the reason I’m voting for. Between that and native support? Yeah, no real reason to say no. Ideology and in-game character are 2 different things, lets keep them separate.

[Christian Democrats]

I see that many people vote against this resolution because they don't agree with the values of the conservative christians.

Ignoring the fact that TCC was a region of nudists and child marriage proponents -- i.e., heretics -- we have cast 26 votes against this liberation proposal because it doesn't make sense. The raiders have already booted out all natives, and they have locked the region, so they can refound it at any time. Even if it passes, this liberation will accomplish nothing.

[The Stalker]

I see that many people vote against this resolution because they don't agree with the values of the conservative christians.

Ignoring the fact that TCC was a region of nudists and child marriage proponents -- i.e., heretics -- we have cast 26 votes against this liberation proposal because it doesn't make sense. The raiders have already booted out all natives, and they have locked the region, so they can refound it at any time. Even if it passes, this liberation will accomplish nothing.

Can you provide evidence of this? I'm on the fence myself.

Also the region still has one native left, St Theordos, who has a ton of influence.