[DEFEATED] Protecting Freshwater From Manufacturing Bill

[He Qixin]

(OOC: It's to denote a sticky, meaning it can't go off the top topics on the forum topic list.)

OOC: Okay, thanks!

[Araraukar]

"To the Arakurian delegation, we see no reason why having a proposal being specific make some it unacceptable to you."

"Araraukarian. It is unacceptable, because it targets all nations indiscriminately regardless of whether their annual water usage is already sustainable, for some reason thinks "freshwater" equals "drinkable water", allocates WA money to be used to clean up the messes of nations who can't be arsed to deal with their own messes, duplicates an existing resolution for a large part, and because clause six now seems to punish nations that have more water than their manufacturing industry uses, not to mention that it specifies ecological and public health damages without specifying that those must be an issue before fines are assigned. Also, passing this would make more comprehensive legislation on the subject impossible."

OOC note: My objections here and here are still largely relevant.

[Kiaville]

Kiaville believes that environmental law enforcement should be made so that all member nations have the same standards regarding fresh water and its manufacturing.

[Rovikstead]

"To the Arakurian delegation, we see no reason why having a proposal being specific make some it unacceptable to you."

"Araraukarian. It is unacceptable, because it targets all nations indiscriminately regardless of whether their annual water usage is already sustainable, for some reason thinks "freshwater" equals "drinkable water", allocates WA money to be used to clean up the messes of nations who can't be arsed to deal with their own messes, duplicates an existing resolution for a large part, and because clause six now seems to punish nations that have more water than their manufacturing industry uses, not to mention that it specifies ecological and public health damages without specifying that those must be an issue before fines are assigned. Also, passing this would make more comprehensive legislation on the subject impossible."

Ambassador Amelia raises her head up from the tear-soaked surface of desk and interjects, "The reason why I felt it necessary to mandate a 30% manufacturing blue water footprint affecting all nations is because in all cases the nation of Rovikstead has witnessed, when the manufacturing industry consumes thirty percent or more of the nation's freshwater supply, there is no question; the nation's freshwater supply is at a large risk of expansive contamination or shortages. Perhaps it was not prudent to give hard numbers, but I strongly stand by this limit as it only applies to nations whose freshwater supply and the welfare of its citizens are severely at risk." The hopeless ambassador returns to sulking on her desk, writing her will on a scrap of paper, using her tears as ink.

Boris laughs, "Don't mind 'er, ambassadors," he chuckles as he drinks the last of his victory champagne. "We sincerely 'preciate the overwhelming support we've received so far for this bill, regardless of whether or not our own region, the North Pacific, hates our bill with a burning passion and sent out a region-wide telegram to vote against this bill... Sure, we might not get the popular vote bu-"
"Or anything close..." Amelia adds.
"Yes, or anything close, but we no less appreciate the support of you wonderful people in both the development of this draft and with voting. This has been a great opportunity for Rovikstead and for both of us, Amelia and I."

[Hatterleigh]

"It should depend much more on the nations at hand," Says Botrum. "This bill will affect all nations, even those who don't have a water problem. If anything, this bill should be modified to specify water-needy nations."

[Hatterleigh]

Ambassador Amelia raises her head up from the tear-soaked surface of desk and interjects, "The reason why I felt it necessary to mandate a 30% manufacturing blue water footprint affecting all nations is because in all cases the nation of Rovikstead has witnessed, when the manufacturing industry consumes thirty percent or more of the nation's freshwater supply, there is no question; the nation's freshwater supply is at a large risk of expansive contamination or shortages. Perhaps it was not prudent to give hard numbers, but I strongly stand by this limit as it only applies to nations whose freshwater supply and the welfare of its citizens are severely at risk." The hopeless ambassador returns to sulking on her desk, writing her will on a scrap of paper, using her tears as ink.

Botrum looks at the ambassador with a face of repugnance as she bawls her eyes out in the middle of an international meeting, but he quickly turns away.
"Why must we inherently go after cooperations when water is at an all time low? There are other, more innovative and under-looked ideas that we are yet to test."

[Rovikstead]

Ambassador Amelia raises her head up from the tear-soaked surface of desk and interjects, "The reason why I felt it necessary to mandate a 30% manufacturing blue water footprint affecting all nations is because in all cases the nation of Rovikstead has witnessed, when the manufacturing industry consumes thirty percent or more of the nation's freshwater supply, there is no question; the nation's freshwater supply is at a large risk of expansive contamination or shortages. Perhaps it was not prudent to give hard numbers, but I strongly stand by this limit as it only applies to nations whose freshwater supply and the welfare of its citizens are severely at risk." The hopeless ambassador returns to sulking on her desk, writing her will on a scrap of paper, using her tears as ink.

Botrum looks at the ambassador with a face of repugnance as she bawls her eyes out in the middle of an international meeting, but he quickly turns away.
"Why must we inherently go after cooperations when water is at an all time low? There are other, more innovative and under-looked ideas that we are yet to test."

OOC: For your information, she is not "bawling her eyes out." She's just sweating through her eyes.

IIC: "There is no reason for me to disagree with you there, ambassador," says the High Diplomat. "There are certainly other ways to pr'tect nations' environments and water. But Amelia-," he pauses and gestures at Amelia who slouches in her chair, preoccupied with writing her will on a napkin as she awaits for the king's guards to take her away for her inevitable public execution to come from the failure of this bill, "... Er- as I was saying... Amelia and I found the manufacturing sector to be a massive contributor to freshwater consumption and pollution. And like Amelia said earlier, this bill doesn't explicitly go after all corporations by harming them to anything close to a significant degree. The bill was designed so that it primarily targets unregulated and recklessly destroy the environment and nations' freshwater resources. Yes, it puts the responsibility of inspecting pipelines every ten years on the manufacturing industry, but we see this mandate as something essential to prevent the contamination and leakage of freshwater."
Boris reassuringly pats Amelia on the back. Amelia flails in her chair, mistaking him for the king's guard. "Now," Boris continues, "I don't think it'll be an easy fight to pass this resolution, but Amelia and I have contacted the TNP and are continuing efforts to reach out to other regions to get more support. Our support is gradually growing. Only an hour ago or so, we only had 25% of the votes to pass the bill. Now we have 30%. We're hoping for the best outcome of this bill, Amelia and I."

[Araraukar]

Ambassador Amelia raises her head up from the tear-soaked surface of desk and interjects, "The reason why I felt it necessary to mandate a 30% manufacturing blue water footprint affecting all nations is because in all cases the nation of Rovikstead has witnessed, when the manufacturing industry consumes thirty percent or more of the nation's freshwater supply, there is no question; the nation's freshwater supply is at a large risk of expansive contamination or shortages."

"You seem to be under some weird assumption that any water that leaves a river or a lake will vanish into some black hole called "manufacturing". If a nation uses sixty percent of its freshwater supply on manufacturing annually, but does so without polluting or endangering sustainability, why is it a problem?"

[Rovikstead]

Ambassador Amelia raises her head up from the tear-soaked surface of desk and interjects, "The reason why I felt it necessary to mandate a 30% manufacturing blue water footprint affecting all nations is because in all cases the nation of Rovikstead has witnessed, when the manufacturing industry consumes thirty percent or more of the nation's freshwater supply, there is no question; the nation's freshwater supply is at a large risk of expansive contamination or shortages."

"You seem to be under some weird assumption that any water that leaves a river or a lake will vanish into some black hole called "manufacturing". If a nation uses sixty percent of its freshwater supply on manufacturing annually, but does so without polluting or endangering sustainability, why is it a problem?"

"I get yer point," Boris says, "But let's say... Hmm..." Boris pauses for a moment and grabs an unopened bottle of champagne, "Let's say this champagne bottle was a nation's water supply - a nice, clean water supply. Uncontaminated 'n fresh. Also great for even'ns out. But let's say I was the nation's manufacturing sector and I take some of this nice water." He again pauses and tries to open the champagne. After an awkward, long period of struggling to remove the cork with his bare hands, a servant, on the verge of laughing from his pathetic attempt, takes the bottle from poor Boris, opens it with a corkscrew, and returns it to him. Boris then proceeds to take a mouthful of champagne, swish it in his mouth, and spit it back into the bottle. "The water supply didn't vanish into some black hole. Hell, it went back into the water supply, yeah? But the manufacturing sector - though not all industries in the manufacturing sector - may use bodies of water to dump their industrial waste in or contaminate it with rusty, ole pipin' and materials, just like how I spit my germs and saliva back into this champagne bottle. Perhaps if I was more hygienic, and maybe if I didn't take an entire mouthful, everything would be alright, but let's face it: my mouth is riddled with germs. Drinking from this champagne bottle'l be a death sense, lad,"
Ambassador Amelia adds "Boris is not joking, ambassador. A man nearly died from mistakenly drinking from Boris' cup of wine once..."
Boris laughs nervously, recollecting that terrible incident, and continues "Yeah, yeah... And we haven't even brushed 'pon topics like the leakage of water, and the adverse affects using water to cool down extremely hot factory equipment might do like killing local marine life. Like Amelia previously stated, this number is meant to target 'treme cases, and is based off of research on industrial nations of the world."

[Imperium Anglorum]

Where are these empirics that you keep claiming to have on hand?

[Rovikstead]

Where are these empirics that you keep claiming to have on hand?

OOC: Before publishing the proposal's first draft, I did some research on corporate blue water footprints, and while I cannot recall the website I found the data on, I read about how highly industrialized, western nations such as the United States has around a 20% corporate blue water footprint. Other countries such as China, which we all might recognize for its infamous for its unchecked pollution, extensive smog and discolored water, have figures ranging somewhat closely to 30%.

[Tinfect]

Where are these empirics that you keep claiming to have on hand?

OOC: Before publishing the proposal's first draft, I did some research on corporate blue water footprints, and while I cannot recall the website I found the data on, I read about how highly industrialized, western nations such as the United States has around a 20% corporate blue water footprint. Other countries such as China, which we all might recognize for its infamous for its unchecked pollution, extensive smog and discolored water, have figures ranging somewhat closely to 30%.

OOC:
I can absolutely assure you that the United States makes up for its lesser manufacturing usage, tenfold easily, in other ways, much of them likely also related to manufacturing, but excluded from the specific data.

In any case, you're going to want to produce that source.

[He Qixin]

JnJ looks at the resolution voting page.

He realizes that for nearly every one WA member who voted "For", two WA member voted "Against", and it looks like that ratio is increasing.

He sighs as he reads the resolution and realizes that TNP is right on this, "If this had been drafted for a longer period, the ratio would be [possibly] the other way around now."

[Civitatem Mundus]

I know I’m new, but we have to keep in mind we have a finite amount of drinking water. I’m fine with industrial growth but not at the expense of survivability. I would only agree with this if there was an equivalent amount of water production in exchange.

Edit: got my words backwards, I would only be for sacrificing water, if water was to be replenished

[Kenmoria]

Where are these empirics that you keep claiming to have on hand?

OOC: Before publishing the proposal's first draft, I did some research on corporate blue water footprints, and while I cannot recall the website I found the data on, I read about how highly industrialized, western nations such as the United States has around a 20% corporate blue water footprint. Other countries such as China, which we all might recognize for its infamous for its unchecked pollution, extensive smog and discolored water, have figures ranging somewhat closely to 30%.

(OOC: Lots of WA nations don't resemble RL much and you still haven't produced the actual source, also, the USA is not a good global standard as it has heavy pollution.)

[Frotesca]

Frotesca is supporter of good water.

[Luizebaland]

Luizebaland fully supports all proposals that are aimed to improve the environment for our younglings.

[Araraukar]

*snip*

"Which part of "but does so without polluting or endangering sustainability" slipped past your ears?" Johan asked sharply. He was starting to understand why Janis had always been in such a foul mood after these debates. "My point was that even if they completely failed to pollute anything thanks to, you know, actually treating wastewater appropriately before discharging it back into the freshwater ecosystem, they'd still be punished due to taking in water in the first place. Also, you should probably see a doctor. And a psychiatrist. Or possibly, if that's more your flavour, an exorcist."

OOC: The references of getting medical help/exorcism are IC references to Rovik's ambassador guy's mouth germs causing deaths, not meant to imply anything about the player behind the character.

[Sufrington]

"The people of Sufrington hold the environment in which they thrive in high regard, as do I, and I must remind this body that my people cannot sustain themselves with untreated wastewater. I will not support any legislation regarding manufacturing unless there are specific mechanisms in place to ensure that all waste is properly managed and disposed of. I don't frankly much care if it costs a bit of money here and there; I think it is a small price to pay to, you know, keep our people from dying. I should hope this body sees the logic in my statement."

[Rovikstead]

OOC: I've been searching on the internet, but cannot find the original source I used. I'll continue searching, but I do not believe I can find it.

OOC: Before publishing the proposal's first draft, I did some research on corporate blue water footprints, and while I cannot recall the website I found the data on, I read about how highly industrialized, western nations such as the United States has around a 20% corporate blue water footprint. Other countries such as China, which we all might recognize for its infamous for its unchecked pollution, extensive smog and discolored water, have figures ranging somewhat closely to 30%.

(OOC: Lots of WA nations don't resemble RL much and you still haven't produced the actual source, also, the USA is not a good global standard as it has heavy pollution.)

It was my intent to use nations such as the United States and China as examples to base the manufacturing blue water footprint on because they are so highly-industrialized, westernized nations and contribute greatly to the world's pollution.

*snip*

"Which part of "but does so without polluting or endangering sustainability" slipped past your ears?" Johan asked sharply. He was starting to understand why Janis had always been in such a foul mood after these debates. "My point was that even if they completely failed to pollute anything thanks to, you know, actually treating wastewater appropriately before discharging it back into the freshwater ecosystem, they'd still be punished due to taking in water in the first place. Also, you should probably see a doctor. And a psychiatrist. Or possibly, if that's more your flavour, an exorcist."

"Right, right..." Boris mumbles in an embarrassed tone. "Well, er-, let's see..." Boris, at a loss for a sufficient answer, looks to Ambassador Amelia to answer Ambassador Johan's question.
Ambassador Amelia sighs and lifts her head up from the puddle of tears on her desk. She wipes off the messy, drippy mascara from under her eyes and clears her throat. "Ambassador Johan, before I answer your question - which Boris rudely neglected" she pauses as she gives a deathly glare to the clueless Boris, "let me first say that it has been an honor to have worked with you and your nation's esteemed diplomats and writers on crafting and improving this proposal. Whether or not this proposal passes - though given the current votes, it seems certain that it will lose - we humbly thank the nation of Araruakar for its generosity in aiding our nation's first written proposal to the World Assembly. As for your question, while I understand what point you're making but, unless a nation gives the manufacturing sector an incentive or imposes legislation that forces them to do so, there is little benefit for an industry to extend its resources into protecting water sources before consuming it or disposing of waste. While we do not believe all manufacturing industries are inherently evil, we feel that, because of the financial expenses and resources necessary to treat water, most will not treat their water and be mindful of the security and preservation of freshwater resources. We see industries taking the time and effort to protect freshwater as an exceptionally rare case."

[Shaktirajya]

We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, hereby vote AGAINST this resolution in concert with Our regional delegate Davelands for the following reasons: Poorer nations are exempt from the provisions of this resolution and the 10 year implementation plan, We feel is NOT aggressive enough. Our nation sees the Earth as a manifestation of the Goddess Herself, and We would vote to enact more aggressive legislation protecting the environment at the expense of industry.

Vaktaha Samajavadinaha Matarajasya Shaktirajasya

[Trumps New United States]

I am voting against this bill because industry trumps the environment and ANY sort of environmental protections hurt the economy.

[Kenmoria]

I am voting against this bill because industry trumps the environment and ANY sort of environmental protections hurt the economy.

Even if you consider environment to be less important than industry, this resolution doesn't have a very serious impact on industry due to its limited scope, but a supposedly great effect upon the environment.

[NotAtlantis]

How would this have a huge affect on my nation, since my nation is based underwater and filters out salt water for our freshwater.

[Stoskavanya]

How would this have a huge affect on my nation, since my nation is based underwater and filters out salt water for our freshwater.

Don't think the definition of blue water would apply to your nation.