[PASSED] Liberate The Communal Confederacy

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

This has only made myself decide to support KAISERREICH even more- they don’t seem very Nazi or fascist. If I’m not mistaken, due to the WA classification of Triemann, they’re a bit of a leftist.

[Apostate]

Many of the player sin the region now, such as myself, were not even about when all these "forum images" and "nazi generals" were here.

That is the insane part of this, we are not talking about a Security council proposal from back THEN; even if the political accusations were true, its simply not "now". Linear thought is required here folks, progress through time!

I am suggesting we live in and deal with the now. The UNDISPUTED FACT is that the sleeper Wanton Disregard was in region, and given the password by the then native delegate (I believe he said it was animal preserve at the time, might have been Marman, not sure.) Either way the relationship between the two regions is legit, and you would be removing a Native Imposed barrier.

I believe that flies in the face of what 'defenders/independents' are attempting to portray themselves as.

Also I take insult in being called a fascist as I am within the region being labelled thus. Normally I would not care, but trying to codify my home as Fash is not cool.

You should check out our awesome Roleplay, Religion, Bank, Economics/Philosophy, Military and Police areas to see what we REALLY are about.

[Triemann]

This has only made myself decide to support KAISERREICH even more- they don’t seem very Nazi or fascist. If I’m not mistaken, due to the WA classification of Triemann, they’re a bit of a leftist.

Thank you., but I admit I can't speak for the whole region on personal beliefs lol.

Though my primary mission and duties to my region are to further its own self-interest and ensure that it has the proper view abroad, I have been in no way party to any Nazi views. None have been presented to me, either.

Kaiserreich is a meritocracy above all, and my personal beliefs (generally radical centrist) and religious beliefs have never subjected me to discrimination. I, among others, have found themselves elevated to a point of ensuring the future of the region is more careful than the past, notably by having taken anti-Nazi views.

I for one am open after all this time to looking into whether or not there has been some changing of hearts. Not everyone will be, and that's just how that is. But I'm only open to that after there's an admission that KR was a fascist region two years ago. Because it was. And its hard to believe it isn't now if you don't own up to the fact it was then.

I have no problem admitting that Kaiserreich had sympathies to which I strongly disagree. That was before my time, for I joined the region when things cooled down, then found myself in a place to enact a uniform stance the inter-regional community is blind to see. This continual harassment, despite clear evidence to the contrary, is what greatly upsets me. Especially when others take an uncompromising view on KR all the while condemning us for taking uncompromising views towards ethno-religious minorities, apparently.

The individual basis of support for different ideologies is radically different, nation to nation. What we continue to hold, though, is that there has never been state-sponsored Nazism/fascism in Kaiserreich. We have always been a Monarchy, constituted to have a legislative body, led by regional elites who were promoted for merit.

Were this 2015 to early 2016, I would agree Kaiserreich were Nazi sympathizers due to past embassies and inter-regional aggreements. Since then, we have worked to remove legitimately dangerous elements from our region and from our group of allies, but never promoted Nazism ourselves.

[Grunenburg]

Well I suppose since the Black Hawks weren't the ones who 'liberated' this region in the first place, its no wonder that this one will pass with no effort.

It is decidedly refreshing to see the Security Council work when the status quo / ruling elite aren't in threat.

[Laurenburg]

Having resided in KR for about 7 months, I struggle to see how KR is in any way "naxi", nor do I see the region as being fascist. If a proponent of this resolution would elaborate on what makes this region affiliated with either of those things, I would be pleased to take a look.

[Prydania]

So as far as KReich goes...

I have my own questions related to the aledged fascist character of the region. I have chosen to TG one of its members who have posted here, feeling that route could get me a clearer idea of how the region conducts itself than listening to people argue over CAIN’s classification. I truly hope the person I TGd responds, because I’m approaching them in good faith.
Anyone who has followed me knows I have no love for Nazis or fascists. To me though? I want to reserve those term for the people who deserve them. Labelling people who aren’t fascists as “fascist” isn’t helpful. Hence my desire to reach out to a KReich member to hear them out.

That being said? There were a few things I wanted to touch on.
First. Triemann mentioned that anti-Senitism is not inherently tied to Nazism and fascism. That’s true. It’s also a weak excuse. “A lot of people hate Jews” doesn’t justify bigotry against Jews.

Secondly, regarding the Kaiser’s anti-Semitic statement that Triemann, Rrborn, and Fox Mulderss claimed was a joke? It may very well have been. That doesn’t mean it was funny, well made, or that it didn’t cause legit offence. Yes, anyone with a bit of a proper historical education knows the differences between German Imperial Monarchism and Nazism. Still? It doesn’t take a genius to understand why a guy leader a German-sounding region raging about Jews might not send the right message.
It would probably do the region as a whole a lot of good to admit it was a tasteless joke that doesn’t reflect the region’s values. Rather than use “it’s a joke!” as a defence.

Finally? I’m quite willing to believe that KReich is not a fascist or Nazi region, but I’m not naive. Some of those sorts (like the Kek people) will find it attractive.
So it’s very hard for me to take Rrborn’s claim that they’re not a fascist seriously when they’re sporting an anime character in a WWII-era German military uniform.

[Rrborn]

It looks like there's still quite a lot of influence between the lead and the highest influence native, and the endorsement counts here are low. So normally I would doubt it was time for this yet - but it looks like this has been going on for a long time now. So I guess fair enough.

We. Aren't. Fascists.

Let's review that evidence, shall we?<snip>

I wanted to address this because I feel like you lot like to hide behind the fact the people who criticize your region as fascist are from the left / far left. If either of you are too young to remember: My region voted to join an alliance (ANTICOM) with your region several years ago. And I left the region I founded in protest that it would align with a fascist region (your region). At the time I based that upon the fact your forum had a massive swastika flag as a background. I would be horrified to sit with that image displaying on my computer for long periods of time. It's just totally unthinkable to me that a bunch of you all didn't see a huge problem with that. Also, at the time, you had an embassy with Nazi Europa which I understand you now closed.. But why did you have one?

I for one am open after all this time to looking into whether or not there has been some changing of hearts. Not everyone will be, and that's just how that is. But I'm only open to that after there's an admission that KR was a fascist region two years ago. Because it was. And its hard to believe it isn't now if you don't own up to the fact it was then.

Were. We might have been once, but those days are over and have been for a long time. The people who once lead our region down that dark path have since CTE'd or been cast aside. I was not politically involved with KR 2 years ago, but I can tell you that it is very different from what it is today. That is why our embassy with Nazi Europa was closed and that forum abandoned. At least, I think it has been. I've never gone to it and I've never really seen it promoted. We mostly hang ouy on discord now and there isn't a swastika.

But I agree, that swastika on our forum must have been quite disturbing.

[Prydania]

Again, Rrborn, your claims that you aren’t fascist are undercut by your anime Wehrmacht avatar.

[Rrborn]

So as far as KReich goes...

I have my own questions related to the aledged fascist character of the region. I have chosen to TG one of its members who have posted here, feeling that route could get me a clearer idea of how the region conducts itself than listening to people argue over CAIN’s classification. I truly hope the person I TGd responds, because I’m approaching them in good faith.
Anyone who has followed me knows I have no love for Nazis or fascists. To me though? I want to reserve those term for the people who deserve them. Labelling people who aren’t fascists as “fascist” isn’t helpful. Hence my desire to reach out to a KReich member to hear them out.

That being said? There were a few things I wanted to touch on.
First. Triemann mentioned that anti-Senitism is not inherently tied to Nazism and fascism. That’s true. It’s also a weak excuse. “A lot of people hate Jews” doesn’t justify bigotry against Jews.

Secondly, regarding the Kaiser’s anti-Semitic statement that Triemann, Rrborn, and Fox Mulderss claimed was a joke? It may very well have been. That doesn’t mean it was funny, well made, or that it didn’t cause legit offence. Yes, anyone with a bit of a proper historical education knows the differences between German Imperial Monarchism and Nazism. Still? It doesn’t take a genius to understand why a guy leader a German-sounding region raging about Jews might not send the right message.
It would probably do the region as a whole a lot of good to admit it was a tasteless joke that doesn’t reflect the region’s values. Rather than use “it’s a joke!” as a defence.

Finally? I’m quite willing to believe that KReich is not a fascist or Nazi region, but I’m not naive. Some of those sorts (like the Kek people) will find it attractive.
So it’s very hard for me to take Rrborn’s claim that they’re not a fascist seriously when they’re sporting an anime character in a WWII-era German military uniform.

Ok, my flag is the easiest point to explain so I'll address it first. Its actually not a German soldier, its a "Rrborn" soldier. Its from one of the very first RP's I was ever in, drawn for me based off the description of my soldiers. I'll admit, the styles of uniform are similiar but it's not the same. It's only on there for sentimental value because that RP is where I met most of my friends and started really becoming active in Kreich.

Also, I am Fox Mulder. I am the head of the Kreich army, and I have been for a couple months. Now, the joke about the jews was a joke. I wasn't around to see it but I know the Kaiser, he's never seemed like an anti semite. Was in poor taste? Yea, and? Lots of jokes are in poor taste. That doesn't mean it reflects the values of an entire region. I think Triemann's point about anti semitism being not being inherent tofascism was about this situation, but I'll agree it's a little weak.

[Rrborn]

Again, Rrborn, your claims that you aren’t fascist are undercut by your anime Wehrmacht avatar.

Not quite

[Princess Luna Gangleader of Boil Heights]

If I may ask how does the government and influential people in Kaiserreich respond to this post by the founder?
Scansinia post

I don't know about you but this really reflect good on your region. Even if it's labeled as German imperialist monarchy, the attitudes by the founder and the likes given is just awful

[Rrborn]

If I may ask how does the government and influential people in Kaiserreich respond to this post by the founder?
Scansinia post

Its...a post about KR nationalism with a god of war 3 song...what am I supposed to be reacting to?

[Princess Luna Gangleader of Boil Heights]

If I may ask how does the government and influential people in Kaiserreich respond to this post by the founder?
Scansinia post

Its...a post about KR nationalism with a god of war 3 song...what am I supposed to be reacting to?

Who r these heathens, barbarians and heretics he's referring to?

[Laurenburg]

Again, Rrborn, your claims that you aren’t fascist are undercut by your anime Wehrmacht avatar.

To be fair, the Imperial German Army used very similar uniforms in the last half of World War I.

[Prydania]

Ok, my flag is the easiest point to explain so I'll address it first. Its actually not a German soldier, its a "Rrborn" soldier. Its from one of the very first RP's I was ever in, drawn for me based off the description of my soldiers. I'll admit, the styles of uniform are similiar but it's not the same. It's only on there for sentimental value because that RP is where I met most of my friends and started really becoming active in Kreich.

Eh, it still reminds me of the soldiers who sent my family to concentration camps *shrug*
I don’t think you’re a Nazi or fascist but that’s the honest-to-G-d reaction I get from it. I’m not asking you go change it, but yeah. It may help you understand why some jump to the conclusion that you’re Nazis.

Also, I am Fox Mulder. I am the head of the Kreich army, and I have been for a couple months. Now, the joke about the jews was a joke. I wasn't around to see it but I know the Kaiser, he's never seemed like an anti semite. Was in poor taste? Yea, and? Lots of jokes are in poor taste. That doesn't mean it reflects the values of an entire region. I think Triemann's point about anti semitism being not being inherent tofascism was about this situation, but I'll agree it's a little weak.

I think that, joke or not, it reflected poorly on the region. And having your Kaiser perhaps explain the situation might help with things.

[Rrborn]

Its...a post about KR nationalism with a god of war 3 song...what am I supposed to be reacting to?

Who r these heathens, barbarians and heretics he's referring to?

Idk. It was almost 2 years ago. If I had to guess, communists maybe? Femdom or an equivelent?

[Rrborn]

Ok, my flag is the easiest point to explain so I'll address it first. Its actually not a German soldier, its a "Rrborn" soldier. Its from one of the very first RP's I was ever in, drawn for me based off the description of my soldiers. I'll admit, the styles of uniform are similiar but it's not the same. It's only on there for sentimental value because that RP is where I met most of my friends and started really becoming active in Kreich.

Eh, it still reminds me of the soldiers who sent my family to concentration camps *shrug*
I don’t think you’re a Nazi or fascist but that’s the honest-to-G-d reaction I get from it. I’m not asking you go change it, but yeah. It may help you understand why some jump to the conclusion that you’re Nazis.

Also, I am Fox Mulder. I am the head of the Kreich army, and I have been for a couple months. Now, the joke about the jews was a joke. I wasn't around to see it but I know the Kaiser, he's never seemed like an anti semite. Was in poor taste? Yea, and? Lots of jokes are in poor taste. That doesn't mean it reflects the values of an entire region. I think Triemann's point about anti semitism being not being inherent tofascism was about this situation, but I'll agree it's a little weak.

I think that, joke or not, it reflected poorly on the region. And having your Kaiser perhaps explain the situation might help with things.

Well I'm sorry it reminds you have that. I understand it looks bad, but I've kept it up.

I agree, it does reflect poorly. However, I think it would be terribly regressive to label an entire group of independent, free thinking individuals based on one man's bad joke

[Apostate]

The fact remains KAISERREICH is NOT TAGGED FACSIST. Also, undisputed is the FACT that The Native Delegate Locked the region.

Thus, this is a crap proposal, because:

Distraught at the current occupation by the fascist KAISERREICH, who has locked down the region;

Since this is a fundamentally flawed, factually incorrect, and pejorative, judgmental opinion not based in reality, this thing should be voted down.

The reality is people are reading the word fascist and just supporting it. Fairness and Justice will not occur here. The big regions will just vote for their friends
proposals, which is what this entire body is all about.

La Navasse Himself was embroiled with Nazi Europeia, as well as flaming in The Rejected Realms and Elsewhere. But now since he lives in a Pacific, all Pacifics vote yea for his flawed, incorrect and ignorant Liberation Proposal.

[Prydania]

Well I'm sorry it reminds you have that. I understand it looks bad, but I've kept it up.

I’ve never asked you to change it I appreciate the explanation as well.

I agree, it does reflect poorly. However, I think it would be terribly regressive to label an entire group of independent, free thinking individuals based on one man's bad joke

Well I’m not labeling an entire group as Nazis based on one bad joke. It’s why I’ve TG’d someone from KReich to ask them some more detailed questions I have. I’m not convinced that you guys are a Nazi region based on what’s been presented here, and I’m merely seeking out my own information to inform my own opinion.

[Lenlyvit]

The fact remains KAISERREICH is NOT TAGGED FACSIST. Also, undisputed is the FACT that The Native Delegate Locked the region.

Thus, this is a crap proposal, because:

Distraught at the current occupation by the fascist KAISERREICH, who has locked down the region;

Since this is a fundamentally flawed, factually incorrect, and pejorative, judgmental opinion not based in reality, this thing should be voted down.

The reality is people are reading the word fascist and just supporting it. Fairness and Justice will not occur here. The big regions will just vote for their friends
proposals, which is what this entire body is all about.

La Navasse Himself was embroiled with Nazi Europeia, as well as flaming in The Rejected Realms and Elsewhere. But now since he lives in a Pacific, all Pacifics vote yea for his flawed, incorrect and ignorant Liberation Proposal.

Hate to throw a wrench in your parade, but the forces of KREICH changed the password after invading it. Its called tricking natives to give up a password, take the region with your forces, then change the password to one only your troops know. KREICH tricked the native WAD to let them in, took the delegacy, and changed the password to one of your own making. That's in all sense of the words "occupation" and "raid" buddy.

Edit: KREICH is considered Fascist by most of NS, me included. Not everyone that has a fascist region will put up the tag.

[Rrborn]

Well I'm sorry it reminds you have that. I understand it looks bad, but I've kept it up.

I’ve never asked you to change it I appreciate the explanation as well.

I agree, it does reflect poorly. However, I think it would be terribly regressive to label an entire group of independent, free thinking individuals based on one man's bad joke

Well I’m not labeling an entire group as Nazis based on one bad joke. It’s why I’ve TG’d someone from KReich to ask them some more detailed questions I have. I’m not convinced that you guys are a Nazi region based on what’s been presented here, and I’m merely seeking out my own information to inform my own opinion.

I know, You've been quite reasonable and polite, that was aimed at everyone who hasn't been as polite or reasonable

[Rrborn]

The fact remains KAISERREICH is NOT TAGGED FACSIST. Also, undisputed is the FACT that The Native Delegate Locked the region.

Thus, this is a crap proposal, because:

Since this is a fundamentally flawed, factually incorrect, and pejorative, judgmental opinion not based in reality, this thing should be voted down.

The reality is people are reading the word fascist and just supporting it. Fairness and Justice will not occur here. The big regions will just vote for their friends
proposals, which is what this entire body is all about.

La Navasse Himself was embroiled with Nazi Europeia, as well as flaming in The Rejected Realms and Elsewhere. But now since he lives in a Pacific, all Pacifics vote yea for his flawed, incorrect and ignorant Liberation Proposal.

Hate to throw a wrench in your parade, but the forces of KREICH changed the password after invading it. Its called tricking natives to give up a password, take the region with your forces, then change the password to one only your troops know. KREICH tricked the native WAD to let them in, took the delegacy, and changed the password to one of your own making. That's in all sense of the words "occupation" and "raid" buddy.

Edit: KREICH is considered Fascist by most of NS, me included. Not everyone that has a fascist region will put up the tag.

Um...we didn't change the password. I know we didn't because I'm the occupational officer and I know for a fact that we've never had enough influence ro change it...sorry to throw a wrench in your plans.

[Lenlyvit]

Hate to throw a wrench in your parade, but the forces of KREICH changed the password after invading it. Its called tricking natives to give up a password, take the region with your forces, then change the password to one only your troops know. KREICH tricked the native WAD to let them in, took the delegacy, and changed the password to one of your own making. That's in all sense of the words "occupation" and "raid" buddy.

Edit: KREICH is considered Fascist by most of NS, me included. Not everyone that has a fascist region will put up the tag.

Um...we didn't change the password. I know we didn't because I'm the occupational officer and I know for a fact that we've never had enough influence ro change it...sorry to throw a wrench in your plans.

You can't fool me. I saw it in the regional happenings when it happened. You can try to hide it but you're definitely lying on this count.

[Triemann]

Um...we didn't change the password. I know we didn't because I'm the occupational officer and I know for a fact that we've never had enough influence ro change it...sorry to throw a wrench in your plans.

You can't fool me. I saw it in the regional happenings when it happened. You can try to hide it but you're definitely lying on this count.

Please provide evidence to this claim.

[Rrborn]

Um...we didn't change the password. I know we didn't because I'm the occupational officer and I know for a fact that we've never had enough influence ro change it...sorry to throw a wrench in your plans.

You can't fool me. I saw it in the regional happenings when it happened. You can try to hide it but you're definitely lying on this count.

That's impossible...you couldn't have seen it happen because it didn't happen...screenshots maybe?