[PASSED] Liberate KAISERREICH

[The Great-German Empire]

So in a sense, I could just password the region when I know I will be gone for a while, such as for military training purposes etc.

Freidenkreich here. How's life in KR? You could just activate vacation mode, too, and hope that once every two months you can get to a phone.

[West Leas Oros]

So in a sense, I could just password the region when I know I will be gone for a while, such as for military training purposes etc.

You should probably leave before you are metaphorically lynched for thought crime.

[Jar Wattinree]

Define totalitarian dictatorship. If you're trying to equivocate the World Assembly to an ideology that has caused misery and suffering for millions of people, there must have been some mistake in translation some time ago, including the fact that on a browser based web game you can do anything and not be oppressed at all.

If there is no totalitarianism here, why are you so uppity about fascism in the first place? It can't do any harm in this 'browser based web game'.

Because fascism is usually connected to Nazism. Nazism, in turn, is an ideology that inspires many, many teenagers to make racist memes and insensitive jokes about the victims of Nazism, such has denying the Holocaust and mocking the Jewish people, among other things. Nazism is therefore an extremely odious ideology that is universally despised by Gameplay and will be curb stomped out by any means, up to and including usage of the World Assembly legislation to carry out these goals.

This was never about totalitarianism -- there's an entire region devoted to totalitarianism in all forms, except Nazism or fascism, just look up Psychotic Dictatorships, led by DEAREST LEADER Menta Lee-IL. They're also, as a region, opposed to the SCUMBAG WA. Don't change the argument, it won't help your defense.

[The Great-German Empire]

So in a sense, I could just password the region when I know I will be gone for a while, such as for military training purposes etc.

You should probably leave before you are metaphorically lynched for thought crime.

Tell me, are you also socialist IRL? I already admire you for defending all beliefs despite social pressure... But this's be even more of a pleasant surprise.

[Kavagrad]

And that is where our fundamental disagreement lies. You would let their actions go unpunished. That, as far as I'm concerned, is immoral, if not criminal.

How are their actions immoral? because they disagree with you.

Are you arguing that Fascism isn't immoral?

[United Massachusetts]

My God--do none of you get the point of the free speech argument? It merely is saying that on principle, the WA shouldn't be shutting down the natural rights of free association afforded even to KAISERREICH.

[West Leas Oros]

You should probably leave before you are metaphorically lynched for thought crime.

Tell me, are you also socialist IRL? I already admire you for defending all beliefs despite social pressure... But this's be even more of a pleasant surprise.

I am IRL socialist. I believe in nationalized production, the abolition of private property, and am devoted to Marxist thought.

[Sarakart]

My God--do none of you get the point of the free speech argument? It merely is saying that on principle, the WA shouldn't be shutting down the natural rights of free association afforded even to KAISERREICH.

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

[Scansinia]

So in a sense, I could just password the region when I know I will be gone for a while, such as for military training purposes etc.

Freidenkreich here. How's life in KR? You could just activate vacation mode, too, and hope that once every two months you can get to a phone.

Oh hello there,

I know, but just in case training takes more than a couple of months.

Thank you for the suggestion.

[Makko Oko]

I know this is really controversial, but after reading Cormac's posts I went ahead and did it. Please for the love of god don't turn this into a thread of warnings. Moderation, I'm sorry in advance if it goes nuts in here.

The Security Council,

Noting that KAISERREICH at this point in time is not yet founderless;

Appalled by KAISERREICH’s apparent disregard towards others, as well as the regions use of Nazi propaganda and swastikas;

Abhorred by the regions use of hate speech behind closed doors in its hallowed halls;

Believing that a region such as KAISERREICH, who hides their true nature so as to lure unsuspecting new nations to them, does not deserve the right to be protected by this august body;

Further Believing that liberating KAISERREICH will serve as a warning to other Nazi and Fascist regions, a warning that if they try to hide their true nature the Security Council will take action;

Acknowledging that liberating KAISERREICH, which has built its reputation on lies and falsehoods as well as attempting to eliminate ideologies different than theirs, will leave the region open to invasion after its founder leaves;

The Security Council hereby liberates KAISERREICH.

This is not needed at all! Let it be raided heh

[The Great-German Empire]

Because fascism is usually connected to Nazism. Nazism, in turn, is an ideology that inspires many, many teenagers to make racist memes and insensitive jokes about it, such has denying the Holocaust and mocking the Jewish people, among other things. Nazism is therefore an extremely odious ideology that is universally despised by Gameplay and will be curb stomped out by any means, up to and including usage of the World Assembly legislation to carry out these goals.

This was never about totalitarianism -- there's an entire region devoted to totalitarianism in all forms, except Nazism or fascism, just look up Psychotic Dictatorships, led by DEAREST LEADER Menta Lee-IL. They're also, as a region, opposed to the SCUMBAG WA. Don't change the argument, it won't help your defense.

Didn't change anything, it was just another front of attack you exposed yourself to. But what you just said right now is revealing: The reason why you'd 'curd-stomp out' an ideology from the better part of this game is not because of any actual harm, but because a couple more teenagers might just build up enough misguided courage to cough up some racist memes which will hurt no-one at all. This is SJW bullshit and, while I'm not going to try and stomp THAT out like you try to (even if I could, which I cannot), I will not stand for it and call it a reasonable endeavor. This witch hunt is useless, tiresome and detrimental.

[The Great-German Empire]

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

Spoken like a true control freak.

[The Great-German Empire]

Are you arguing that Fascism isn't immoral?

Fascism itself? Not inherently. Most of us hate it because it's dictatorial, because it's overbearing and because it spawned the infinitely-worse Nazism. But it contains ideas which, while useless to my philosophy, perhaps someone else could use.

[United Massachusetts]

How are their actions immoral? because they disagree with you.

Are you arguing that Fascism isn't immoral?

And do you not see where that argument leads?

Person A: Are you arguing that communism isn't immoral? (liberates The Internationale)
Person B: Are you arguing that Trumpism isn't immoral? (liberates some Trump-themed region)
Person C: Are you arguing that conservatism isn't immoral? (liberates NSRight, or some rightist group)
Person D: Are you arguing that religion isn't immoral? (liberates Catholic)
Person E: Are you arguing that anti-abortionism isn't immoral? (liberates Right to Life)

By starting this waterfall, we are empowering the majority of NS to shut down the minority thereof. If private organizations want to raid Trump regions, or NSRight, or Catholic, or Right to Life, so be it. The WA shouldn't be involved in it.

[The Great-German Empire]

I am IRL socialist. I believe in nationalized production, the abolition of private property, and am devoted to Marxist thought.

Then, a toast to the free marketplace (ironic) of ideas!

[United Massachusetts]

My God--do none of you get the point of the free speech argument? It merely is saying that on principle, the WA shouldn't be shutting down the natural rights of free association afforded even to KAISERREICH.

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

Huh? Do you mean to deny that free association is a right?

[Sarakart]

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

Spoken like a true control freak.

It is not an uncontroversial opinion in political philosophy that the conception of natural rights, derived not from laws, customs, humanism, and popular sovereignty, but instead from some kind of primordial ooze from which the whole of humanity spilled forth, is not in use.

In any case, the free peoples of nationstates are more than aware of the situation. It does not take an ideologue to see why people dislike KR. You call it a witch hunt, well. KAISERREICH has comprehensively failed to convince anyone opposed to it that it is not harboring witches, so I suppose now's the hour to root them out.

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

Huh? Do you mean to deny that free association is a right?

Free Association is a right accorded through the laws and customs of the civil society, not by a natural, primordial state of man to which Rousseau demanded we all return to. That's not how modern political thought works, and there's nothing in here particularly impeding free association...any more than past liberations always have.

[Reploid Productions]

Within that "merely" is a whole lot of axioms, including the idea that anyone has "natural rights" to anything.

Spoken like a true control freak.

Plz to dial it back, this is veering uncomfortably close to attacking the poster, rather than attacking their argument.

[The Great-German Empire]

Spoken like a true control freak.

Plz to dial it back, this is veering uncomfortably close to attacking the poster, rather than attacking their argument.

My apologies. It was indeed unnecessary for me to do that.

[Kavagrad]

Are you arguing that Fascism isn't immoral?

And do you not see where that argument leads?

Person A: Are you arguing that communism isn't immoral? (liberates The Internationale)
Person B: Are you arguing that Trumpism isn't immoral? (liberates some Trump-themed region)
Person C: Are you arguing that conservatism isn't immoral? (liberates NSRight, or some rightist group)
Person D: Are you arguing that religion isn't immoral? (liberates Catholic)
Person E: Are you arguing that anti-abortionism isn't immoral? (liberates Right to Life)

By starting this waterfall, we are empowering the majority of NS to shut down the minority thereof. If private organizations want to raid Trump regions, or NSRight, or Catholic, or Right to Life, so be it. The WA shouldn't be involved in it.

I think the majority of NS are far too moderate to straight-up try and liberate most right-wing regions (which is clearly your priority here), except those that are fascist. If you think that those views will be seen as comparable to fascism by the majority of NS, then I can only disagree.

[Jar Wattinree]

Because fascism is usually connected to Nazism. Nazism, in turn, is an ideology that inspires many, many teenagers to make racist memes and insensitive jokes about it, such has denying the Holocaust and mocking the Jewish people, among other things. Nazism is therefore an extremely odious ideology that is universally despised by Gameplay and will be curb stomped out by any means, up to and including usage of the World Assembly legislation to carry out these goals.

This was never about totalitarianism -- there's an entire region devoted to totalitarianism in all forms, except Nazism or fascism, just look up Psychotic Dictatorships, led by DEAREST LEADER Menta Lee-IL. They're also, as a region, opposed to the SCUMBAG WA. Don't change the argument, it won't help your defense.

Didn't change anything, it was just another front of attack you exposed yourself to. But what you just said right now is revealing: The reason why you'd 'curd-stomp out' an ideology from the better part of this game is not because of any actual harm, but because a couple more teenagers might just build up enough misguided courage to cough up some racist memes which will hurt no-one at all. This is SJW bullshit and, while I'm not going to try and stomp THAT out like you try to (even if I could, which I cannot), I will not stand for it and call it a reasonable endeavor. This witch hunt is useless, tiresome and detrimental.

Unfortunately, this so-called "witch-hunt" is not at all useless and is backed up by most of Gameplay.

"Hurting no one at all" -- excuse me. *laughs*

You may think those memes won't hurt anybody, but have you considered that they hurt you instead? No one is seriously offended or injured by some pixels on a screen, but it does lower their opinion of the poster dramatically. Reputation in an online community takes a long time to build and a very short time to lose. Trust me, I have seen reputations in communities fail drastically because someone made a wrong turn, and was instantly eviscerated. KReich seems determined to keep itself ostracized by Gameplay. So let them. This won't change the facts, and nor will it change Gameplay's opinion for as long as fascism and Nazism exists.

[United Massachusetts]

And do you not see where that argument leads?

Person A: Are you arguing that communism isn't immoral? (liberates The Internationale)
Person B: Are you arguing that Trumpism isn't immoral? (liberates some Trump-themed region)
Person C: Are you arguing that conservatism isn't immoral? (liberates NSRight, or some rightist group)
Person D: Are you arguing that religion isn't immoral? (liberates Catholic)
Person E: Are you arguing that anti-abortionism isn't immoral? (liberates Right to Life)

By starting this waterfall, we are empowering the majority of NS to shut down the minority thereof. If private organizations want to raid Trump regions, or NSRight, or Catholic, or Right to Life, so be it. The WA shouldn't be involved in it.

I think the majority of NS are far too moderate to straight-up try and liberate most right-wing regions (which is clearly your priority here), except those that are fascist. If you think that those views will be seen as comparable to fascism by the majority of NS, then I can only disagree.

Thing is that there are already people trying to assault the right here. Tim has publicly stated that he wanted a CTE for Right to Life, for instance. Again, the argument is appealing to try and liberate the right-wing here--the conservatives are bad (something the majority of NS agrees to), and stopping bad people is good. Ergo, Liberate (insert conservative group here).

[The Great-German Empire]

It is not an uncontroversial opinion in political philosophy that the conception of natural rights, derived not from laws, customs, humanism, and popular sovereignty, but instead from some kind of primordial ooze from which the whole of humanity spilled forth, is not in use.

In any case, the free peoples of nationstates are more than aware of the situation. It does not take an ideologue to see why people dislike KR. You call it a witch hunt, well. KAISERREICH has comprehensively failed to convince anyone opposed to it that it is not harboring witches, so I suppose now's the hour to root them out.

The definition of witches is too broad, then. If the NS community at large truly believes that edgy amateur-Fascists of a barely pubescent age are a threat, then I suppose I can understand why your ad populum holds so well. But there is nothing threatening about them! Especially knowing that the upper echelon of KR doesn't seriously endorse or force this type of thought.

I am willing to admit that rights are indeed not 'inherent' - but in our society, whether face-to-face or on the Web, they are 'important' to the point where I'd be happy if they were inherent. This one's on me.

[Sarakart]

It is not an uncontroversial opinion in political philosophy that the conception of natural rights, derived not from laws, customs, humanism, and popular sovereignty, but instead from some kind of primordial ooze from which the whole of humanity spilled forth, is not in use.

In any case, the free peoples of nationstates are more than aware of the situation. It does not take an ideologue to see why people dislike KR. You call it a witch hunt, well. KAISERREICH has comprehensively failed to convince anyone opposed to it that it is not harboring witches, so I suppose now's the hour to root them out.

The definition of witches is too broad, then. If the NS community at large truly believes that edgy amateur-Fascists of a barely pubescent age are a threat, then I suppose I can understand why your ad populum holds so well. But there is nothing threatening about them! Especially knowing that the upper echelon of KR doesn't seriously endorse or force this type of thought.

I am willing to admit that rights are indeed not 'inherent' - but in our society, whether face-to-face or on the Web, they are 'important' to the point where I'd be happy if they were inherent. This one's on me.

I understand your position. Let me make that clear. But I just fundamentally disagree. I don't find anything particularly harmless about a library's full of vile anti-semitic jokes that members of KR responded to without (with a few exceptions I will happily note) a hint of apology or retraction. I am not interested in the indoctrination tactics inherent that encourage people to normalize such vile bigotry, or that the response has been an all-around refusal to condone or concede. This is on top of a previously poor reputation as associating with fascist regions, which were recanted and then instantly tarnished by screenshots that most people find inextricably vile.

[The Great-German Empire]

Unfortunately, this so-called "witch-hunt" is not at all useless and is backed up by most of Gameplay.

"Hurting no one at all" -- excuse me. *laughs*

You may think those memes won't hurt anybody, but have you considered that they hurt you instead? No one is seriously offended or injured by some pixels on a screen, but it does lower their opinion of the poster dramatically. Reputation in an online community takes a long time to build and a very short time to lose. Trust me, I have seen reputations in communities fail drastically because someone made a wrong turn, and was instantly eviscerated. KReich seems determined to keep itself ostracized by Gameplay. So let them. This won't change the facts, and nor will it change Gameplay's opinion for as long as fascism and Nazism exists.

Just because many people back it doesn't mean it's any use, Again, it's just your tired as populum argument.
Indeed, people can lose quite a bit of reputation with just memes. I personally don't consider it the right order of things, but if it is, so what? KR merely refuses to stamp such behavior out, that doesn't count as downright supporting all of it! But let's go further, and presume that KR is indeed a repulsive, stinking den of pure fascism. In that case, there is of course no problem with ostracizing them. But even so, you don't have to try and stamp them out to 'ostracize' them - just don't come into contact! KR is a region which just sits there and occasionally raids small founderless regions. It won't suddenly arrange a move into your region to spam in your RMB. Just ignore them if you like, don't build an embassy. Encouraging their destruction when quite literally nobody suffers is, as I said, needless.

You see? I stretched out the truth like a thin rubber rope to try and make your logic hold water. It really doesn't.