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[PASSED] Don't Kill the Poor Act

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Gonadez
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Posts: 15
Founded: Dec 30, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Gonadez » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:22 am

The more we debate, the clearer it is that this bill contains way too many vague terms....
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Munnius
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Oct 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Munnius » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:55 am

But what we gonna do .. if the poor is condition come from genetic ,innate condition.
Vasectomy is illegal ?

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Ru-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1095
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ru- » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:32 am

Ru supports this, the WA's definitions for what groups are covered for our policies on genocidal action and refugees was due for a bit of expansion, which is what this does.

And in case anyone is curious: Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing we feel is well within the WA's proper jurisdiction. No annoying NatSov arguments from us this time.

We are unsure if there are actually nations out there implementing these kinds of policies against people based on economic status but I suppose you can never really know with this lot. Better safe than sorry.
Last edited by Ru- on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Land of the Ephyral
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Land of the Ephyral » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:49 am

This is one of the dumbest WA acts I have ever read.

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AaronScythe
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jul 16, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby AaronScythe » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:03 pm

So we can't imprison (isolate),exile(removal from designated areas) gang members and/or terrorists acting together when they're all proven guilty of membership by presence at high level meetings, multiple times?
And if these people flee from elsewhere we're to give them refugee status?

The only option quite ironically, is capital punishment.

When killing indiscriminately is less genocide than a law tries to pass, it's a rather foolish law.

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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:21 pm

+1 didn't read the resolution.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Alvero
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Posts: 19
Founded: Dec 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alvero » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:48 pm

After reviewing this bill, we will likely be voting AGAINST. There are three big problems we have with this bill that I will provide below.

First, it’s misleading. Although it says it is defending the poor, it does not distinguish the poor, it merely says economic status.

Second, there’s no precedent for use of “genocide” on economic status. It’s a huge stretch to say any acts of violence against a group of a certain economic status is genocide. I think we should put a red line in the sand on what should be considered genocide otherwise it will open the flood gates for every single group, minor or major. I think genocide should be restricted to what is defined in the Convention Against Genocide.

Third, there’s no justification for the need of such a bill. When asked what the author intended to protect against, they linked a short video from a sitcom. There’s nothing to suggest there’s a major problem with violence targeting groups of certain economic statuses, at least not enough to justify a GA proposal.

Lilian Ventura
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The Republic of Alvero

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Alastrius
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Oct 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Alastrius » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:02 pm

My skepticism arises when I ask the question "can I ban other religions?" We have an established religion and this bill would prevent me from imprisoning those who violate our laws on religion. We are Catholic and Catholicism is integral to the government. To allow the existence of other religions, it opens up the ability for these heathens to infiltrate our administration and attempt to spread "religious freedom" and lead people to damnation. We will not be supporting this bill and likely, won't support any revisions, either.

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Alastrius wrote:My skepticism arises when I ask the question "can I ban other religions?" We have an established religion and this bill would prevent me from imprisoning those who violate our laws on religion. We are Catholic and Catholicism is integral to the government. To allow the existence of other religions, it opens up the ability for these heathens to infiltrate our administration and attempt to spread "religious freedom" and lead people to damnation. We will not be supporting this bill and likely, won't support any revisions, either.

“You already cannot ban religion, as that is prohibited by ‘Freedom of Religion’ and ‘Charter of Civil Rights’, although I am sure there are plenty of other resolutions that address the specifics of the kind of discrimination you are suggesting.”
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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:25 pm

Alastrius wrote:My skepticism arises when I ask the question "can I ban other religions?" We have an established religion and this bill would prevent me from imprisoning those who violate our laws on religion. We are Catholic and Catholicism is integral to the government. To allow the existence of other religions, it opens up the ability for these heathens to infiltrate our administration and attempt to spread "religious freedom" and lead people to damnation. We will not be supporting this bill and likely, won't support any revisions, either.

The voting chamber goes silent for just a moment. Then, out of the dark corners of the vast room emerge small creatures draped in green cloaks. First a handful, but in seconds hundreds are filling the chamber from all directions.

Compliance is mandatory.

The figures swarm the ambassador from Alastrius, and before they can utter a single cry of surprise or alarm, the entire delegation disappears under a sea of green.

Compliance is mandatory.

The small figures in their innumerable quantity slowly recede out of the chamber, into the main hall. When they clear the room, the seats provided for the Alastrian delegation are empty, save for a single green figure. It produces a sheet of paper and reads:

"The Order of the Gnomes at this time recognizes Resolutions 35 and 430. Compliance is mandatory."

The figure exits the room and shuts the door behind it.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Sethtekia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 165
Founded: Jun 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sethtekia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:24 pm

"This is yet again, another violation of the World Assembly by adding more laws to laws already laid out. However you if you look at past resolutions there is already one similar to this. And its quite enough to do what is necessary. Nobody should be making more and more outrageous laws that inhibit a Nation from enforcing its own laws. Slums and ghettos are notorious for housing dangerous criminals released from prison. So violence in these areas are not uncommon. But now you're saying we can't go into a slum and destroy the enemy there without the "Case by Case..." How are you going to enforce this law upon nations who do not care about World Assembly laws. You can pass them all you want. But enforcing your will upon these nations is pathetic." The Delegate from Sethtekia would speak when he was given the greenlight to speak.
Last edited by Sethtekia on Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sethtekia is a Fictional Roleplayed Nation in an alternate reality in which the Nazi's won the War, and changed itself as an organization after the successful Operation Valkyrie took place. The USSR Collapsed and in place was a loyal nation known as Sethtekia by at the time its first leader was an SS Officer.

NOTE: Holy Reich of Greater Germania is a ROLEPLAY REGION. In an alternate Reality much like the Man in the High Castle.

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Arasi Luvasa
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Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:44 pm

Sethtekia wrote:"This is yet again, another violation of the World Assembly by adding more laws to laws already laid out. However you if you look at past resolutions there is already one similar to this. And its quite enough to do what is necessary. Nobody should be making more and more outrageous laws that inhibit a Nation from enforcing its own laws. Slums and ghettos are notorious for housing dangerous criminals released from prison. So violence in these areas are not uncommon. But now you're saying we can't go into a slum and destroy the enemy there without the "Case by Case..." How are you going to enforce this law upon nations who do not care about World Assembly laws. You can pass them all you want. But enforcing your will upon these nations is pathetic." The Delegate from Sethtekia would speak when he was given the greenlight to speak.


"Ambassador, if you don't intend to follow any resolutions then I must ask why you have joined the World Assembly. Besides that there are various reasons for the issue you have just described and the violent approach you seem to advocate would not improve the situation."
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Sethtekia
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Posts: 165
Founded: Jun 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sethtekia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:54 pm

Arasi Luvasa wrote:
Sethtekia wrote:"This is yet again, another violation of the World Assembly by adding more laws to laws already laid out. However you if you look at past resolutions there is already one similar to this. And its quite enough to do what is necessary. Nobody should be making more and more outrageous laws that inhibit a Nation from enforcing its own laws. Slums and ghettos are notorious for housing dangerous criminals released from prison. So violence in these areas are not uncommon. But now you're saying we can't go into a slum and destroy the enemy there without the "Case by Case..." How are you going to enforce this law upon nations who do not care about World Assembly laws. You can pass them all you want. But enforcing your will upon these nations is pathetic." The Delegate from Sethtekia would speak when he was given the greenlight to speak.


"Ambassador, if you don't intend to follow any resolutions then I must ask why you have joined the World Assembly. Besides that there are various reasons for the issue you have just described and the violent approach you seem to advocate would not improve the situation."


"Our nation has only joined the World Assembly to be a voice of reason. These laws are just adding on to be adding on. These are not helpful to the poor. Don't kill the Poor act... so you can't just kill a poor criminal because of his economic status? A nation is nothing if its worst off people are treated differently. So its perfectly fine for a government to kill richer people because we can. But not the poor. Because thats a War Crime. Don't see what this Assembly is doing? We have allowed Police brutality laws be enacted. We've allowed Genocide laws to be enacted. But now you're creating laws that prevent a nation from dispersing the poor through violence if need be. What will the World Assembly if a smaller nation violates these laws? What will the World Assembly do if these laws are passed, and not followed. There is no upside to this law other then the Poor will see it as a free pass to commit crimes."
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Sethtekia is a Fictional Roleplayed Nation in an alternate reality in which the Nazi's won the War, and changed itself as an organization after the successful Operation Valkyrie took place. The USSR Collapsed and in place was a loyal nation known as Sethtekia by at the time its first leader was an SS Officer.

NOTE: Holy Reich of Greater Germania is a ROLEPLAY REGION. In an alternate Reality much like the Man in the High Castle.

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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:56 pm

+1 didn't read the resolution.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Sethtekia
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Posts: 165
Founded: Jun 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sethtekia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:59 pm

Wallenburg wrote:+1 didn't read the resolution.


I did read the act. But its soo vague that it can be intepretted as such. ((OOC))
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Sethtekia
Sethtekia is a Fictional Roleplayed Nation in an alternate reality in which the Nazi's won the War, and changed itself as an organization after the successful Operation Valkyrie took place. The USSR Collapsed and in place was a loyal nation known as Sethtekia by at the time its first leader was an SS Officer.

NOTE: Holy Reich of Greater Germania is a ROLEPLAY REGION. In an alternate Reality much like the Man in the High Castle.

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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:03 pm

Sethtekia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:+1 didn't read the resolution.

I did read the act. But its soo vague that it can be intepretted as such. ((OOC))

OOC: It really couldn't. For starters, the text does not limit its protections to the poor. Genociding the rich is equally prohibited. The post right below the OP explicitly mentions this.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Sethtekia
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Founded: Jun 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sethtekia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Sethtekia wrote:I did read the act. But its soo vague that it can be intepretted as such. ((OOC))

OOC: It really couldn't. For starters, the text does not limit its protections to the poor. Genociding the rich is equally prohibited. The post right below the OP explicitly mentions this.
OOC: This prevents a government from forcefully displacing a slum out of a city of their residence correct? Well what happens if they have to move them and it gets violent. How is the police supposed to react? With turning the other cheek? The nations has full rights to forcefully move its worst off from their cities to keep the cities clean and pure.
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Sethtekia
Sethtekia is a Fictional Roleplayed Nation in an alternate reality in which the Nazi's won the War, and changed itself as an organization after the successful Operation Valkyrie took place. The USSR Collapsed and in place was a loyal nation known as Sethtekia by at the time its first leader was an SS Officer.

NOTE: Holy Reich of Greater Germania is a ROLEPLAY REGION. In an alternate Reality much like the Man in the High Castle.

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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Sethtekia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:OOC: It really couldn't. For starters, the text does not limit its protections to the poor. Genociding the rich is equally prohibited. The post right below the OP explicitly mentions this.
OOC: This prevents a government from forcefully displacing a slum out of a city of their residence correct? Well what happens if they have to move them and it gets violent. How is the police supposed to react? With turning the other cheek? The nations has full rights to forcefully move its worst off from their cities to keep the cities clean and pure.

OOC: I think it's clear enough that you aren't concerned about issues of law and order, and just don't want the WA telling you that you can't commit mass murder for people being poor.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Sethtekia
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Founded: Jun 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sethtekia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:20 pm

OOC: The World Assembly will do nothing to stop nations from doing these acts even if laws are enacted. Its a Nations right to displace economically challenged people from their cities. Especially if that its because city life is far more expensive.
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Sethtekia
Sethtekia is a Fictional Roleplayed Nation in an alternate reality in which the Nazi's won the War, and changed itself as an organization after the successful Operation Valkyrie took place. The USSR Collapsed and in place was a loyal nation known as Sethtekia by at the time its first leader was an SS Officer.

NOTE: Holy Reich of Greater Germania is a ROLEPLAY REGION. In an alternate Reality much like the Man in the High Castle.

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Grater Tovakia
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Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:43 pm

Credit to Kurczak for showing me this song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

What is with this new trend of trying to name the proposal something it's not so your average issues player votes for it.
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Lord Dominator
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Posts: 6101
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:01 pm

Grater Tovakia wrote:Credit to Kurczak for showing me this song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

What is with this new trend of trying to name the proposal something it's not so your average issues player votes for it.

"It really is quite accurate, and it presumably affects genocide of the poor more than other economic classes."
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Wabberjocky
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Posts: 21
Founded: Oct 07, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wabberjocky » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:53 pm

#3: I've never heard of extermination based upon economic status. It seems made up.
Misleading title.
Vague and arbitrary language.
AGAINST

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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6101
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:07 pm

Wabberjocky wrote:#3: I've never heard of extermination based upon economic status. It seems made up.
Misleading title.
Vague and arbitrary language.
AGAINST

"Hmm, I do wonder what all those communist revolutions are doing then..."
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Scherzinger
Envoy
 
Posts: 263
Founded: Aug 17, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Scherzinger » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:34 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Scherzinger wrote:Bloody Nora, now we are trying to be forced to spend our valuable income on refugees? I recall that our glorious nation has closed boarders. Thank Emperor it shall stay that way. So i suppose i dont see how it will change anything for our nation. Not really seeing a point that will be beneficial to my nation and her people's welfare

“No, this proposal has nothing to do this refugees nor anything to do with the state of borders in your nation. It concerns only acts of genocide against groups of people, including groups based on economic status. Therefore, this delegation wishes to announce its vote FOR this proposal.”



It literally says that i am bound to aid these swine which implies that it may require me to spend my nations money on them to provide them a better life. Last time i checked my Emperor is only concerned with the wellness of his people and allies. I dont feel like helping them if they arent citizens of Scherzinger or from her allies to be honest. Im not mad at you for voting for this trash, im mad because you lied to me.
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Caracasus
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Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:37 am

Scherzinger wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:“No, this proposal has nothing to do this refugees nor anything to do with the state of borders in your nation. It concerns only acts of genocide against groups of people, including groups based on economic status. Therefore, this delegation wishes to announce its vote FOR this proposal.”



It literally says that i am bound to aid these swine which implies that it may require me to spend my nations money on them to provide them a better life. Last time i checked my Emperor is only concerned with the wellness of his people and allies. I dont feel like helping them if they arent citizens of Scherzinger or from her allies to be honest. Im not mad at you for voting for this trash, im mad because you lied to me.


Pretty sure you are already bound to provide aid to refugees ambassador.
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