NATION

PASSWORD

[PASSED] Don't Kill the Poor Act

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.
User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

[PASSED] Don't Kill the Poor Act

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Convention Against Genocide is good. Very good. However, it does not protect economic classes, as economic status is not a "perceived innate characteristic", at least in most states. Let's fix that, so that member states can't try raising VAT and killing all the poor.

Don't Kill the Poor Act
Image
Category: Human Rights || Strength: Significant || Proposed by: Wallenburg

Celebrating a history of protecting essential sapient rights,

Recognizing historical efforts to prohibit genocide and guarantee equal rights for the citizens of member states,

Concerned that ill-intentioned governments might engage in violence against the weakest of those under its jurisdiction,

The World Assembly hereby:

  1. Recognizes systematic or otherwise intentional and statistically disproportionate violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

  2. Highlights that case-by-case imprisonment of, displacement of, or use of force against individuals does not target a general group, and so does not constitute genocide,

  3. Renders crimes against humanity any acts of genocide against any group on the basis of economic status or employment,

  4. Requires member states to render aid to individuals escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.
Last edited by Ransium on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:12 pm

(Don't) Kill the Poor Act
Category: Human Rights || Strength: Significant || Proposed by: Wallenburg

Celebrating a history of protecting essential sapient rights,

Recognizing historical efforts to prohibit genocide and guarantee equal rights for the citizens of member states,

Concerned that ill-intentioned governments might engage in violence on the weakest of those under its jurisdiction,

The World Assembly hereby:

  1. Recognizes systematic or otherwise intentional and statistically disproportionate violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

  2. Highlights that case-by-case imprisonment of, displacement of, or use of force against individuals does not target a general group, and so does not constitute genocide,

  3. Renders as crimes against humanity any acts of genocide against any group on the basis of economic status or employment,

  4. Requires member states to render aid to those escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.
(Don't) Kill the Poor Act
Category: Human Rights || Area of Strength: Significant || Proposed by: Wallenburg

Celebrating a history of protecting essential sapient rights,

Recognizing historical efforts to prohibit genocide and guarantee equal rights for the citizens of member states,

Concerned that ill-intentioned governments might engage in violence on the weakest of those under its jurisdiction,

The World Assembly hereby:

  1. Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

  2. Highlights that case-by-case imprisonment of, displacement of, or use of force against individuals does not target a general group, and so does not constitute genocide,

  3. Prohibits acts of genocide against any group on the basis of economic status or employment,

  4. Requires member states to render aid to those escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.
(Don't) Kill the Poor Act
Category: Human Rights || Area of Strength: Significant || Proposed by: Wallenburg

Celebrating a history of protecting essential sapient rights,

Recognizing historical efforts to prohibit genocide and guarantee equal rights for the citizens of member states,

Concerned that ill-intentioned governments might engage in violence on the weakest of those under its jurisdiction,

The World Assembly hereby:

  1. Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

  2. Prohibits acts of genocide against any group on the basis of economic status or employment,

  3. Requires member states to render aid to those escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.

As a footnote, I am fully aware that this also prohibits member states from exterminating the filthy bourgeoisie parasites in the workers' Revolution. As unfortunate as it might be to let them live, we all have to make compromises sometimes.
Last edited by Wallenburg on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5026
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:56 pm

Wallenburg wrote:As a footnote, I am fully aware that this also prohibits member states from exterminating the filthy bourgeoisie parasites in the workers' Revolution. As unfortunate as it might be to let them live, we all have to make compromises sometimes.


OOC:
Completely unacceptable. No support never, and frankly, how dare you.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, Male
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, Male
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, Female


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: Military Oversight announces Doctrinal Reform Plan, upcoming military trials | Former Intelligence Director Taraen Vallir, additional operatives executed | 200 year old Varat destroyer found in Balder orbit at historic shipyard location, presumed malfunction of still-installed warp drive | Archive Systems, Hyperpulse Network briefly disabled following accidental release of experimental assistance program | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6369
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:23 pm

"Looks good so far. However, the title is slightly odd by normal standards. In a sentence, brackets can be removed without changing the meaning as they clarify or provide additional detail, doing so here would be disastrous."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 971
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 am

Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

Could you please avoid calling quarantine, or other necessary security measures, genocide?
Irrespective of quarantine not being outlawed by this proposal; it should not be done.
Wallenburg wrote:--Reserved for draft history--

As a footnote, I am fully aware that this also prohibits member states from exterminating the filthy bourgeoisie parasites in the workers' Revolution. As unfortunate as it might be to let them live, we all have to make compromises sometimes.

No it does not. Just exterminate them for corruption, mistreatment, refusal to help et al.

Unfortunately, this is true for the unemployed and poor as well - crimes of sleeping in public areas, begging ...
Last edited by Old Hope on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Attempted Socialism
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1056
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:24 am

OOC: No exemption for pumping gas into Lidl while being a coldhearted pragmatist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg


Represented in the World Assembly by
Ambassador and Chairperson of the Executive International Relations Committee
Marcie Elizabeth 'MacBeth' Illum
Cui Bono, quod seipsos custodes custodiunt?
Ivory Tower Critical-Realistic Sardonic Marxist Curmudgeon
Danish Political Scientist Seeks True Love Tenure
Specialities: State development; corruption; IR theory; Vodka
Experiences: Office-running; political campaigns; navigating byzantine academia politics

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:52 am

"We are wholeheartedly in favour of resolutions to prevent the marginalisation and/or persecution of individuals on account of socioeconomic class. The Roman Catholic Federation will vote for the resolution when it heads to vote."

User avatar
Stoskavanya
Envoy
 
Posts: 207
Founded: Aug 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Stoskavanya » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:17 am

I think the key word is perceived innate characteristics, which in the doctrines you cite probably would refer to class status or employment as somewhat "innate". I don't think the words are that inflexible.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:09 pm

Kenmoria wrote:"Looks good so far. However, the title is slightly odd by normal standards. In a sentence, brackets can be removed without changing the meaning as they clarify or provide additional detail, doing so here would be disastrous."

"I am still deciding whether this should be named 'Kill the Poor Act' or 'Don't Kill the Poor Act'. Perhaps I should go for 'The Computer Says We Shouldn't Kill all the Poor so We're not Doing It' instead."
Stoskavanya wrote:I think the key word is perceived innate characteristics, which in the doctrines you cite probably would refer to class status or employment as somewhat "innate". I don't think the words are that inflexible.

Except in societies with no real economic mobility and a fixed employment rate, these are not innate characteristics, perceived or otherwise.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 971
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:56 pm

After reviewing the Convention against Genocide and possible side effects we shall not support this as long as the following issue exists:
CONVENTION AGAINST GENOCIDE:
2. Member nations are prohibited from perpetrating acts of genocide, and must take action against non-state groups undertaking such activities whithin their borders.

THIS DRAFT:
Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

RESULT:
Member nations are prohibited from removing a group from designated areas, institute population controls on groups, or forcefully isolating groups in areas.

Member nations are prohibited to...
enact quarantines.
put people in prison.
enforce the law against groups.
And this list is not exhaustive.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6369
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:31 am

"To add to the Old Hope delagation's point, removal of a group of people to a seperate area is not genocide. The word “Genocide” comes from Greek “Genos” meaning race or people, and “-cide” meaning kill. Anything that does not kill a group of people is not genocide."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:13 am

The issue here is that incarceration and quarantine are generally performed on a case-by-case basis. This proposal only applies restrictions to performing such actions against entire groups, on the basis of economic status.

As to your concerns about the use of the word "genocide" to include things other than killing people outright, you might consider the UN's definition of genocide, which reads:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I have done my best to mirror this definition without plagiarizing it in the way "Convention Against Genocide" does.

EDIT: Didn't notice you were talking IC there. I suppose you can consider the first paragraph here IC, and the rest OOC, since I can't really talk about the UNmentionable organization in any other way.
Last edited by Wallenburg on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Auralia
Senator
 
Posts: 4977
Founded: Dec 15, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Auralia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:19 am

Wallenburg wrote:Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

These acts must be perpetrated against a group with the intent to destroy that group in order to constitute genocide. This should be made clear in the proposal.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly
Last edited by Auralia on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic Commonwealth of Auralia
Also known as Railana

"Amor sequitur cognitionem."

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:20 am

Auralia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Recognizes systematic violence perpetrated against a group, forceful isolation of a group in designated areas, removal of a group from designated areas, or the forceful institution of population controls on a group as acts of genocide,

These acts must be perpetrated against a group with the intent to destroy that group in order to constitute genocide. This should be made clear in the proposal.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador

"Fair enough. I will look into making changes to suit that context."
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Auralia
Senator
 
Posts: 4977
Founded: Dec 15, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Auralia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:22 am

Wallenburg wrote:"Fair enough. I will look into making changes to suit that context."

This would also help to stave off Old Hope-style criticisms about this proposal prohibiting quarantines and such.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly
Catholic Commonwealth of Auralia
Also known as Railana

"Amor sequitur cognitionem."

User avatar
Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 971
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Auralia wrote:These acts must be perpetrated against a group with the intent to destroy that group in order to constitute genocide. This should be made clear in the proposal.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador

"Fair enough. I will look into making changes to suit that context."

It would be greatly appreciated if you could define group more narrowly; for this resolution.A group can consist of just three people.
This does not seem to be your intent.
Please do not forget to check your rework against unintended consequences due to synergy with Convention Against Genocide.
It is not what we want and, at least I hope that, not what you want.
Last edited by Old Hope on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 19235
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:16 am

OOC
I'd argue that unless there's an absolutely clear division between rich and poor (e.g. all of the rich have at least 10N each, all of the poor have no more than 1N each, and nobody has any value of 'N' in between those two limits...). which probably isn't the case in most member nations, any thresholds set for dividing a society into 'economic classes' constitute an "arbitrarily assigned and reductive categorisation" so that this would already be covered by GAR #35.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 971
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:55 am

Bears Armed wrote:OOC
I'd argue that unless there's an absolutely clear division between rich and poor (e.g. all of the rich have at least 10N each, all of the poor have no more than 1N each, and nobody has any value of 'N' in between those two limits...). which probably isn't the case in most member nations, any thresholds set for dividing a society into 'economic classes' constitute an "arbitrarily assigned and reductive categorisation" so that this would already be covered by GAR #35.

No, not really.
Everyone who needs help from the state to fend off their basic needs because they have not enough money is classified as poor.
Everyone who is poor is a problem for the society and should be killed to protect the nation.

There. Not arbitrarily assigned.
Last edited by Old Hope on Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:59 am

What's this? An old draft of some much needed legislation? Well as long as member states are prohibited from rounding up the dwarves, we may as well forbid them from killing the poor.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:00 am

Wallenburg wrote:What's this? An old draft of some much needed legislation? Well as long as member states are prohibited from rounding up the dwarves, we may as well forbid them from killing the poor.

"We still support this bill."

User avatar
Sciongrad
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3057
Founded: Mar 11, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sciongrad » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:04 am

OOC: I'm not convinced that it is currently legal, under extant WA legislation, to either systemically kill off any group on the basis of their economic status or to legally disadvantage them with the intention of displacing or isolating them. First, the Genocide Convention prohibits genocide against any "identifiable group of persons on the basis of [...] a perceived innate characteristic." Discrimination on the basis of economic status is generally predicated on some belief system that presupposes certain undesirable innate characteristics in the poor (e.g., lazy, criminal, etc.) or even the wealthy for that matter (oppressive, bourgeois, greedy). Even then, wouldn't CoCR prohibit unequal treatment on the basis of a reductive categorization, like economic status? And wouldn't systemic murder or isolation constitute deliberately inequitable legal treatment in violation of CoCR? The WA already outlaws summary execution, so surely there must be some legal basis, even if it's merely a pretext, for mass execution. But this legal basis can't violate CoCR, and I believe any legal regime that permits the mass execution, deportation, isolation, etc. of any group within a society violates CoCR, prima facie. Would you agree?
Last edited by Sciongrad on Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


Ideological Bulwark #271


User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:24 am

Sciongrad wrote:OOC: I'm not convinced that it is currently legal, under extant WA legislation, to either systemically kill off any group on the basis of their economic status or to legally disadvantage them with the intention of displacing or isolating them. First, the Genocide Convention prohibits genocide against any "identifiable group of persons on the basis of [...] a perceived innate characteristic." Discrimination on the basis of economic status is generally predicated on some belief system that presupposes certain undesirable innate characteristics in the poor (e.g., lazy, criminal, etc.) or even the wealthy for that matter (oppressive, bourgeois, greedy). Even then, wouldn't CoCR prohibit unequal treatment on the basis of a reductive categorization, like economic status? And wouldn't systemic murder or isolation constitute deliberately inequitable legal treatment in violation of CoCR? The WA already outlaws summary execution, so surely there must be some legal basis, even if it's merely a pretext, for mass execution. But this legal basis can't violate CoCR, and I believe any legal regime that permits the mass execution, deportation, isolation, etc. of any group within a society violates CoCR, prima facie. Would you agree?

No. I imagine killing the poor, in this sense, not to be a matter of any perceived characteristic of the poor, but rather, a perceived economic burden that maintaining their standard of living, in compliance with extant resolutions, entails. A more sinister regime certainly could assert that "leeching off the welfare system" without maintaining employment is a criminal activity, and thus could kill the unemployed. The reasons for killing wealthy individuals would be even easier to justify for these sinister regimes--by maintaining excessive stockpiles of wealth, the rich engage in "theft" of their own society and of the poor.

Either way, I imagine, the reasons for engaging in socioeconomic genocide are not on the basis of a characteristic. Nations have thousands of ways to justify it within the confines of CoCR.

User avatar
Sciongrad
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3057
Founded: Mar 11, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sciongrad » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:29 am

United Massachusetts wrote:Either way, I imagine, the reasons for engaging in socioeconomic genocide are not on the basis of a characteristic. Nations have thousands of ways to justify it within the confines of CoCR.

OOC: How could you justify executing or isolating or deporting only poor people without violating CoCR? If we recognize that CoCR does not cover laws that exist only as a pretext to allow discrimination on the basis of one type of reductive categorization, we must recognize that it allows similar loopholes for all types, and the whole thing is undone.
Last edited by Sciongrad on Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


Ideological Bulwark #271


User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 19235
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:00 am

United Massachusetts wrote:No. I imagine killing the poor, in this sense, not to be a matter of any perceived characteristic of the poor, but rather, a perceived economic burden that maintaining their standard of living, in compliance with extant resolutions, entails. A more sinister regime certainly could assert that "leeching off the welfare system" without maintaining employment is a criminal activity, and thus could kill the unemployed. The reasons for killing wealthy individuals would be even easier to justify for these sinister regimes--by maintaining excessive stockpiles of wealth, the rich engage in "theft" of their own society and of the poor.

Either way, I imagine, the reasons for engaging in socioeconomic genocide are not on the basis of a characteristic. Nations have thousands of ways to justify it within the confines of CoCR.

Now consider the combination of:
GA Resolution #79 'Ban on Ex Post Facto Laws' (which says that you can't punish people for actions carried out before the laws making those actions illegal were actually passed),

GA Resolution #323 'No Penalty Without Law' (which says that you can't punish people for their actions without having passed a law that criminalises those actions).

GA Resolution #344 'Minimum Standard of Living Act' (which requires member nations to guarantee a minimum standard of living to their peoples: trying to criminalise dependence on the nation by people who really can't support themselves seems a pretty clear violation of this)

GA Resolution #375 'Crime and Punishment' (particularly clause 4, which forbids the use of execution as a penalty for nonviolent crimes).
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 971
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:24 am

Bears Armed wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:No. I imagine killing the poor, in this sense, not to be a matter of any perceived characteristic of the poor, but rather, a perceived economic burden that maintaining their standard of living, in compliance with extant resolutions, entails. A more sinister regime certainly could assert that "leeching off the welfare system" without maintaining employment is a criminal activity, and thus could kill the unemployed. The reasons for killing wealthy individuals would be even easier to justify for these sinister regimes--by maintaining excessive stockpiles of wealth, the rich engage in "theft" of their own society and of the poor.

Either way, I imagine, the reasons for engaging in socioeconomic genocide are not on the basis of a characteristic. Nations have thousands of ways to justify it within the confines of CoCR.

Now consider the combination of:
GA Resolution #79 'Ban on Ex Post Facto Laws' (which says that you can't punish people for actions carried out before the laws making those actions illegal were actually passed),

GA Resolution #323 'No Penalty Without Law' (which says that you can't punish people for their actions without having passed a law that criminalises those actions).

GA Resolution #344 'Minimum Standard of Living Act' (which requires member nations to guarantee a minimum standard of living to their peoples: trying to criminalise dependence on the nation by people who really can't support themselves seems a pretty clear violation of this)

GA Resolution #375 'Crime and Punishment' (particularly clause 4, which forbids the use of execution as a penalty for nonviolent crimes).

Actually, you are quite wrong. One could argue that fulfilling the Minimum Standard of Living Act, if you lack the necessary resources, practically requires you to kill enough people to be able to fulfill the duties for the rest. In this case, killing isn't a punishment for a crime either, but rather a necessary thing for the government to do - just like taxes aren't the punishment for a crime.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads