Srianna Gestane wrote:Prydania wrote:Then you’re not a very good Nazi, because National Socialim advocates genocide as the central tenant.
I don't think this is accurate--it's not 'the central tenet'. I think they advocated genocide because it was convenient to scapegoat minority groups to create an 'other' to oppose and unite 'against'. What they wanted, centrally, was for the majority of the population to be working together as part of a great machine with a common interest. Creating that machine, maintaining it, and expanding its power, was more important than extermination. They used some groups as slave labour in factories, which they wouldn't have done if genocide was their first priority.
This doesn't really absolve them at all, but it helps understand that they weren't purely destructive,
they had some values that had to do with their pride and the national welfare, which they pursued even when it would have been easier to conduct mayhem, in some cases. That doesn't excuse their blaming minority groups for everything, even when they weren't at fault... but they had to fight back against
someone in response to the overly punitive Versailles treaty. Rather than contest it diplomatically, or overtly, they chose to fight back against weaker groups that were relatively innocent, and that--combined with their horrific success and methods--is why it's so easy to villainize them today.
Sorry to say but this is a typical false belief, an old propaganda by nazis that never really got debunked on a widescale as it seems, even until this day, since I read it again and again.
Their "national welfare" really only went as far as their social status in the end. In fact, this was very much present on the first day Hitler gained power, by exterminating the SA, an in short: Lowerclass militia, and in his favor installing the SS, an upperclass "militia" under direct controll of Hitlers henchmen, coming either from selected families(where "inappropiate traits" like glasses or the fact that you are less then 1,75cm tall etc. where sometimes "overlooked", there were requirements to be accepted into the SS, alongside other qualities too) or strongly enough bearing the "genetic traits" that Hitler wanted. Only those where let into the SS, it was meant to be an elite, nationalized unit after all. Even if the rules were as mentioned sometimes bended.
Another direct debunkal of this argument includes the fact that Hitler at some point exterminated literally anyone "undesirable", and in his view undesirable where: Germans that had "too much jewish blood" in them, and also physicaly and mentaly retarded people amongst other groups which where all slowly added by more and more reforms. He exterminated them nearly all, well those few that survived the ordeal of his regime anyway, the last ones remaining that were been taken care by their family etc. where ultimately often also exterminated in raids or what he called "checks". Which also touches the next point i´ll explain more in detail below. This itself goes back to a law that was meant to ban something like quote... "Jews, niggers retards and their scum offspring" or something like that... Let my try to google it... There we go, but a bit more detailed...:
"Rassenschande (auch Blutschande genannt) war im nationalsozialistischen Deutschen Reich ein verbreiteter Propagandabegriff, mit dem sexuelle Beziehungen zwischen Juden – nach der Definition der NS-Rassegesetze – und Staatsangehörigen „deutschen oder artverwandten Blutes“ verunglimpft wurden. Ehen zwischen Juden und „Deutschblütigen“ wurden als Rassenverrat bezeichnet. 1935 wurden Eheschließungen und sexuelle Kontakte dieser Art verboten und mit Haftstrafen bedroht.
Eine wenig später erlassene Verordnung weitete das Eheverbot auf andere Gruppen aus: Es sollten grundsätzlich alle Ehen unterbleiben, die die „Reinerhaltung des deutschen Blutes“ gefährdeten. Ein Rundschreiben zählte dazu „Zigeuner, Neger und ihre Bastarde“ auf.[1] "
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrnberger_GesetzeWhich basically reads: Raceshame(or also called "blood shame"), something that happens when "german blooded" sexually mate with "non german blooded" people, especially jews. This is part of the long list of the so called "Nürnberger Gesetze", which started pretty simple and mostly aimed at jews, which was later extended, to also include quote: "Niggers, gipsies and their bastards" and later on even retarded people(or slavic people too as you may know), where we come to in this section:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationals ... Behinderte"Besonders stark betroffen von der „Aufartungspolitik“ der Nationalsozialisten waren physisch, psychisch und geistig behinderte Anstaltsinsassen. Ihre Krankheit konnte für sie unter anderem Sterilisation, Misshandlung durch Vernachlässigung und medizinische Versuche sowie (fälschlich so genannte) Euthanasie bedeuten. Aber auch Menschen mit Behinderungen außerhalb der Anstalten waren nicht sicher vor der nationalsozialistischen Politik. Der Begriff von geistig und seelisch Kranken in der NS-Zeit war sehr weit gefasst. Das Zeugnis von Nachbarn und Polizisten, familiäre Hintergründe, der Schulabschluss und dubiose Fragebögen, in denen vor allem Kulturwissen abgefragt wurde, konnten zur Einordnung als „Schwachsinnige(r)“, und somit zur Sterilisation führen. Außerdem gab es die Kategorie der „moralischen Schwachsinnigkeit“, was bedeutete, dass der diagnostischen Subjektivität alle Türen offen standen. Der Übergang von „schwachsinnig“ zu „asozial“ war fließend."
Part of the "national socialist race hygiene", which in turn as you can read at the top of the article is also part of the "Nürnberger Rassengesetze"(Nürnbergian race laws).
The quoted part itself summarized says that: Especially mentaly and physicaly retarded people of mental institutions where hit very hard by this policy. This also included people outside of mental institutions which weren´t always safe either. The term mentaly or physicaly retarded was a very lose term in the NS-regime. Simple and also false testimonies by neigbours, work colleauges, police etc. but also questionings and question sheets by dubios groups or also insitutions for instance when you get your 10th grade, could easily lead to a labeling as "nutcase"(schwachsinniger) which had dire conequences. Which include incarceration, sterilization, euthanasia(death), and abuse by maltreatment or also medical research, lab rats in short.
That plus our next point: Hitler at some point removed poor houses(armenhäuser), and replaced them with "work houses"(arbeitshäuser), which ran essentially like before with the only differences...: Nothing was free in a work house, no matter how sick, old or whatever or not you had to work to get your shelter and food. Costs were cut for them, as a result there was lack of food, hygiene and medicine which led to widespread epidemics and the death of many, if not by malnutrition then by simple disease or more epidemic germs such as the somewhat well known thyphus(or typhiod fever, which by today for instance is practicaly eradicated in Germany). But who cares about a few "undesirables" eh? While the poor houses where shelter and a meal for the unfortunate even if albeit not a proper one given Germanies economic situation in those times, these "work houses" where practicaly slavery, and of course the result of that were a lof of deaths too, which also includes germans as germans were not excempted from work houses, though of course albeit much less likely to end up in one. Anyone in a "work house" though officially not employed, was dubbed an "employed" person in the statistics. This helped Hitler to falsify his unemployment statistics to more desirable levels.
Unfortunately I cannot find the article nor any other appropriate link, only some references, for example on a book that deals with education on nazism after the war(during the 70s more precisely) which mentions a homework by a student that mentions these "arbeitshäuser". So sadly I cannot add a proper source for this one, my bad.
Anyhow this should nonetheless be plenty enough to show that Hitlers "national welfare" is a joke. Not every German citizen, even those he would have considered "pureblooded", has seen this glorified "national welfare", in fact mostly only the upper and middle class saw any benefits of that national welfare, the rest kicked the bucket, or was even abused, killed or openly executed like in the examples above. As a result an estimated 1-3 million Germans died(lack a source at hand for that one too, sry) at the hands of the NS regime too(not counting those in that died by war, but by Hitlers reforms and death squads only directly or indirectly).
Jews and other minorities without a doubt suffered the most, however an often ignored fact is that many germans suffered under Hitlers regime too. Not all of them saw the glories of the NS regime, a huge portion of them in fact saw the opposite, poverty and hell, and not few met their death through it, and many many more germans may have survived but suffered a lot too.
It is really time we got rid of the notion that "Nationalsocialism was abhorent but you can argue that it benefited the germans overall", this is simply not true, as the majority like in all fascist regimes suffered at the lower end of the food chain. And even in so called "nationalsocialism" germans were not automaticaly priviliged and excempted from maltreatment and exploitation. Just like you are not automaticaly priviliged just because you´re white, while the majority or a certain percentage of course will be. It´s pretty much the same for the NS regime.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:55 am
