[DEFEATED] Condemn Democratic Empire of Romania

[Democratic Empire of Romania]

The Sentiebt, along with The Sentib, are puppets from the CCD. Any information you receive from them is propaganda

They're not you know.

What shall this mean ?

[Conquerus]

Jocospor, you shouldn't condemn nations based on their in game status. What happens in his borders can stay in his borders. Not to mention that you yourself are a dictator. You and the SC have no right to intefere in his nation. Also, raiders actually go OUTSIDE of their regions to destroy regions gloriously liberate regions and so may be fit for condemnations. Not drafting the proposal is also a big no. How this resolution went into vote is beyond comprehension. I will be voting
AGAINST

[Wallenburg]

Hang on a moment, we just spoke to the War Ministry and no one including the Minister for War sanctioned such a telegram.

This communication did not come from the Confederation.

So you are calling IA a liar?

[Jocospor]

Hang on a moment, we just spoke to the War Ministry and no one including the Minister for War sanctioned such a telegram.

This communication did not come from the Confederation.

So you are calling IA a liar?

We make no such assertion. It is possible that a third party has taken it upon themselves to intervene.

The WA Delegate for Europe will be contacted in the near future.

[Isvataan]

Jocospor, you shouldn't condemn nations based on their in game status. What happens in his borders can stay in his borders. Not to mention that you yourself are a dictator. You and the SC have no right to intefere in his nation. Also, raiders actually go OUTSIDE of their regions to destroy regions gloriously liberate regions and so may be fit for condemnations. Not drafting the proposal is also a big no. How this resolution went into vote is beyond comprehension. I will be voting
AGAINST

True

[Crookstan]

First of all, this is beneath the SC in my opinion.

Also, although I do not agree with their style of governing (as alleged), and definitely do not find their lack of transparency (also as alleged) palatable, I see absolutely no reason why the DER should be condemned.

Obviously, condemnation should be reserved for international offenses, we cannot just go around and condemn everyone we think may be lying about how they conduct themselves domestically. If they have not raided other regions or have not committed any international crimes, I simply fail to see how this resolution holds water.

On behalf of The United Socialist States of Crookstan (USSC), I vote AGAINST the resolution. Thank you for your time ladies and gentlemen, may peace be with you all.

[Johann12]

While I don’t think this should be passed at all, some of you needs to calm down.

He just created a bill which doesn’t align with our views, he didnt start the holocaust.


And once again, I voted AGAINST the bill.

[Thuzbekistan]

While I don’t think this should be passed at all, some of you needs to calm down.

He just created a bill which doesn’t align with our views, he didnt start the holocaust.


And once again, I voted AGAINST the bill.

You should go check out the kaiserreich thread

[Conquerus]

While I don’t think this should be passed at all, some of you needs to calm down.

He just created a bill which doesn’t align with our views, he didnt start the holocaust.


And once again, I voted AGAINST the bill.

You should go check out the kaiserreich thread

The Kaiserreich lib was pretty petty though. Actually, every fascist region lib is pretty petty. They should've been used for "liberating" not as a sign of disapproval. If you don't like fascists, give them a condemnation!

[Floydrose]

To the gathered assembled in general and to the right-honourable Jocospor and the members of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators, I must add the voice of Skell and Floydrose to the chorus of those against this security council resolution.

Although we may not agree to the methodology nor the conduct exhibited by the official government of the Democratic Empire of Romania, we respect their right to hold sway over and influence within the sister countries of the The New Mappers Union. Historically this type of direct conflict has never worked in the favor of those aggrieved and has only prolonged the misery within.

Perhaps by the brave actions of Jocospor, and the supporters of the resolution, will convince those elements within the DER who are making so-called 'trouble' to reassess both past and future actions to a more accommodating way both inside and outside their borders.

Thank you for all of your efforts and this brief time before you.

[New Legland]

To the WA Delegate of Europe,

Please excuse this. The Viceroy nor the Imperial Empire had knowledge of this pronouncement. We have a trigger happy Minister for War. He and his office will be dealt with accordingly.

The Confederation makes absolutely no declaration of war against Europe.

Hail the Confederation!

Office of the Viceroy
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

Hang on a moment, we just spoke to the War Ministry and no one including the Minister for War sanctioned such a telegram.

This communication did not come from the Confederation.

I wouldn't be surprised...

[RiderSyl]

The Kaiserreich lib was pretty petty though. Actually, every fascist region lib is pretty petty. They should've been used for "liberating" not as a sign of disapproval. If you don't like fascists, give them a condemnation!

It's been discussed to death why liberations have replaced condemnations, no need to start that crap again here

[Democratic Empire of Romania]

Not this, please
Keep on-topic

[Hessere]

Screw democracy. If a nation or region doesn't want to be democratic, that's their right. Other nations should butt out and stop sticking their noses where they don't belong.

These ideas about liberal democracy, acting like it's some golden god, is pure rubbish. It's as equally absurd as "universal human rights."

I hate to tell you, but culture matters. Some places have never been liberal democracies. It's goes against the national spirit of some places.

The world needs to go back to traditional monarchy. That's the key. We need to remember the true source of legitimate authority: the divine.

It wasn't until the evil of the so-called "Enlightenment" that the divine origin of legitimate authority was questioned. We need to go back.

The Glorious Empire opposes the resolution.

And another thinly-veiled propaganda attempt.

[Imperial States of Burgh]

Screw democracy. If a nation or region doesn't want to be democratic, that's their right. Other nations should butt out and stop sticking their noses where they don't belong.

These ideas about liberal democracy, acting like it's some golden god, is pure rubbish. It's as equally absurd as "universal human rights."

I hate to tell you, but culture matters. Some places have never been liberal democracies. It's goes against the national spirit of some places.

The world needs to go back to traditional monarchy. That's the key. We need to remember the true source of legitimate authority: the divine.

It wasn't until the evil of the so-called "Enlightenment" that the divine origin of legitimate authority was questioned. We need to go back.

The Glorious Empire opposes the resolution.

And another thinly-veiled propaganda attempt.

And what do you precisely mean by this?

Can you tell me how I'm wrong?

How do democratic elections grant legitimacy? The individuals have no authority or legitimacy in and of themselves, so how can they give what they do not have?

God, on the other hand, is the highest authority and the source of all creation. From what else can legitimate authority possibly derive?

[Cylain]

Hang on a moment, we just spoke to the War Ministry and no one including the Minister for War sanctioned such a telegram.

This communication did not come from the Confederation.

I wouldn't be surprised...

As Minister for War of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators, I promise you that I make no attempt to hide any legitimate declaration of war from the Confederation.

I can confirm that the telegram posted did not come from a Confederation officer.

Minister for War of the War Ministry
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

[Russellandd]

I don’t think we should be worrying about this nation. What we should worry about is that this condemnation will be a bad example in the future. This violates one of the resolutions of the General Assembly which allows nations to do what they want.

[Kaboomlandia]

I don’t think we should be worrying about this nation. What we should worry about is that this condemnation will be a bad example in the future. This violates one of the resolutions of the General Assembly which allows nations to do what they want.

1. This has nothing to do with the GA.
2. There’s no risk of this being an example because proposals like these are a dime a dozen.

[Daara]

This proposal states in its text that a Founder with Executive authority is undemocratic (wut?) and that a WA Delegate should have more power over a regional government than its Founder (which is a very Raider-ish thing to say).

This is not SC or GA material. Why this was deemed worthy of discussing or voting at the SC is beyond me.

[Daggdag]

I am on the fence here. I do agree that a founder has every right to make decisions in their region.

However, I also believe that the security council has always condemned immoral interference in reginal governments. Usually, this interference comes from raiders. In this case, the founder is claiming that the region is democratic and then doing whatever they want regardless of what the other members want.....



In the end I would have to agree that their behavior is worthy of condemnation. If this was a case of a founder simply changing their mind in how they want their region ran, I would say it's up their them and vote against the resolution. However, they are claiming to run their region as a democracy, and then interfere whenever the government does't do what they want. I believe that a founder who abuses their power to undermine the legitimate government of a region without officially and publically making changes to the regional goverment and how the region is ran is worthy of condemnation. If we ignore this behavior, it creates a precedent that democracy is meaningless.

[Willania Imperium]

I am on the fence here. I do agree that a founder has every right to make decisions in their region.

However, I also believe that the security council has always condemned immoral interference in reginal governments. Usually, this interference comes from raiders. In this case, the founder is claiming that the region is democratic and then doing whatever they want regardless of what the other members want.....



In the end I would have to agree that their behavior is worthy of condemnation. If this was a case of a founder simply changing their mind in how they want their region ran, I would say it's up their them and vote against the resolution. However, they are claiming to run their region as a democracy, and then interfere whenever the government does't do what they want. I believe that a founder who abuses their power to undermine the legitimate government of a region without officially and publically making changes to the regional goverment and how the region is ran is worthy of condemnation. If we ignore this behavior, it creates a precedent that democracy is meaningless.

This is obviously nothing more than a petty way to fight another region in a petty feud. And even if it isn't, it hasn't been publically drafted in the forums, which could allow mistakes and flawed logic to slip in, and the founder of any region have the right to run their region in any way they wish, whether democratic or not.

[BlackLight Covenant]

Alright, so if I'm not mistaken, the idea of this proposal is to condemn the target nation because it supposedly behaves in ways similar to a dictatorship, despite officially being democratic, meaning the proposal would be protecting democratic values.

Now, I see a few problems here. First of all, condemning a nation based on how it runs the region it is in charge of makes little sense. Nations are allowed to run their regions in whatever way they please, and maintaining a non-executive WA delegate is most likely meant as a way of protecting the region from foreign aggression. Even if it isn't, I don't believe the SC should be involved in the politics of an otherwise peaceful region. Supposed lying on how a nation runs its own politics and those of its region is not something worthy of a condemnation; lying is pretty much a standard tactic in politics. This matter should be handled internally, and not by the international community.

On that note, for what I understand from comments previously made, I feel like this proposal's true reason isn't an attempt at protecting democratic values, but at trying to win a conflict between two regions through usage of the SC. The purpose of a condemnation as I see it is to supposedly punish regions and nations like raiders (whether this actually has any effect is a different question) and somewhat warn the international community of whatever risk they pose. It's not meant as a tool to fight a conflict. Handle this internally, fight it out if necessary; war is a legitimate if drastic tool to settle diplomatic conflict.

Lastly, I find it a bit ironic that this proposal to condemn a supposedly autocratic nation was made by none other than a dictatorship. The fact that the proposer of this idea has failed to put this up as a draft first because it appears to consider input from other nations unnecessary or useless doesn't strike me as a good sign, either.

In light of this, I can assure you that none of our nation's ruling conglomerates 100% democratically elected political parties will change its mind on our vote against the passing of this proposal.

[Central Asian Republics]

Literally what is the issue here?

You condemn a region for supposedly hiding their dictatorship under the veil of democracy, how is that an issue, let alone a condemnable one? I never knew that the founder and non-elected delegate of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators could be so principled. Honestly at this point, our fine delegates at the WA are voting in proposals just for shits and giggles.

[Crosovo]

Being autocratic isn't worthy of condemnation.

This is so true.

[New Keam]

Literally what is the issue here?

You condemn a region for supposedly hiding their dictatorship under the veil of democracy, how is that an issue, let alone a condemnable one? I never knew that the founder and non-elected delegate of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators could be so principled. Honestly at this point, our fine delegates at the WA are voting in proposals just for shits and giggles.

"I never noticed that. Wow. That's priceless."