[DEFEATED] Repeal: Liberate Kaiserreich

[Soviet Lestland]

I am against this desicion as i have seen their behaviour of their own, within a spy nation i put in.

Their use of nazi propaganda, milded down to remove swastikas and SS symbols does justify for once, bause if they were truly imperialist, they would use ww1 posters, rather refraining to posters from the time of the nazis.

[RiderSyl]

Everybody you described in total adds up to three people TOPS.

It used to be just one antisemitic guy (who totes wasn't a Nazi) and now it's three. Ok.

At this rate, KR will be overrun by antisemitism in a few hours!

[Dwarfpolis]

<Dreyfus affair photo>
Let's take this photo. Two people with anti-semitic opinions, the dude we talked about and that who said to expel the jews.
<"Jews are vermin" photo>
Take this one, radical dude calling jews maggots, another third player saying "muh 6 gorillion". That last thing is pretty ambiguous because he might not be denying the holocaust, just expressing disinterest in how much it's sorrowed in the media. So he's half-and-half, schrodinger's fash if you will.
We have more than 2.5 lefties in the region.

Everybody you described in total adds up to three people TOPS. We still have more commies and socdems than that.

How many of those Commies and SocDems are engaged on the KR Discord? 'Cause the Discord is what mattered. That's where the nasty shit was said. Not in the region.

Firstly, the commies and socdems weren't in the photos because the photo-taker wanted to demonstrate that KR was a fascist region and anything contradicting that wouldn't suit his point.

"'Cause the Discord is what mattered. That's where the nasty shit was said. Not in the region."

Most/all. Why does the discord matter anyways? Are you admitting that's the last stand this liberation can make?

It used to be just one antisemitic guy (who totes wasn't a Nazi) and now it's three. Ok.

You are literally not able to refute that we're more lefty than antisemitic and you're now grasping at this straw. Why do you want KR to be fascist so much?

Their use of nazi propaganda, milded down to remove swastikas and SS symbols does justify for once, bause if they were truly imperialist, they would use ww1 posters, rather refraining to posters from the time of the nazis.

We edited nazi propaganda not to be nazi so we're nazi, i see.

[RiderSyl]

Firstly, the commies and socdems weren't in the photos because the photo-taker wanted to demonstrate that KR was a fascist region and anything contradicting that wouldn't suit his point.

Oh, now your counterargument is that it's a conspiracy against you. Wonderful. I'll bite. Which Commies and SocDems weren't in the photos?

Most/all. Why does the discord matter anyways? Are you admitting that's the last stand this liberation can make?

Of course. No way was I pointing out that your continued references to people in the region didn't mean a damn thing because those people aren't involved in the arena where your community lets loose with its most offensive bullshit. I was clearly admitting something that would make your entire argument for you. Well done.

We edited nazi propaganda not to be nazi so we're nazi, i see.

No. A few years back, you used actual Nazi propaganda and were called out for it. You removed them and then someone re-added them with the Nazi stuff edited out. You were called out for it again. It was removed then re-added later. You were called out for it again. It has never been removed. You've been called out repeatedly since and KR and members of it like you have just put out weak-ass justifications for it like the one you just put out.

There. Straightened that out.

[Dwarfpolis]

Firstly, the commies and socdems weren't in the photos because the photo-taker wanted to demonstrate that KR was a fascist region and anything contradicting that wouldn't suit his point.

Oh, now your counterargument is that it's a conspiracy against you. Wonderful. I'll bite. Which Commies and SocDems weren't in the photos?

Most/all. Why does the discord matter anyways? Are you admitting that's the last stand this liberation can make?

Of course. No way was I pointing out that your continued references to people in the region didn't mean a damn thing because those people aren't involved in the arena where your community lets loose with its most offensive bullshit. I was clearly admitting something that would make your entire argument for you. Well done.

We edited nazi propaganda not to be nazi so we're nazi, i see.

No. A few years back, you used actual Nazi propaganda and were called out for it. You removed them and then someone re-added them with the Nazi stuff edited out. You were called out for it again. It was removed then re-added later. You were called out for it again. It has never been removed. You've been called out repeatedly since and KR and members of it like you have just put out weak-ass justifications for it like the one you just put out.

There. Straightened that out.

"Oh, now your counterargument is that it's a conspiracy against you. Wonderful."
what?
"Of course. No way was I pointing out that your continued references to people in the region didn't mean a damn thing because those people aren't involved in the arena where your community lets loose with its most offensive bullshit. I was clearly admitting something that would make your entire argument for you. Well done."
What?

List of soc-dems/commie countries off the top of my head, more coming soon:
Danubian Fed
Molvania
Eastern Germanic Countries
Risen Prussia anything but fascist

Need I go on?
Why would a photo of 3 people in a discord of more than 30 signify anything?


"There. Straightened that out."

Ok so it's still nazi propaganda edited not to be nazi that is found nazi by non-nazis.

[RiderSyl]

what?

Let's move past the fact you don't understand your own counter-argument and see if you'll answer the question if I pose it again. Which Communist/SocDem members of your Discord were excluded from the photos in the conspiracy to make your community look bad?

What?

It's sarcasm. Don't play dumb.

List of soc-dems/commie countries off the top of my head, more coming soon:
Danubian Fed
Molvania
Eastern Germanic Countries
Risen Prussia anything but fascist

I have yet to make an idealogical argument of any kind and yet you'll still doing this shit. Why are trying so hard to prove you're not fascist to someone that isn't accusing you of being fascist? I'm really starting to wonder.

Why would a photo of 3 people in a discord of more than 30 signify anything?

I dunno, ask the Liberation badge at the top of your region what it signifies.

Ok so it's still nazi propaganda edited not to be nazi that is found nazi by non-nazis.

Hahahaha, what?! Does it need to be found Nazi by actual real-life Nazis before KR is in the wrong here? What the fuck.

[Dwarfpolis]

what?

Let's move past the fact you don't understand your own counter-argument and see if you'll answer the question if I pose it again. Which Communist/SocDem members of your Discord were excluded from the photos in the conspiracy to make your community look bad?

What?

It's sarcasm. Don't play dumb.

List of soc-dems/commie countries off the top of my head, more coming soon:
Danubian Fed
Molvania
Eastern Germanic Countries
Risen Prussia anything but fascist

I have yet to make an idealogical argument of any kind and yet you'll still doing this shit. Why are trying so hard to prove you're not fascist to someone that isn't accusing you of being fascist? I'm really starting to wonder.

Why would a photo of 3 people in a discord of more than 30 signify anything?

I dunno, ask the Liberation badge at the top of your region what it signifies.

Ok so it's still nazi propaganda edited not to be nazi that is found nazi by non-nazis.

Hahahaha, what?! Does it need to be found Nazi by actual real-life Nazis before KR is in the wrong here? What the fuck.

Okay, I have no idea what you're trying to say, do rephrase your argument in your next reply to me.

[RiderSyl]

Okay, I have no idea what you're trying to say, do rephrase your argument in your next reply to me.

1. The lazily edited WW2-era German posters have to be axed permanently. They've been around for years and nobody in KR has been able to justify their continued existence. They're a bad look that gives a bad vibe to new recruits and gives ammunition to KR's foes. I know that it's difficult to find good art of the German Empire, but you guys have to stop giving into laziness.

2. NationStates is a very liberal community overall, and "it's just a joke" is no longer saving anyone from having their comments used against them if they're deemed too offensive for the average NS user. Since the average NS user has a liberal slant, you guys are on the wrong side of this as long as those 3 members aren't thrown under the bus for the good of the region. No matter how much you protest, using the ideological diversity of KR, it won't matter.

[Dwarfpolis]

Okay, I have no idea what you're trying to say, do rephrase your argument in your next reply to me.

1. The lazily edited WW2-era German posters have to be axed permanently. They've been around for years and nobody in KR has been able to justify their continued existence. They're a bad look that gives a bad vibe to new recruits and gives ammunition to KR's foes. I know that it's difficult to find good art of the German Empire, but you guys have to stop giving into laziness.

2. NationStates is a very liberal community overall, and "it's just a joke" is no longer saving anyone from having their comments used against them if they're deemed too offensive for the average NS user. Since the average NS user has a liberal slant, you guys are on the wrong side of this as long as those 3 members aren't thrown under the bus for the good of the region. No matter how much you protest the diversity of KR, it won't matter.

Well, I agree with you on both grounds; There was an overreaction to the posters but the "bad vibes" point is one I find myself agreeing with, one option would be replacing the posters with drawn OC. That axing the players to redeem ourselves might be the only option, although I am acting in spite of that likelihood by arguing that we're not fascist. However I assume that the region will keep the liberation and the players before losing both.
I'm glad we could have gotten along much better now.

[Federal American Union]

Against. Kaiserreich has a right to not be "liberated" simply because of their beliefs. Are you a bigot?

[Kurnugia]

Okay, I have no idea what you're trying to say, do rephrase your argument in your next reply to me.

1. The lazily edited WW2-era German posters have to be axed permanently. They've been around for years and nobody in KR has been able to justify their continued existence. They're a bad look that gives a bad vibe to new recruits and gives ammunition to KR's foes. I know that it's difficult to find good art of the German Empire, but you guys have to stop giving into laziness.

If you know how to search, it's easy. shrugs

[Drasnia]

KR has been given opportunity after opportunity over the course of years to show that they aren't fascist. Time and time again, KR has rebuffed those opportunities. It's only because of the region as a whole's sheer incompetence and persecution complex that they've become such a black mark. It baffles me that when being accused of being anti-semitic, you (collective you as a region) """parody""" Nazi-ism. It doesn't matter whether it was actually a parody or not; what matters is international perception. KR is so painfully unaware with their tasteless jokes.

KR's piss-poor PR and attitude has irreversibly tarnished their reputation. They will always be a proscribed region and they completely deserve it.

[Kaboomlandia]

Opposed.

Yes, it's an offensive liberation against a foundered region, which is functionally useless.

However, K-Reich actually is fascist, unlike the other proposals of this type. They and NE should keep their libs.

[Rrborn]

Okay, I have no idea what you're trying to say, do rephrase your argument in your next reply to me.

1. The lazily edited WW2-era German posters have to be axed permanently. They've been around for years and nobody in KR has been able to justify their continued existence. They're a bad look that gives a bad vibe to new recruits and gives ammunition to KR's foes. I know that it's difficult to find good art of the German Empire, but you guys have to stop giving into laziness.

2. NationStates is a very liberal community overall, and "it's just a joke" is no longer saving anyone from having their comments used against them if they're deemed too offensive for the average NS user. Since the average NS user has a liberal slant, you guys are on the wrong side of this as long as those 3 members aren't thrown under the bus for the good of the region. No matter how much you protest, using the ideological diversity of KR, it won't matter.

We were trying to Axe them permentaly but uh...nobody has access to edit the Factbook except the Kaiser and he's in basic training... the lazy propaganda belongs to a bygone era of KR history, most current members weren't around when it was made and didn't know it existed. I'm not exaggerating when I say that few new members navigate our maze of a WFE.

To your point about the scodems not being involved, that's wrong. Laurenberg, a social Democrat is active in the discord and army. So is Estonland, and outspoken communist. So is Longhornia, a Muslim. Triemann is a hard liberal and he basically leads the government. Kaiserreich is pretty diverse, as long as you're nice you can stay. Believe me, we have banned people before for spewing hate.

And it sounds like the average NS user is a close minded fool who needs to be reminded that suppressing and persecuting people based on their ideaology was a favorite tactic of actual nazis...

[Scheinenland]

Opposed.

Yes, it's an offensive liberation against a foundered region, which is functionally useless.

However, K-Reich actually is fascist, unlike the other proposals of this type. They and NE should keep their libs.

After all these liberations went down, I joined other affected regions' servers. When I joined Nazi Europa I was made extremely uneasy by what was said and what they discussed. Kaiserreich and Nazi Europa aren't even close to the same category... And please, I really wish this baffoon didn't open his mouth in the first place, he absolutely doesn't represent how we feel and act in Kaiserreich.

[Kaboomlandia]

Opposed.

Yes, it's an offensive liberation against a foundered region, which is functionally useless.

However, K-Reich actually is fascist, unlike the other proposals of this type. They and NE should keep their libs.

After all these liberations went down, I joined other affected regions' servers. When I joined Nazi Europa I was made extremely uneasy by what was said and what they discussed. Kaiserreich and Nazi Europa aren't even close to the same category... And please, I really wish this baffoon didn't open his mouth in the first place, he absolutely doesn't represent how we feel and act in Kaiserreich.

It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the entire game that K-Reich is a Nazi supporter region, and has been for years now.

[Rrborn]

After all these liberations went down, I joined other affected regions' servers. When I joined Nazi Europa I was made extremely uneasy by what was said and what they discussed. Kaiserreich and Nazi Europa aren't even close to the same category... And please, I really wish this baffoon didn't open his mouth in the first place, he absolutely doesn't represent how we feel and act in Kaiserreich.

It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the entire game that K-Reich is a Nazi supporter region, and has been for years now.

Except we aren't.

[Prydania]

<Dreyfus affair photo>

It used to be just one antisemitic guy (who totes wasn't a Nazi) and now it's three. Ok.

You are literally not able to refute that we're more lefty than antisemitic and you're now grasping at this straw. Why do you want KR to be fascist so much?

I disagree with your earlier assertion that KReich had only one antisemitic member, which you later admitted you had to bump up to three once evidence was presented. So it seems like your earlier assertion that KReich as more leftists than fascists is flawed.
Your claim that KReich only had "one" anti-Semite who wasn't even a Nazi has been proven incorrect. Why should we believe your new claim that KReich "only" has three people with Nazi sympathies correct in light of your earlier "mistake"?

I don't want KReich to be fascist. Hell, I stuck me neck out for KReich, both here and in TNP, to argue that you guys weren't fascist. So it would actually be in my best interest to prove that you guys aren't infested with fascists, Nazis, and bigots.
Sadly for me, however, all the available evidence points to the opposite.

And, to repeat, "just jokes, brah!" no longer plays as a justification for trivializing genocide.

[Kaboomlandia]

It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the entire game that K-Reich is a Nazi supporter region, and has been for years now.

Except we aren't.

And those Nazi propaganda posters photoshopped themselves, right? Nothing to hide at all

[Scheinenland]

After all these liberations went down, I joined other affected regions' servers. When I joined Nazi Europa I was made extremely uneasy by what was said and what they discussed. Kaiserreich and Nazi Europa aren't even close to the same category... And please, I really wish this baffoon didn't open his mouth in the first place, he absolutely doesn't represent how we feel and act in Kaiserreich.

It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the entire game that K-Reich is a Nazi supporter region, and has been for years now.

I don't expect you to believe me, but personally, I rarely see the kind of anti-semitic jokes that are in the Discord evidence. That doesn't mean they don't happen, because in a region like Kaiserreich, just the name attracts more unwanted individuals than it should. They definitely occasionally occur though, and in all honesty, there's not much anyone can do about it. If all they were doing was shitposting, there might be public outcry against Kaiserreich that it is a censoring police-state, potentially crippling its stability. Most of us have no affiliation or interest in Nazism at all, and in fact hate it. While there are Nazis in Kaiserreich, they are not the majority, and they do not represent the majority.

[Rrborn]

Except we aren't.

And those Nazi propaganda posters photoshopped themselves, right? Nothing to hide at all

And I guess you missed the part where I said most of us hate those posters. They were posted 2+ years ago before most of us were even on NS. I wish I could remove them but until the Kaiser gets back from basic we can't

[Kaboomlandia]

It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the entire game that K-Reich is a Nazi supporter region, and has been for years now.

I don't expect you to believe me, but personally, I rarely see the kind of anti-semitic jokes that are in the Discord evidence. That doesn't mean they don't happen, because in a region like Kaiserreich, just the name attracts more unwanted individuals than it should. They definitely occasionally occur though, and in all honesty, there's not much anyone can do about it. If all they were doing was shitposting, there might be public outcry against Kaiserreich that it is a censoring police-state, potentially crippling its stability. Most of us have no affiliation or interest in Nazism at all, and in fact hate it. While there are Nazis in Kaiserreich, they are not the majority, and they do not represent the majority.

If K-Reich had any respectability whatsoever, there wouldn't be free reign to make Holocaust jokes. In a Discord channel that is open to any Tom, Dick, and Harry.

[Scheinenland]

I would like to say on behalf of the government and people of Kaiserreich, Dwarfpolis does not represent Kaiserreich to any extent, has proven to be a detriment to Kaiserreich, and should not be taken seriously in any forum post or anything else attached to his name. He is certainly not a representation of how we act and think in Kaiserreich, and should not be given any weight to his words.

[Scheinenland]

I don't expect you to believe me, but personally, I rarely see the kind of anti-semitic jokes that are in the Discord evidence. That doesn't mean they don't happen, because in a region like Kaiserreich, just the name attracts more unwanted individuals than it should. They definitely occasionally occur though, and in all honesty, there's not much anyone can do about it. If all they were doing was shitposting, there might be public outcry against Kaiserreich that it is a censoring police-state, potentially crippling its stability. Most of us have no affiliation or interest in Nazism at all, and in fact hate it. While there are Nazis in Kaiserreich, they are not the majority, and they do not represent the majority.

If K-Reich had any respectability whatsoever, there wouldn't be free reign to make Holocaust jokes. In a Discord channel that is open to any Tom, Dick, and Harry.

I agree.

[Prydania]

If K-Reich had any respectability whatsoever, there wouldn't be free reign to make Holocaust jokes. In a Discord channel that is open to any Tom, Dick, and Harry.

I agree.

Ok, cool. Then why does the leadership of KReich allows those jokes to be made?