[DEFEATED] Liberate Westphalia

[Lord Dominator]

There should be ZERO tolerance for raiding and taking over regions by members of the WA. Joshuastania calls out those nations who are voting against "Liberate Westphalia" they should be ashamed of themselves and are bullies on the world stage!

Enough is enough, vote yes to liberate Westphalia. The nations/regions who perpetrated this blatant act of violating the sovereignty of Westphalia have been put on notice.......

Put on notice of what? We're well aware of many people's opinion of us
Personally I quite enjoy being the villian

[Northern Poland]

Westphalia was a great community, I agree with liberating it, as it had a very active community
So i vote
FOR

[Lavenova]

Hello, You may not know be but I was a Former Member of Westphalia, a long time ago, It was the First Region that I found and Stuck with, I think that people do need to think about this, because what if your Memory a favorite of a Region is destroyed and used as a Trophy for some trolls who think destroying Regions is a Fun time. To anyone who thinks this doesnt Matter and to everyone who will and already did Vote Against, you are only Fueling TBH and any other Group like them to continue to do this. When you don't do anything to stop them it only makes them see us as Letting it Slide. I say we need to take action again this to make this not happen ever again. By Liberating Westphalia, it takes away there control over the Region which is like a Trophy for them.

[Lord Dominator]

Westphalia was a great community, I agree with liberating it, as it had a very active community
So i vote
FOR

Fun fact, the community is just fine. They made themselves a nice surprise successor region, with ya' know a founder and apparently work is being done in backing up the RMB. No, I don't know the region off the top of my head, but it isn't terribly hard to find.

[Andsed]

RECOGNISING Westphalia as a region of historical and cultural significance to many nations of the world,

CONCERNED by the forceful invasion and occupation of Westphalia by hostile forces,

OBSERVING that the invading forces are led by The Black Hawks, an organisation twice condemned by this Council through SC #52 and SC #217,

TAKING NOTICE that the occupation is supported by Lone Wolves United, yet another organisation condemned by this Council through SC #74,

WORRIED for the future of Westphalia given the record of destruction of the aforementioned organisations,

NOTING that the region of Westphalia did not pose a threat to the invading forces prior to this incursion,

GRAVELY CONCERNED that Border Control measures have already been put in place over Westphalia by the occupying forces,

APPALLED at the forced removal of the native nations from their home and at the forceful termination of all diplomatic relations,

HORRIFIED that no native nations remain in the occupied region,

ASSERTING its commitment to regional sovereignty,

the Security Council hereby

LIBERATES Westphalia

Given that the entire native population has been removed, this will be submitted soon.

Ok while I do agree we should liberate Westphalia this is around the 2nd or 3rd time you submitted it and it has not changed. If it gets shot down which it looks like it will I would suggest you look at the criticism and edit it.

[Astravars]

RECOGNISING Westphalia as a region of historical and cultural significance to many nations of the world,

CONCERNED by the forceful invasion and occupation of Westphalia by hostile forces,

OBSERVING that the invading forces are led by The Black Hawks, an organisation twice condemned by this Council through SC #52 and SC #217,

TAKING NOTICE that the occupation is supported by Lone Wolves United, yet another organisation condemned by this Council through SC #74,

WORRIED for the future of Westphalia given the record of destruction of the aforementioned organisations,

NOTING that the region of Westphalia did not pose a threat to the invading forces prior to this incursion,

GRAVELY CONCERNED that Border Control measures have already been put in place over Westphalia by the occupying forces,

APPALLED at the forced removal of the native nations from their home and at the forceful termination of all diplomatic relations,

HORRIFIED that no native nations remain in the occupied region,

ASSERTING its commitment to regional sovereignty,

the Security Council hereby

LIBERATES Westphalia

Given that the entire native population has been removed, this will be submitted soon.

Ok while I do agree we should liberate Westphalia this is around the 2nd or 3rd time you submitted it and it has not changed. If it gets shot down which it looks like it will I would suggest you look at the criticism and edit it.

Voting fatigue is a thing. If it gets shot down the second time, there’s little chance it will pass the third, even with edits to improve it. Putting up the same failed proposal again wouldn’t exactly garner more support for it.

[Encyclopedia Foundation]

There should be ZERO tolerance for raiding and taking over regions by members of the WA. Joshuastania calls out those nations who are voting against "Liberate Westphalia" they should be ashamed of themselves and are bullies on the world stage!

Enough is enough, vote yes to liberate Westphalia. The nations/regions who perpetrated this blatant act of violating the sovereignty of Westphalia have been put on notice.......

Put on notice of what? We're well aware of many people's opinion of us
Personally I quite enjoy being the villian

Joshuastania, without raiders much of the community as we know it wouldn't exist, and all regions should take personal responsibility for their lack of security. If you're going to comment on something like this and expect to be taken seriously in any way, you shouldn't just basically say "raiding is wrong" and then make a random vague threat. Raiding is here to stay, I would recommend actually making a good point about the merit of the proposal instead of whatever this was.

Lord Dominator I agree, being the villain can be fun, and every good story needs a villain does it not? You can't exactly have "good guys" without "bad guys" and everything would just be plain and boring any other way.

[Raionitu]

I’m going to say, I’m a bit out of the loop on the whole Westphalia thing. All I know is that TBH took it over and they moved to a new region. Where they’re all gone already, does it even matter anymore?

We’d like to preserve its history of over 4,000 RMB pages.

Just to address the issue of the RMB being lost,
Traditionally, raiders almost never go for an actual refound unless there is a serious risk of loosing the region. Refounds happen when the founder still exists (such as when TBH flash refounded the white hawks) or when it is about to be liberated (I think dank memes was an example of this, could be wrong).
When there is little to no risk of the region being lost, raiders don't take the risk of a refound. There's an RMB post here showing that the founder won't be coming back. So assuming no other factors come into play, it will probably be like District 12 and the like where it is kept on lockdown, but not refounded, so the RMB is still in place. A liberation proposal that looks like it will pass drastically increases the chance of a refound, thus this proposal makes it more likely to lose the RMB.

Obviously, the region is now controlled by unknown, so they can do whatever they want regardless of what I say here.

[Lord Dominator]

Lord Dominator I agree, being the villain can be fun, and every good story needs a villain does it not? You can't exactly have "good guys" without "bad guys" and everything would just be plain and boring any other way.

Quite so, glad someone gets the point here!

[The Stalker]

I must say I am a bit surprised how this is being crushed by the GCRs. Back in the day it was given that an invaded region could get a liberation, even if the natives did mess up on something.

Guess that's a thing of the past now, no libs for weak communities.

[Encyclopedia Foundation]

Hello, You may not know be but I was a Former Member of Westphalia, a long time ago, It was the First Region that I found and Stuck with, I think that people do need to think about this, because what if your Memory a favorite of a Region is destroyed and used as a Trophy for some trolls who think destroying Regions is a Fun time. To anyone who thinks this doesnt Matter and to everyone who will and already did Vote Against, you are only Fueling TBH and any other Group like them to continue to do this. When you don't do anything to stop them it only makes them see us as Letting it Slide. I say we need to take action again this to make this not happen ever again. By Liberating Westphalia, it takes away there control over the Region which is like a Trophy for them.

I must say, as a former member of Illuminati, you stop caring after a while. This should serve as a reminder to the former residents that you need to keep your region secure, and have a backup region set in advance.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I must say I am a bit surprised how this is being crushed by the GCRs. Back in the day it was given that an invaded region could get a liberation, even if the natives did mess up on something.

Guess that's a thing of the past now, no libs for weak communities.

Defender networking is slacking. As I noted prior, not even the "gimme" GCR's + XKI that will be supporting this got online to stomp, while the opposition lobbied not only a pile of GCR's but also Euro and LKE, or stomp. Though, this one is a bit difficult, what with TNP disliking them prior over recruitment, and TWP and Osiris both being present in the operation itself.

Edit: Seriously though, we're an hour in and the biggest delegate voting for is Ransium, at 80. Did *no* pre-campaigning to fight a stomp occur? Whew.

Edit2: Oh hey there's TSP at last.

[Telta]

TBH handed the region off to Unknown, as linked in my prior post. While we'd rather prefer it not be lost by raiders, it's future is otherwise up to them, not us. We retain no physical power in the region, now executive control over operations there.

---

I'm curious why, if mainstream defending really meant this one to pass and supported it, no "for" stomp attempt was made. Where are TSP, TRR, XKI? while even those three combined only about equal TNP alone, 2500 - 1000 off the bat is far better than 2500 - 0 off the bat in terms of the lemming vote.

ah i see thank you for the clearfication

[Telta]

Quite astute of you, though you look to have failed to make the leap that both nations are the same person.

oh i know about puppet nations quite well i usually draw them out by keep information from the past the same person has sent me, in doing so, later they will forget and then that is where they slip up

[Telta]

oh and just to let The Black Hawks know, I dont really care for your raid of Westphalia, or whatever you do in the future, as out of anything, the only reason i have gotten involved with all of this is because im simply now curious on how this will all play out.

[The Stalker]

snip

That may be true, but back in the day there really wasn't a need to network. Invaded regions used to be able to turn to the WA for help, raiders had the armies, but natives had the WA.

Guess it really speaks to the impressive growth of raider influence over the past years, most GCRs no longer think average founderless regions should be able to get one by default. It's only if it's really needed, and only if the region is in perfect standing and made no mistakes. Far less mercy these days, the WA doesn't stick up for the little guy like it used to.

[Capitalist Slime]

I don't wish to implore your logic, but isn't the world overrun by raiders? Heck, the first thing I get is for a Raider group. So, I mean...isn't this all pointless? This thing will just happen again and again until they all get bored and quit. It's a sad story, but it's one that would be told by countless nations.

[Scherzinger]

i dont get it..why should i care and how does it affect me?

[Novo Razcon]

Voting for this liberation. I refuse to allow a horrific raider army to conquer yet another region, and that's coming from a literal dictatorship.

Also, I would like to post a quote that seems appropriate for this scenario.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

What happened to Westphalia could happen to any one of us, and if you vote against liberation from barbaric raiders like the Black Hawks and Unknown, then they will likely hold this grudge and refuse to permit your region's liberation.

[Razzle Dazzle]

Voting for this liberation. I refuse to allow a horrific raider army to conquer yet another region, and that's coming from a literal dictatorship.

Also, I would like to post a quote that seems appropriate for this scenario.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

What happened to Westphalia could happen to any one of us, and if you vote against liberation from barbaric raiders like the Black Hawks and Unknown, then they will likely hold this grudge and refuse to permit your region's liberation.

Well, no, that isn't true. Their are various factors surrounding the invasion of Westphalia that make it different than the average reason. First, its a founderless region with a relatively storied past, making it a juicy target for raiders. Second, it had no password or any other sort of protection to keep said raiders from flying in and snatching it. Third, its late founder razed the forums of a major raider group to the ground, so they were definitely attracting a good deal of animosity from raiders. Finally, they were members of a defender-aligned alliance, making them essentially the best possible target for a raid. Most regions don't fulfill any of those criteria, much less all of them.

Also, comparing people to Nazis has never been an effective argument on the internet.

[The Stalker]

I don't wish to implore your logic, but isn't the world overrun by raiders? Heck, the first thing I get is for a Raider group. So, I mean...isn't this all pointless? This thing will just happen again and again until they all get bored and quit. It's a sad story, but it's one that would be told by countless nations.

That's kinda my point, raiders literally control all elements now, even natives last line of defense of a liberation is now very difficult to pull off. Not counting liberate Iran, which was more to open up an old closed region, the last liberation passed was in March 2017 for South Pacific, an important old region.

As for it being pointless, I don't think it's pointless to fight for your homeland regardless the odds. There are still means to keep a founderless region safe. It just surprises me GCRs no longer think most founderless regions deserve a liberation.

[Grunenburg]

As long as the Pacific Superbloc continues to maintain the status quo this will predictably go nowhere.

[Tinhampton]

I have been sent two campaign telegrams:

Greetings to you, representatives of the WA nations of the world.

I come to you today bearing an important piece of information. Almost four weeks ago a region of over 100 nations was brutally attacked by raider forces, who then moved so many of their own nations in it became impossible for defenders to liberate it. Westphalia, the region in question, had had a vibrant role playing community, with hundreds of posts per day on its RMB and a tight community. Now it sits with few nations in it behind a password placed by those raider forces, its community scattered all over NS without a region to really call home.

I ask you to think of this community, think of the sundered friendships and sundered alliances of these nations. Look into your hearts, and ask yourselves “What if this happened to *my* community? What if I lost *my* home region?”. I ask you to vote for this liberation proposal. It would lift the invader password placed upon the region, and allow the native community to return to their home. The Security Council already failed this community once by not passing the previous resolution, let us not fail them again.

Don't let the raiders, independents, and imperialists rule this world. Stand together against raiders and what they do, and help to return these nations to the home they belong in. Vote for this liberation, and show that we stand in solidarity with the community of Westphalia.

Liberation link: page=sc

Discussion Thread link: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=437054

Sincerely,
Lenlyvit

Dear %NATION%,

I come to you to ask for your ears and your support.

Recently, you were no doubt sent a telegram by Lenlyvit asking you to support a liberation of Westphalia. Westphalia was indeed recently raided, and they were indeed recently locked and handed over to Unknown, but the reasons are less sinister than you might think.

The founder of Westphalia was infamous for his work in attempting to destroy the offsite community of Unknown. Before you have sympathy for them remember this: that this region worked for the destruction of others. It is no more deserving of existing than the raider forces Lenlyvit demonizes in his letter. In other words, Unknown is merely protecting its own community and taking justice on those who hurt it. Would you not do the same if raiders hijacked your regional forums or discord?

In fact, it is less worthy to exist than raider regions. After Westphalia's founder ceased to exist, they were repeatedly advised by defenders to LOCK THE REGION. They did not. After a leak from The Black Hawks identified the sleeper cell in Westphalia, they were told to ban and eject said sleeper. They did not.

During the raid of Westphalia, defenders did not attempt to liberate it because the previous mistakes of the natives of Westphalia had worked so well in the favor of the raiders that it was almost impossible within 12 hours of the initial raid. In other words, the natives dug their own grave so deep that defenders could not dig them out of it.

However, now the defenders want to claim this region still deserves to live. I ask you: does it? A region so mired in incompetency and in the heinous misdeeds of its founder? Your community, no doubt, has some level of competency, but Westphalia showed none. If your founder ceased to exist tomorrow, you would protect it, but they did not. I say, "Westphalia Delenda Est," and leave it at that. Any region that does not protect itself and attacks others does not deserve to exist.

Vote Against "Liberate Westphalia" if you value competency, morality, and meritocracy in regional communities.

Signed,
Imperator Iustinianus of Gibraltarica

[Gibraltarica]

I have been sent two campaign telegrams:

After all, why spend $20 to lose when you can spend $1 to win a little bigger?

[Felt Karpit]

Also, I would like to post a quote that seems appropriate for this scenario.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I get that you are going to an emotional angle, but honestly this came off as kinda funny. Using a poem about the Holocaust to describe an raid in a browser game just comes off as over dramatic. But hey, campaign how ever you want.