[PASSED] Liberate Nazi Europa

[Sarakart]

I admit that the KREICH Liberation is complicated because KREICH's issue is cultural and not one of regional infrastructure.

Nazi Europa, however, has "Nazi" right in the name. There's no "well they may not be Nazis so I don't know" murkiness. This is a Nazi region. What is there to oppose here, unless you truly believe in protecting those who wish nothing but death on others they consider "subhuman"?

I've already explained this multiple times. I don't care if they're Nazis. I don't care if they're communist, or fascist, or whatever. Liberations are meant to be used on founderless regions that have been the target of invasion. Appeals to emotion have no place in law, whether on here or in the real world.

Pointedly, this is not actually how law works, either here or in the real world. Hate speech laws are relatively common across the west, and the preamble of the American constitution is a literal "appeal to emotion". Laws are constructed upon beliefs and principles combined with empirical knowledge of what works and what does not- but what defines "working" is those principles.

[Hearre]

>appeals to emotion have no place in law

Maybe if you're a hardcore legal positivist who strongly believes in the separation of legislative and judicial decisions. Maybe. Further, it's really not obvious that this a jurisprudence issue - we're not a judiciary, we are the entirety of the community, and the breadth of our concerns reflects that. It's a political issue, and political issues always hinge on appeals to emotion or intuition, because you can't logically prove some end is worth pursuing.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

Full Support. Good work, LN.

[The Atlae Isles]

I admit that the KREICH Liberation is complicated because KREICH's issue is cultural and not one of regional infrastructure.

Nazi Europa, however, has "Nazi" right in the name. There's no "well they may not be Nazis so I don't know" murkiness. This is a Nazi region. What is there to oppose here, unless you truly believe in protecting those who wish nothing but death on others they consider "subhuman"?

I've already explained this multiple times. I don't care if they're Nazis. I don't care if they're communist, or fascist, or whatever. Liberations are meant to be used on founderless regions that have been the target of invasion. Appeals to emotion have no place in law, whether on here or in the real world.

Liberations are not meant nor entitled to anything, really, especially since fundamentally it's the democratic voice of the WA intervening in the R/D cycle, if you choose to look at it that way. Thus, it can be used in any way the WA sees fit.

[Lord Dominator]

I've already explained this multiple times. I don't care if they're Nazis. I don't care if they're communist, or fascist, or whatever. Liberations are meant to be used on founderless regions that have been the target of invasion. Appeals to emotion have no place in law, whether on here or in the real world.

Liberations are not meant nor entitled to anything, really, especially since fundamentally it's the democratic voice of the WA intervening in the R/D cycle, if you choose to look at it that way. Thus, it can be used in any way the WA sees fit.

Or as it sees fit not to use, as is the case with the occasional raided region

[Chricoma]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

[Blood Wine]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

[Lord Dominator]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

^Very much this

[Prydania]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

This. Nazis don’t deserve to have their opinions respected or protected.

[Syberis]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

Obviously we all can't, because RTL is currently actively shitting themselves over the KR and NE liberations, because they think they'll be targeted down the road or some such.

Men, women, and other assorted sentients and sapients of the SC... if you're scared that you'll be targeted next, you certainly need to take a breath and re-evaluate the situation when you calm down. If there's still comparisons between your region, KR, and NE besides the most basic and generic labels, some additional introspection might absolutely be necessary.

[Fauxia]

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

Obviously we all can't, because RTL is currently actively shitting themselves over the KR and NE liberations, because they think they'll be targeted down the road or some such.

Men, women, and other assorted sentients and sapients of the SC... if you're scared that you'll be targeted next, you certainly need to take a breath and re-evaluate the situation when you calm down. If there's still comparisons between your region, KR, and NE besides the most basic and generic labels, some additional introspection might absolutely be necessary.

Where did you pull RTL from? And, who says they are all against?

[Syberis]

Obviously we all can't, because RTL is currently actively shitting themselves over the KR and NE liberations, because they think they'll be targeted down the road or some such.

Men, women, and other assorted sentients and sapients of the SC... if you're scared that you'll be targeted next, you certainly need to take a breath and re-evaluate the situation when you calm down. If there's still comparisons between your region, KR, and NE besides the most basic and generic labels, some additional introspection might absolutely be necessary.

Where did you pull RTL from? And, who says they are all against?

viewtopic.php?p=33641702#p33641702

Apologies. UMass briefly freaking out because the liberation of KR will apparently result in offensive liberations of right-wing regions in general, followed up by many individuals saying offensive liberations shouldn't be used because... (???)

Before UMass calmed down and supported this, there was quite a hilarious little stint of... ridiculousness, to put it bluntly. And while this one was supported, we can't discount the insanity that has occurred over the past few days.

[Chricoma]

Against, I am against any resolution that weaponizes the WA as a way to censor regions

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

No because that turns us into nazis

[Syberis]

The one thing we can all agree on is that censoring literal nazis is a good idea

No because that turns us into nazis

That's uh... not how it works.

[Chricoma]

No because that turns us into nazis

That's uh... not how it works.

Uhh... it kinda is.

Fascism and Nazism censors those who oppose them, so it is now right for us the censor them? Also if we are censoring Nazis why not censor Communism which has killed more people than any fascist regime in the Contemporary era ever did

[Sarakart]

That's uh... not how it works.

Uhh... it kinda is.

Fascism and Nazism censors those who oppose them, so it is now right for us the censor them? Also if we are censoring Nazis why not censor Communism which has killed more people than any fascist regime in the Contemporary era ever did

There are a lot more regimes than just Nazis who "censor those who oppose them", leaving aside this isn't actually censorship, which is a concept that applies to the government restricting the speech of civil society.

[Chricoma]

Uhh... it kinda is.

Fascism and Nazism censors those who oppose them, so it is now right for us the censor them? Also if we are censoring Nazis why not censor Communism which has killed more people than any fascist regime in the Contemporary era ever did

There are a lot more regimes than just Nazis who "censor those who oppose them", leaving aside this isn't actually censorship, which is a concept that applies to the government restricting the speech of civil society.

Well no censorship isn't just the government, companies can censor as well (Less in a society of restricted capitalism). But I was not saying that it is only nazis who censor in fact was saying the opposite! Communists censor their people aswell.

[Syberis]

There are a lot more regimes than just Nazis who "censor those who oppose them", leaving aside this isn't actually censorship, which is a concept that applies to the government restricting the speech of civil society.

Well no censorship isn't just the government, companies can censor as well (Less in a society of restricted capitalism). But I was not saying that it is only nazis who censor in fact was saying the opposite! Communists censor their people aswell.

Looking to your signature I can't help but think you might potentially be a little bit biased here

[The Australian Federal Republic]

While all Fascist governments perform censorship, all governments who perform censorship are not fascists. I'll let Monty Python explain this phenomenon.

[Chricoma]

Well no censorship isn't just the government, companies can censor as well (Less in a society of restricted capitalism). But I was not saying that it is only nazis who censor in fact was saying the opposite! Communists censor their people aswell.

Looking to your signature I can't help but think you might potentially be a little bit biased here

You are absolutely right!

Also thanks for pointing out my sig, i need update my little contradictions in there

[Forestavia]

First they came for the Nazis but I wasn't a Nazi. Then they came for the communists but I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the off color joke regions but was wasn't an off color joke person....

Look, the point that I've been trying to make for the past few days is this. We the nations of the World Assembly have turned our world government upside down by using the Security Council as a weapon against regions that are deemed to be ideologically "bad". But here's the problem with that. By doing this we have ourselves become the authoritarians.

I don't know about you people but I would prefer to live in a world filled with militant Nazis and militant feminists and militant communists and militant fascists and militant monarchists and militant psychotic dictatorships functioning as individual regions than I would in a world where the world government misuses and abuses its power in an authoritarian way. We have reduced ourselves to the very evil we are claiming to fight.

Give this darn region a condemnation and move on! What's that? A badge of honor? Well then, indifference is the best way to fight extremism is it not?

I know that I'm going to begin to sound like a broken record but we cannot continue this insanity. We are threatening Proletaire, Nazi Europa Administrator, and Scansinia by forcing an unwanted liberation down the throats of their regions. These so-called liberations are not liberations, they are warzone creations. And one day when these founders cease to exist each of these regions will be turned into warzones. And when the "liberations" are repealed, these regions will be invaded, passworded, and refounded.

We could be looking at a great refugee crisis - a diaspora if you will - on a global scale months down the road the likes of which we have never seen before due to our reckless actions this week. Don't believe me?

KAISERREICH - 258
The Red Fleet - 3
Nazi Europa - 207
The Internationale - 504

We are now looking at a total of nearly 1,000 nations who could potentially be effected if the founders were to cease to exist. And these resolutions keep on coming. The nations of these sovereign regions deserve to have a fighting chance to password their region if their founder ceases to exist. It makes no sense to liberate these people from themselves. They deserve the right to govern their sovereign regions their own way without any interference from us. How would you feel if it was your region that was targeted?

Leave these regions alone! We have no business sticking our nose in their internal affairs. I am and will remain strongly against these fake liberations. I urge the nations of the world to vote AGAINST this mess. Please member states, turn from this path of destruction. We are not supposed to be the arbiter of threats and chaos but we are supposed to be an arbiter of peace and harmony.

[Jar Wattinree]

First they came for the Nazis but I wasn't a Nazi. Then they came for the communists but I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the off color joke regions but was wasn't an off color joke person....

Look, the point that I've been trying to make for the past few days is this. We the nations of the World Assembly have turned our world government upside down by using the Security Council as a weapon against regions that are deemed to be ideologically "bad". But here's the problem with that. By doing this we have ourselves become the authoritarians.

I don't know about you people but I would prefer to live in a world filled with militant Nazis and militant feminists and militant communists and militant fascists and militant monarchists and militant psychotic dictatorships functioning as individual regions than I would in a world where the world government misuses and abuses its power in an authoritarian way. We have reduced ourselves to the very evil we are claiming to fight.

Give this darn region a condemnation and move on! What's that? A badge of honor? Well then, indifference is the best way to fight extremism is it not?

I know that I'm going to begin to sound like a broken record but we cannot continue this insanity. We are threatening Proletaire, Nazi Europa Administrator, and Scansinia by forcing an unwanted liberation down the throats of their regions. These so-called liberations are not liberations, they are warzone creations. And one day when these founders cease to exist each of these regions will be turned into warzones. And when the "liberations" are repealed, these regions will be invaded, passworded, and refounded.

We could be looking at a great refugee crisis - a diaspora if you will - on a global scale months down the road the likes of which we have never seen before due to our reckless actions this week. Don't believe me?

KAISERREICH - 258
The Red Fleet - 3
Nazi Europa - 207
The Internationale - 504

We are now looking at a total of nearly 1,000 nations who could potentially be effected if the founders were to cease to exist. And these resolutions keep on coming. The nations of these sovereign regions deserve to have a fighting chance to password their region if their founder ceases to exist. It makes no sense to liberate these people from themselves. They deserve the right to govern their sovereign regions their own way without any interference from us. How would you feel if it was your region that was targeted?

Leave these regions alone! We have no business sticking our nose in their internal affairs. I am and will remain strongly against these fake liberations. I urge the nations of the world to vote AGAINST this mess. Please member states, turn from this path of destruction. We are not supposed to be the arbiter of threats and chaos but we are supposed to be an arbiter of peace and harmony.

KAISERREICH has 31 WA nations
The Internationale has 111 WA nations
The Red Fleet has zero WA nations
Nazi Europa has 24 WA

All added up, it is a total of 166 unique nations. The rest all are either a) puppets or b) foreign representatives. It's not a global crisis.

Again, all this toothless resolution will do is keep the Founders of the regions on their toes, implicitly telling them that if they screw up their regions will pay the price.

Beyond that, I'll leave Tim's words to conclude:

I've got a question for all the people acting all outraged in this thread, and pleading for people to vote against,what do you actually hope to accomplish?

This is going to pass. The GCRs will block any repeal attempts just like they have facilitated the passage of this current proposal. Why waste your time?

When Kaiserreich's founder inevitably CTEs one day, whether by natural causes or by the hammer of Moderation, the region will be torched. It won't even take that long, honestly. I doubt I'm the only person out there with a high-influence sleeper in the region.

Y'all aren't gonna convince us that the region isn't fascist, and the vast majority of you outraged folks don't know even close to enough about R/D to be able to stop us when the founder does CTE. If you don't want to be targeted, don't spout fascist ideology, don't harbor fascists in your regions, and do not associate with fascists.

You whine that this is Tyranny by Majority. You're damn right it is. If you don't like it, find a different game. Your outrage isn't gonna change shit.

[Forestavia]

First they came for the Nazis but I wasn't a Nazi. Then they came for the communists but I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the off color joke regions but was wasn't an off color joke person....

Look, the point that I've been trying to make for the past few days is this. We the nations of the World Assembly have turned our world government upside down by using the Security Council as a weapon against regions that are deemed to be ideologically "bad". But here's the problem with that. By doing this we have ourselves become the authoritarians.

I don't know about you people but I would prefer to live in a world filled with militant Nazis and militant feminists and militant communists and militant fascists and militant monarchists and militant psychotic dictatorships functioning as individual regions than I would in a world where the world government misuses and abuses its power in an authoritarian way. We have reduced ourselves to the very evil we are claiming to fight.

Give this darn region a condemnation and move on! What's that? A badge of honor? Well then, indifference is the best way to fight extremism is it not?

I know that I'm going to begin to sound like a broken record but we cannot continue this insanity. We are threatening Proletaire, Nazi Europa Administrator, and Scansinia by forcing an unwanted liberation down the throats of their regions. These so-called liberations are not liberations, they are warzone creations. And one day when these founders cease to exist each of these regions will be turned into warzones. And when the "liberations" are repealed, these regions will be invaded, passworded, and refounded.

We could be looking at a great refugee crisis - a diaspora if you will - on a global scale months down the road the likes of which we have never seen before due to our reckless actions this week. Don't believe me?

KAISERREICH - 258
The Red Fleet - 3
Nazi Europa - 207
The Internationale - 504

We are now looking at a total of nearly 1,000 nations who could potentially be effected if the founders were to cease to exist. And these resolutions keep on coming. The nations of these sovereign regions deserve to have a fighting chance to password their region if their founder ceases to exist. It makes no sense to liberate these people from themselves. They deserve the right to govern their sovereign regions their own way without any interference from us. How would you feel if it was your region that was targeted?

Leave these regions alone! We have no business sticking our nose in their internal affairs. I am and will remain strongly against these fake liberations. I urge the nations of the world to vote AGAINST this mess. Please member states, turn from this path of destruction. We are not supposed to be the arbiter of threats and chaos but we are supposed to be an arbiter of peace and harmony.

KAISERREICH has 31 WA nations
The Internationale has 111 WA nations
The Red Fleet has zero WA nations
Nazi Europa has 24 WA

All added up, it is a total of 166 unique nations. The rest all are either a) puppets or b) foreign representatives. It's not a global crisis.

Again, all this toothless resolution will do is keep the Founders of the regions on their toes, implicitly telling them that if they screw up their regions will pay the price.

Beyond that, I'll leave Tim's words to conclude:

I've got a question for all the people acting all outraged in this thread, and pleading for people to vote against,what do you actually hope to accomplish?

This is going to pass. The GCRs will block any repeal attempts just like they have facilitated the passage of this current proposal. Why waste your time?

When Kaiserreich's founder inevitably CTEs one day, whether by natural causes or by the hammer of Moderation, the region will be torched. It won't even take that long, honestly. I doubt I'm the only person out there with a high-influence sleeper in the region.

Y'all aren't gonna convince us that the region isn't fascist, and the vast majority of you outraged folks don't know even close to enough about R/D to be able to stop us when the founder does CTE. If you don't want to be targeted, don't spout fascist ideology, don't harbor fascists in your regions, and do not associate with fascists.

You whine that this is Tyranny by Majority. You're damn right it is. If you don't like it, find a different game. Your outrage isn't gonna change shit.

Wow. Typical. How typical for us here in this chamber to think that we are more important than non-WA nations. Non-WA nation lives matter too! Do not be proud. The number is not 166. It is 972. All of these nations are important to the world and every nation contains at least 5 million citizens. So we're talking about nearly 5 billion citizens at the bare minimum (NS stats). But we both know that figure is way higher.

So I don't want to hear that this isn't a global crisis. It is. Why do you think I'm fighting so hard against these fake liberations? The madness will only continue. These figures will increase. The ripples of fear and anxiety will grow. And nations throughout our world will quake in fear as they wonder whether the Security Council is coming for them next.

[The Atlae Isles]

KAISERREICH has 31 WA nations
The Internationale has 111 WA nations
The Red Fleet has zero WA nations
Nazi Europa has 24 WA

All added up, it is a total of 166 unique nations. The rest all are either a) puppets or b) foreign representatives. It's not a global crisis.

Again, all this toothless resolution will do is keep the Founders of the regions on their toes, implicitly telling them that if they screw up their regions will pay the price.

Beyond that, I'll leave Tim's words to conclude:

Wow. Typical. How typical for us here in this chamber to think that we are more important than non-WA nations. Non-WA nation lives matter too! Do not be proud. The number is not 166. It is 972. All of these nations are important to the world and every nation contains at least 5 million citizens. So we're talking about nearly 5 billion citizens at the bare minimum (NS stats). But we both know that figure is way higher.

So I don't want to hear that this isn't a global crisis. It is. Why do you think I'm fighting so hard against these fake liberations? The madness will only continue. These figures will increase. The ripples of fear and anxiety will grow. And nations throughout our world will quake in fear as they wonder whether the Security Council is coming for them next.

I am the proud puppet master of 200+ Nations, with hundreds of millions (if not billions) of citizens. Does anyone care what happen to them? I don’t. Why does it matter, then, of the sheer number of citizens, things that ultimately don’t matter Region-wise?

The madness has not continued. No Liberation of communist regions have been submitted or have made queue.

I think you give the Security Council too much credit for how much power it actually has.

[Jar Wattinree]

KAISERREICH has 31 WA nations
The Internationale has 111 WA nations
The Red Fleet has zero WA nations
Nazi Europa has 24 WA

All added up, it is a total of 166 unique nations. The rest all are either a) puppets or b) foreign representatives. It's not a global crisis.

Again, all this toothless resolution will do is keep the Founders of the regions on their toes, implicitly telling them that if they screw up their regions will pay the price.

Beyond that, I'll leave Tim's words to conclude:

Wow. Typical. How typical for us here in this chamber to think that we are more important than non-WA nations. Non-WA nation lives matter too! Do not be proud. The number is not 166. It is 972. All of these nations are important to the world and every nation contains at least 5 million citizens. So we're talking about nearly 5 billion citizens at the bare minimum (NS stats). But we both know that figure is way higher.

So I don't want to hear that this isn't a global crisis. It is. Why do you think I'm fighting so hard against these fake liberations? The madness will only continue. These figures will increase. The ripples of fear and anxiety will grow. And nations throughout our world will quake in fear as they wonder whether the Security Council is coming for them next.

Sure, but I'm not exactly RPing as if this is the GA; I treat the Security Council as another facet of Gameplay, which is something else.