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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17789
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:51 am

First comment: The current draft seems a bit too confused about whether it's about limiting people's use of water for the benefit of the environment, which would fit the designated category, or about ensuring drinking-water supplies for people...
Last edited by Bears Armed on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:05 am

Bears Armed wrote:First comment: The current draft seems a bit too confused about whether it's about limiting people's use of water for the benefit of the environment, which would fit the designated category, or about ensuring drinking-water supplies for people...


OOC: Could you explain where this confusion comes from so I can rectify it?

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:21 am

OOC: I hope to submit this proposal soon unless anyone would like to share any constructive criticism it objections to the proposal.
Last edited by Zone 71 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:24 am

OOC: I will be submitting the proposal today, tomorrow, or the day after unless there are any more objections or criticism to be made. I've been having trouble with my API and until I get it fixed, I won't be able to submit my proposal.

Thank you all for helping me shape this proposal, and for taking the time to share your insightful tips and constructive criticism.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17789
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 am

Zone 71 wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:First comment: The current draft seems a bit too confused about whether it's about limiting people's use of water for the benefit of the environment, which would fit the designated category, or about ensuring drinking-water supplies for people...


OOC: Could you explain where this confusion comes from so I can rectify it?

The current preamble is almost completely about shortages of clean drinking water for people, rather than about the environmental effects of people using too much water: There's one throw-away reference to "pollution", but even that seems to be in the context of reducing drinking-water quality rather than damage to the environment.

Operative clause 1: just a definition, so context not as relevant.
Operative clause 2: Doesn't actually explain which purpose member nations are to improve management of their freshwater supplies for.
Operative clause 3: Okay, that does fit the category.
Operative clause 4: rather vague on the the details of what the public are to be taught (see my comment on clause 2).
Operative clause 5: What is an "irrigated agricultural basin", and how would creating them in those member nations that currently don't practice artificial irrigation of agriculture at all help to prevent water shortages? (The rest of the clause could be about improving the environment as well as about improving drinking-water supplies, but nothing in the preamble really tells member nations that this is what they should be aiming at...)
Operative clause 6: Okay.
Operative clause 7: the 1st & 4th sub-clauses are explicitly about drinking-water supplies rather than environmental protection; the 2nd & 3rd sub-clause don't explain whether they're to help protect the environment or to help with drinking-water supplies.

Essentially you need to re-focus the preamble onto the environmental consequences of over-use of freshwater, rather than on its effects on the drinking-water supply, so that the member nations know that that is what they're supposed to be doing under the operative clauses.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12500
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:45 pm

OOC: I don't think it's ready for submission - the things Bears pointed out include some of the issues from earlier that still exist. I probably have my earlier critique somewhere in my sent TGs if you'd like me to reiterate those points?

Edit: My "brain not too melted to think NationStates" hours continue to be 1-3 daily due to RL weather persisting on the sweltering hot, so haven't been on a lot lately. Sorry about that.
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:01 pm

OOC: I updated the draft. I'm hoping to submit this proposal soon. It has been in the works for several months, I feel confident of the current version, and I would like to be done with it rather than spend more weeks or months on it.

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Aclion
Minister
 
Posts: 3255
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:14 pm

Why does the the prohibition in clause 6 only apply to the business sector?
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It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:20 pm

Aclion wrote:Why does the the prohibition in clause 6 only apply to the business sector?

I'll expand it to apply to the entire nation.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:59 am

OOC: I'll likely submit the proposal tomorrow unless there are further edits to be made.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17789
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:02 am

OOC: It's still a lot more about protecting drinking-eater water supplies than about protecting the environment. I still don't see it as fitting into the 'Environmental' Category.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:22 am

Bears Armed wrote:OOC: It's still a lot more about protecting drinking-eater water supplies than about protecting the environment. I still don't see it as fitting into the 'Environmental' Category.

OOC: Although the proposed legislation focuses moreover on human impact and behavior, the bill's subject matter is developed around the environmental issues of water pollution and scarcity.

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The Atlae Isles
Diplomat
 
Posts: 937
Founded: Feb 07, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Atlae Isles » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Did you take this into account? Since you didn't respond to it, it's not clear to me if you did or not.

Otherwise, the proposal looks pretty good to me.
Last edited by The Atlae Isles on Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current: Professor in the University of The East Pacific
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Former: Minister of Foreign Affairs in The East Pacific
Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs in The West Pacific
Provost of The East Pacific
Author of Issues #752 and #816
Member of TWPAF and EPSA
WA Ambassador: George Williamsen
"Gloria in Terra"
"The pronunciation of "Atlae" is /ætleɪ/. Don't you forget it."

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12500
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:42 pm

OOC: As the co-author, I have asked Zone 71 to not submit until I have had a chance to go through it again, which might not happen before the weekend, given how my social calendar suddenly filled up. (Sorry, Zone 71, life happens sometimes.)

EDIT: Okay, so apparently the gods of karma are trying to delay me from combing through this, as I managed to hurt my back again (a recurring problem). This is on my ASAP list, though.
Last edited by Araraukar on Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Bump

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3993
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:45 am

“Clause 6, I would add ‘or any businesses contained wherein’ after ‘member nations’, to cover the possibility of non-governmental actions.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:55 am

Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 6, I would add ‘or any businesses contained wherein’ after ‘member nations’, to cover the possibility of non-governmental actions.”

"Thank you, ambassador, for your suggestion, and the generosity you have given overall throughout the drafting process of this proposal. It has been added."

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:39 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: As the co-author, I have asked Zone 71 to not submit until I have had a chance to go through it again, which might not happen before the weekend, given how my social calendar suddenly filled up. (Sorry, Zone 71, life happens sometimes.)

EDIT: Okay, so apparently the gods of karma are trying to delay me from combing through this, as I managed to hurt my back again (a recurring problem). This is on my ASAP list, though.

OOC: I received your telegram and made several edits based on your suggestions. But I know many of the comments and criticisms are based off of a previous draft. Would you like to review the latest draft? Otherwise, I'll look this proposal over a couple times, make some final edits, and then submit it.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12500
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:25 pm

Zone 71 wrote:But I know many of the comments and criticisms are based off of a previous draft. Would you like to review the latest draft?

OOC: A lot of the comments were apparently also ignored, and I'd like to know why. You want to continue this in TG or here? For a proper comb-through-rewrite-suggestion-frenzy you'll have to wait a day or two.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:55 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Zone 71 wrote:But I know many of the comments and criticisms are based off of a previous draft. Would you like to review the latest draft?

OOC: A lot of the comments were apparently also ignored, and I'd like to know why. You want to continue this in TG or here? For a proper comb-through-rewrite-suggestion-frenzy you'll have to wait a day or two.

Whatever you would prefer.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12500
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:51 am

Zone 71 wrote:Whatever you would prefer.

OOC: Let's do TG to avoid cluttering the thread. :)
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:47 am

Araraukar wrote:
Zone 71 wrote:Whatever you would prefer.

OOC: Let's do TG to avoid cluttering the thread. :)

OOC: Alrighty.

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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:51 pm

After months of drafting, much needed and appreciated constructive criticism, and several drafts, I am confident that this proposal is ready for submission. Although it may be prudent to wait until September or October to submit it, once WA members become more active, because my Hel- school is starting very soon, and because I fear I will be too encumbered by schoolwork and other activities to focus on this proposal, I would strongly prefer to submit this sooner rather than later. And with that being said, I will submit this proposal under my alternative account, Rovikstead, two or three days from now, afterI transfer WA membership to that account and review the proposal a couple times over.

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Uan aa Boa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 661
Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uan aa Boa » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:15 am

While applauding the sentiment, and especially wishing to see effective measures similar to clause 6 enshrined in international law, we regret that we cannot support this. In terms of quality, clarity and fit to category we do not believe it is of the necessary standard.

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Rovikstead
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 428
Founded: Dec 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Rovikstead » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:44 am

I, Zone 71's alternative account, just submitted the proposal here: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1535035487

Thank you everyone, especially the very generous and talented co-authors, Araraukar and Kenmoria, for all of the help and support. I hope to see this passing quorum and the vote!
The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom wrote:** RED FLAG ** . ** RING CHURCH BELLS ** . ** BESTIALITY ALERT ** . ** CHRISTIANS TAKE COVER **

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