[PASSED] Liberate KAISERREICH

[Lenlyvit]

I'm not crazy. I'm not. I, and others, just believe that due to KREICH's jokes about Jews and other things in their discord such as about the Holocaust, and their knowing use of Nazi imagery in dispatches and apparently on their forum, is cause enough to remove their ability to protect themselves if they ever go founderless. The Security Council, and World Assembly, should not protect regions such as theirs. I will be submitting this to vote in the near future.

I'm not siding or anything but if these are jokes just like you just said, then isn't all of this effort useless?

They say they are jokes, but do not read as so.

Edit: I edited the post to make it clearer.

[Reutoa]

I'm not siding or anything but if these are jokes just like you just said, then isn't all of this effort useless?

They say they are jokes, but do not read as so.

Edit: I edited the post to make it clearer.

Just because you don't think it's a joke, doesn't mean it isn't one. People find different things to be funny.

[Lenlyvit]

They say they are jokes, but do not read as so.

Edit: I edited the post to make it clearer.

Just because you don't think it's a joke, doesn't mean it isn't one. People find different things to be funny.

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

Edit: Sarcasm^

[Reutoa]

Just because you don't think it's a joke, doesn't mean it isn't one. People find different things to be funny.

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

It isn't physically hurting anyone is it? Again it is just a joke, let people joke about what they want too.

[La Navasse]

Just because you don't think it's a joke, doesn't mean it isn't one. People find different things to be funny.

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

Edit: Sarcasm^

I support your intentions, but I don't think that Liberating the target region is the best way to go around showing them. Indeed, it does make them vulnerable if their Founder ever CTEs or is Deleted, but that's the only function it provides, and the Liberation would do nothing other than threaten. If we should Liberate KAISERREICH by this logic, then there are many other unpleasant regions we should also preemptively Liberate as well. Honestly, though, I don't believe preemptive Liberations of founded regions have a purpose nor support the Security Council's dogma of "spreading interregional peace and goodwill" - it's simply a threat that threatens.

If we are to take action against KAISERREICH, it should be in infiltrations and preventing them from ever occupying any region (such as The Communal Confederacy). Liberating the region itself feels a little over the top.

[Sarakart]

I was sent the KR discord pics and I don't believe it's a joke. And in any case, if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

Is a liberation forever, as long as it is not repealed?

[La Navasse]

I was sent the KR discord pics and I don't believe it's a joke. And in any case, if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

Is a liberation forever, as long as it is not repealed?

Liberations can always be repealed, though a Liberation of an active Founder region would simply prevent the Delegate from enforcing any password if and only if the Founder either CTEs or is Deleted.

[Reutoa]

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

Edit: Sarcasm^

I support your intentions, but I don't think that Liberating the target region is the best way to go around showing them. Indeed, it does make them vulnerable if their Founder ever CTEs or is Deleted, but that's the only function it provides, and the Liberation would do nothing other than threaten. If we should Liberate KAISERREICH by this logic, then there are many other unpleasant regions we should also preemptively Liberate as well. Honestly, though, I don't believe preemptive Liberations of founded regions have a purpose nor support the Security Council's dogma of "spreading interregional peace and goodwill" - it's simply a threat that threatens.

If we are to take action against KAISERREICH, it should be in infiltrations and preventing them from ever occupying any region (such as The Communal Confederacy). Liberating the region itself feels a little over the top.

My idea in General, there are so many more bad regions then KAISERREICH that could actually be punished for more serious crimes then just some bad memes & jokes.

[Sarakart]

I was sent the KR discord pics and I don't believe it's a joke. And in any case, if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

Is a liberation forever, as long as it is not repealed?

Liberations can always be repealed, though a Liberation of an active Founder region would simply prevent the Delegate from enforcing any password if and only if the Founder either CTEs or is Deleted.

So this would only come into fundamental effect if and when the KR founder CTEs/is deleted. Before that it have only symbolic effect, as a slightly less toothless condemnation?

[Reutoa]

I was sent the KR discord pics and I don't believe it's a joke. And in any case, if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

Is a liberation forever, as long as it is not repealed?

By your own logic lots of my own school are probably Nazis for bad "jokes" then.

[La Navasse]

Liberations can always be repealed, though a Liberation of an active Founder region would simply prevent the Delegate from enforcing any password if and only if the Founder either CTEs or is Deleted.

So this would only come into fundamental effect if and when the KR founder CTEs/is deleted. Before that it have only symbolic effect, as a slightly less toothless condemnation?

Well, it is supposed to emulate the meaning behind a Condemnation without giving KR the honor of a Condemnation. I must say, however, that it's definitely bending former interpretations of Security Council Resolution types.

[Hemuraile]

if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

I don't think Reutoa said that those jokes are funny, but that those jokes are jokes.

[Reutoa]

if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

I don't think Reutoa said that those jokes are funny, but that those jokes are jokes.

That is exactly what I meant, thank you for clearing that out.

[Sarakart]

I was sent the KR discord pics and I don't believe it's a joke. And in any case, if your social skills are so deficient that you believe calling Jews slurs and joking about gassing them all is funny, then your stupidity is inseparable from Nazi malice.

Is a liberation forever, as long as it is not repealed?

By your own logic lots of my own school are probably Nazis for bad "jokes" then.

Sure, if people in your school are constantly making jokes about denying the holocaust, that it was the right thing to do, and calling jews slurs, then maybe they are Nazis, or at least anti-semites. This whole line of argument is enormously weak. I understand that many people might live sheltered lives that lead them to believe that it is acceptable to make outrageous jokes for the sake of an "anti-pc" stand, but in most places that just gets you punched in the face.

Think of this as getting punched in the face in an online browser game.

So this would only come into fundamental effect if and when the KR founder CTEs/is deleted. Before that it have only symbolic effect, as a slightly less toothless condemnation?

Well, it is supposed to emulate the meaning behind a Condemnation without giving KR the honor of a Condemnation. I must say, however, that it's definitely bending former interpretations of Security Council Resolution types.

What is the former interpretation of SC resolutions of this type? I assume what you're saying is a liberation as a form of condemnation without the positives of condemnation nowadays is stretching the usual application of what liberations are.

[Neo-Potentheon]

Just because you don't think it's a joke, doesn't mean it isn't one. People find different things to be funny.

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

Edit: Sarcasm^

You want to punish us for dark humor. For free speech. Sounds kind of... Fascist...

[Lenlyvit]

Yes, jokes about killing Jews and how the Holocaust didn't do enough is totally okay.

Edit: Sarcasm^

You want to punish us for dark humor. For free speech. Sounds kind of... Fascist...

I'm actually more of a Democratic Socialist. Proud Bernie supporter here

[La Navasse]

Well, it is supposed to emulate the meaning behind a Condemnation without giving KR the honor of a Condemnation. I must say, however, that it's definitely bending former interpretations of Security Council Resolution types.

What is the former interpretation of SC resolutions of this type? I assume what you're saying is a liberation as a form of condemnation without the positives of condemnation nowadays is stretching the usual application of what liberations are.

Exactly.

[Sarakart]

What is the former interpretation of SC resolutions of this type? I assume what you're saying is a liberation as a form of condemnation without the positives of condemnation nowadays is stretching the usual application of what liberations are.

Exactly.

Okay. I understand. What would the drawbacks be of putting this forward, then? You don't like the precedent it sets?

I think the fundamental problem is that if condemnations are badges of honor, the condemnation system breaks down. People are looking for alternative ways to show collective disapproval of other regions, and it's not clear how to do it.

I assume a potential alternative would be to liberate regions taken by KR.

[La Navasse]

Exactly.

Okay. I understand. What would the drawbacks be of putting this forward, then? You don't like the precedent it sets?

I think the fundamental problem is that if condemnations are badges of honor, the condemnation system breaks down. People are looking for alternative ways to show collective disapproval of other regions, and it's not clear how to do it.

I assume a potential alternative would be to liberate regions taken by KR.

The Liberation, in my opinion, doesn't do much other than threaten the instant invasion of KR once it becomes Founderless. I find absolutely no reason why the Delegate would want to set a password while the Founder exists, so the Liberation wouldn't essentially do anything with an active Founder.

Indeed, I dislike the sort of precedent it sets. The Condemnation system has already broken down, as it allots no consequences other than a dark WA badge stamped upon the Condemned region or nation. Liberations actually do action towards a region, and therefore the author has decided that the consequences of a Liberation would be far more meaningful than a Condemnation.

We have already liberated The Communal Confederacy from KR, but it doesn't appear to have any other founderless, locked down regions.

[Reutoa]

By your own logic lots of my own school are probably Nazis for bad "jokes" then.

Sure, if people in your school are constantly making jokes about denying the holocaust, that it was the right thing to do, and calling jews slurs, then maybe they are Nazis, or at least anti-semites. This whole line of argument is enormously weak. I understand that many people might live sheltered lives that lead them to believe that it is acceptable to make outrageous jokes for the sake of an "anti-pc" stand, but in most places that just gets you punched in the face.

Think of this as getting punched in the face in an online browser game.

Well, it is supposed to emulate the meaning behind a Condemnation without giving KR the honor of a Condemnation. I must say, however, that it's definitely bending former interpretations of Security Council Resolution types.

What is the former interpretation of SC resolutions of this type? I assume what you're saying is a liberation as a form of condemnation without the positives of condemnation nowadays is stretching the usual application of what liberations are.

It's not necessarily a Huge majority of my school but people do make jokes, and I wouldn't necessarily call them Neo-Nazis or anti-Semitic, I know these people really well. Most of them are in sports and are just edgy. They're usually just looking for attention, not wanting to purge a entire race off the face of the Planet. I would hope people wouldn't punch you just because you make a bad joke, unless your ANTIFA then I wouldn't be surprised if you punched the man/women. Jokes are meant to be funny, if someone fails really badly at this, how about you just choose to ignore them and move on? The people that punch the people that told those Nazi jokes are more Fascist then them for silencing their Free Speech.

[Vojvodina-Hohenberg]

Did the Condemnation system every really function effectively in the terms you're using it? The way I see it, the Condemnation expresses the international community's, as a whole, discontent with a certain organization or individual. It warns the "mainstream" of the IC, so to speak, to stay away from such organizations. It's not surprising that said organizations consider it a sign of accomplishment, and it is quite similar to cases of real world leaders affected by UN or American sanctions/censure. Liberating largely irrelevant regions associated with KR, or passing a (ultimately symbolic) motion to liberate KR itself, really does the same thing in terms of giving us notoriety and support from other anti-establishment regions, without really causing harm to KR.

also bls am not nazi

[Sarakart]

Sure, if people in your school are constantly making jokes about denying the holocaust, that it was the right thing to do, and calling jews slurs, then maybe they are Nazis, or at least anti-semites. This whole line of argument is enormously weak. I understand that many people might live sheltered lives that lead them to believe that it is acceptable to make outrageous jokes for the sake of an "anti-pc" stand, but in most places that just gets you punched in the face.

Think of this as getting punched in the face in an online browser game.



What is the former interpretation of SC resolutions of this type? I assume what you're saying is a liberation as a form of condemnation without the positives of condemnation nowadays is stretching the usual application of what liberations are.

It's not necessarily a Huge majority of my school but people do make jokes, and I wouldn't necessarily call them Neo-Nazis or anti-Semitic, I know these people really well. Most of them are in sports and are just edgy. They're usually just looking for attention, not wanting to purge a entire race off the face of the Planet. I would hope people wouldn't punch you just because you make a bad joke, unless your ANTIFA then I wouldn't be surprised if you punched the man/women. Jokes are meant to be funny, if someone fails really badly at this, how about you just choose to ignore them and move on? The people that punch the people that told those Nazi jokes are more Fascist then them for silencing their Free Speech.

Look, it's a KR themed region that has consistent issues with Nazi jokes that they refuse to apologize for or remove members much for. If they don't want people to think those jokes are jokes, or to clamp down on them, then they need a better PR guy, because it's clear many people aren't convinced they're not Nazis. I don't care about free speech in a browser game, this isn't the government censoring civil society. Edgy people should expect that people will think their edginess is sincere bigotry, and if you are so concerned about free speech then you shouldn't be objecting to others using their free speech to call out the edgelords.

This is an extremely consistent issue with the NS right that I've seen in every attempt to unite them- poor organization, clear divisions, and the obvious fact that there are Nazis and Fascists among them. I don't necessarily think every person in the KR is a Nazi, but I'm not seeing a great deal of effort to distance themselves.

Okay. I understand. What would the drawbacks be of putting this forward, then? You don't like the precedent it sets?

I think the fundamental problem is that if condemnations are badges of honor, the condemnation system breaks down. People are looking for alternative ways to show collective disapproval of other regions, and it's not clear how to do it.

I assume a potential alternative would be to liberate regions taken by KR.

The Liberation, in my opinion, doesn't do much other than threaten the instant invasion of KR once it becomes Founderless. I find absolutely no reason why the Delegate would want to set a password while the Founder exists, so the Liberation wouldn't essentially do anything with an active Founder.

Indeed, I dislike the sort of precedent it sets. The Condemnation system has already broken down, as it allots no consequences other than a dark WA badge stamped upon the Condemned region or nation. Liberations actually do action towards a region, and therefore the author has decided that the consequences of a Liberation would be far more meaningful than a Condemnation.

We have already liberated The Communal Confederacy from KR, but it doesn't appear to have any other founderless, locked down regions.

I understand that, but what I'm asking about is why the precedent is necessarily bad. Interpretations change over time, after all, and beyond the concern about the expansion of the term I'd like some more substantive details on the problems behind using liberations this way. Personally it sounds like an interesting way to open up the game's meta to a more elastic application of liberations. Beyond changing what is normally used for liberations, what are the drawbacks?

[Rrborn]

You want to punish us for dark humor. For free speech. Sounds kind of... Fascist...

I'm actually more of a Democratic Socialist. Proud Bernie supporter here

Well you're acting fascist. By your own logic that means you are fascist and these past actions shall forever outway anything you do to distance yourself from fascism.(see how dumb that sounds)

Seriously guys, this goes to everyone, punishing people for their senses of humor is something that only nazis do. We make jokes about the holocaust but none of us deny the holocaust. We make jokes about the news but none of us have encouraged violence against the jews or discriminated against anyone in our region on the basis of race, religion, or creed.

Do not become what you claim to hate by taking away people's rights on the basis of jokes.

[La Navasse]

The Liberation, in my opinion, doesn't do much other than threaten the instant invasion of KR once it becomes Founderless. I find absolutely no reason why the Delegate would want to set a password while the Founder exists, so the Liberation wouldn't essentially do anything with an active Founder.

Indeed, I dislike the sort of precedent it sets. The Condemnation system has already broken down, as it allots no consequences other than a dark WA badge stamped upon the Condemned region or nation. Liberations actually do action towards a region, and therefore the author has decided that the consequences of a Liberation would be far more meaningful than a Condemnation.

We have already liberated The Communal Confederacy from KR, but it doesn't appear to have any other founderless, locked down regions.

I understand that, but what I'm asking about is why the precedent is necessarily bad. Interpretations change over time, after all, and beyond the concern about the expansion of the term I'd like some more substantive details on the problems behind using liberations this way. Personally it sounds like an interesting way to open up the game's meta to a more elastic application of liberations. Beyond changing what is normally used for liberations, what are the drawbacks?

Having multitudes of regions that are considered for preemptive Liberations, and an excessive number of Liberations. If you're okay with such an interpretation, support it.

[Sarakart]

I understand that, but what I'm asking about is why the precedent is necessarily bad. Interpretations change over time, after all, and beyond the concern about the expansion of the term I'd like some more substantive details on the problems behind using liberations this way. Personally it sounds like an interesting way to open up the game's meta to a more elastic application of liberations. Beyond changing what is normally used for liberations, what are the drawbacks?

Having multitudes of regions that are considered for preemptive Liberations, and an excessive number of Liberations. If you're okay with such an interpretation, support it.

Sure, that's fair.