[PASSED] Liberate The Communal Confederacy

[Gagala]

Apologies if I’m missing something, but in what way is Kaiserreich fascist?

[Fauxia]

Apologies if I’m missing something, but in what way is Kaiserreich fascist?

Their allies consist almost solely of fascist regions. They also used to cooperate in military action with Nazi Europa, which is, as the name suggests, a nazi region. You can see them for yourself, they are certainly fascists

[Apostate]

Manipulation of security council by inflammatory terms
Postby Wanton Disregard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:09 pm

Hello,

The region of the communal confederacy, currently in relation with kaiserreich, an imperialist region, is currently the target of the following security council resolution:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1519876553

The resolution purposefully and with malice aforethouht uses inflammatory political language “fascist” to mislabel and miscatergorize the respective regions to create and maintain an alarmist response amongst delegates unfamiliar with out pre war Imperial German Monarchist region.

Since the term fascist is widely viewed as perjorative, and is underlined, to emphasize the assertion, absent evidence I ask that it be removed as neither the communal confederacy nor KAISERREICH is tagged a fascist region.

Thank you.

[Fox Mulderss]

We. Aren't. Fascists.

And we didn't even password the region. The natives added the password before we arrived. We initially took the region in a tag raid but held on to it because...well...we can. For a long time we didn't have any WA nations in the region at all, and the natives did not try and kick us out. As you noted, they even retook the delegacy and made no effort to stop us. I cannot understand the point in slandering us as fascists and Nazi collaborators over a region that accepted our "occupation" without a word of protest. Heck, we've been here for 89 days, so don't tell me they don't know we're here. Thet must be logging in sometimes in order to keep their nation alive.

Also, as a rule, I generally try and avoid refoundings. Especially in cases like these. It's a pain in the ass to pull off and onlyredults in unnecessary bitterness. The uncalled for captureand refounding of our court region is a perfect example of why I despise refoundings.

It's also completely dead. It has 2 rmb pages, only 1 and a half are filled with posts from "it's promising youth". The rest of the posts are from us. It may have had promise once, but that has long, long since passed. Unfortunately the tcc has faded into irrelevance and inactivity. It has no value as a strategic region, its not an active hub of leftism being suppressed by us evil center rights, it isn't even in threat of being destroyed. It's """liberation""" has no value since it is without a founder or active native WA and will likely fall to raiders again within a month. Raiders who will treat them with much less respect then we have.

[Fox Mulderss]

Also, we "used" to cooperate with Nazi Europa. Used to. As in, not anymore. Neither me nor my predecessor, Feldmarschell Copernika, has taken the Reichswehr anywhere near them. Nor would I want to. They're jerks. We closed out embassy with them a long time ago...but I guess we're still somehow responsible for the sins of a past administration.

[Novskya]

Apologies if I’m missing something, but in what way is Kaiserreich fascist?

Their allies consist almost solely of fascist regions. They also used to cooperate in military action with Nazi Europa, which is, as the name suggests, a nazi region. You can see them for yourself, they are certainly fascists

Would you care to name the allies of Kaissereich?

[Triemann]

Apologies if I’m missing something, but in what way is Kaiserreich fascist?

Their allies consist almost solely of fascist regions. They also used to cooperate in military action with Nazi Europa, which is, as the name suggests, a nazi region. You can see them for yourself, they are certainly fascists

I would like a solid explanation as to how a region headed by a Monarch and a council of un-elected elites remotely resembles National Socialism. Even beyond government style, how is a region "Nazi" when I have denounced the disgusting ideology more than once in my career as Reich Chancellor on behalf of Kaiserreich, and we have no official discrimination of Jews and other minorities. Heck, I'll denounce it again: Kaiserreich neither practices nor endorses a detestable ideology that tried to destroy the German history we wish to emulate--i.e. Nazism.

I am frankly tired of this by-product of a poor education over 20th Century history that causes large groups of nations who conveniently ignore the destructive and discriminatory power of Communism to embark on this witch hunt for Germanic regions, despite their political/social structure. I can't even go online and ensure that my region seeks German monarchist tradition (which the Nazi party condemned itself) without being labelled a "Nazi" by those who wish to curse the region, despite their claims either having no substance or occurring well over three years ago, before the vast majority of our current residents even held power. Many of our leaders are being judged for the questionable decisions made in the past with which we strongly disagree.

Nations, such as yours, are so quick to blindly judge those they do not bother to speak with to find their ideas. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi... which is why modern Germany is the largest danger to civil rights and international peace it seems. All this despite radical shifts in leaders and government styles who oppose Nazism. Weird, isn't it?

[La Navasse]

We. Aren't. Fascists.

Though CAIN is essentially defunct, I still consider it an authoritative guide to the fascist, if not Nazi, regions in NationStates. CAIN explicitly labels KAISERREICH as a Nazi Region, with evidence, here. Only labeling KAISERREICH as fascist is too generous on my part.

And we didn't even password the region. The natives added the password before we arrived. We initially took the region in a tag raid but held on to it because...well...we can. For a long time we didn't have any WA nations in the region at all, and the natives did not try and kick us out. As you noted, they even retook the delegacy and made no effort to stop us. I cannot understand the point in slandering us as fascists and Nazi collaborators over a region that accepted our "occupation" without a word of protest. Heck, we've been here for 89 days, so don't tell me they don't know we're here. Thet must be logging in sometimes in order to keep their nation alive.

Though the nations in the region may be unresponsive, that does not mean that they approve of your occupation; they may simply not communicate with other nations commonly if at all, or be inexperienced with the mechanisms of the game. Occupying for a long period does not legitimize your occupation. Additionally, you imply that you invaded a passworded region, which I find impossible if the natives aren't responsive to telegrams in the first place. It is most definitely a false statement to claim that you didn't password the region.

Also, as a rule, I generally try and avoid refoundings. Especially in cases like these. It's a pain in the ass to pull off and onlyredults in unnecessary bitterness. The uncalled for captureand refounding of our court region is a perfect example of why I despise refoundings.

We can't trust your claimed "rule" here, as you are the untrustworthy invading party. Furthermore, KAISERREICH has too many Colonies aka trophy regions to count. Next.

It's also completely dead. It has 2 rmb pages, only 1 and a half are filled with posts from "it's promising youth". The rest of the posts are from us. It may have had promise once, but that has long, long since passed. Unfortunately the tcc has faded into irrelevance and inactivity. It has no value as a strategic region, its not an active hub of leftism being suppressed by us evil center rights, it isn't even in threat of being destroyed. It's """liberation""" has no value since it is without a founder or active native WA and will likely fall to raiders again within a month. Raiders who will treat them with much less respect then we have.

The region has become stagnant mainly due to your occupation. Though it may have been dying down when you invading the region, you completely ended any chance of a revitalization by the remaining natives.

[Wrapper]

You folks can argue about whether or not a region or group is fascist, but let's keep stuff like "Fascist Attack" out of the title of the thread. Got it?

[Triemann]

CAIN explicitly labels KAISERREICH as a Nazi Region, with evidence, here. Only labeling KAISERREICH as fascist is too generous on my part.

Let's review that evidence, shall we?

1. Anti-Semitic jokes/statements do not directly connotate Nazism or fascism. If you look at the history of Europe, even in the 20th Century, you'll see major powers take discriminatory views on the Jews. Communism, for example, did so quite horribly. Nazism and anti-Semitism are closely linked due to the Holocaust. Nowhere in Kaiserreich will you see any official statements by any legitimate citizen that believe Jews should be murdered for being such. Anyone who would violates Article II, Section I, S.Section C, S.S.Section 4 of the constitution of Kaiserreich (https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=445062)

2. "Current Reich Chancellor" links a nation called Eskvor. Eskvor is a convicted traitor to the region for encouraging and executing dissent and separatism. His actions should be indicative of Kaiserreich no more than any other of our enemies. Also, since he was replaced as Chancellor, there have been two until now. I served for over a year while Copernika, my successor, served until the office was made irrelevant.

3. "Pro-Nazi leaders in the past" shows a nation with a questionable name and flag with which I strongly disagree. To the extent that relays personal beliefs or is a joke in poor taste, I cannot say. But what I can say is that this "leader in the past" has had absolutely no influence in the politics and behaviors of Kaiserreich in over three years.

I understand that groups like CAIN wish to root out Nazism, and that my defense looks like a poor attempt to ignore the damning parts of the history of my region and that of Germany. However, as Germany has moved on from such poor ideas, Kaiserreich has removed those poor elements of our region to meet a similar end.

What I do hold is that, despite a handful of non executive leaders seeming to hold horrible sympathies, it does not reflect the region at large. If a region promoted a communist individual to a position of non-executive power, how does that make the entire region and its history communist? I just feel there is a poor double standard going on, and it is only exacerbated by the liberal use of "fascist" as an insult that is inaccurate and archaic for Kaiserreich.

To be entirely sincere, as a Germanic region wishing to emulate the German Empire (aka Kaiserreich, irl), joining groups that wish to destroy actual Nazis and collaborators is in our interest, because they bring the rest of us down. CAIN sounded like a viable group to join, until it became clear that it was a group of anywhere from moderate liberal to Communist regions wishing to unify against the right at large, rather than solely the Nazism it claims to destroy.

Nazism "emphasize[s] the inequality of men and races and the right of the strong to rule the weak; sought to purge or suppress competing political, religious, and social institutions; advanced an ethic of hardness and ferocity; and partly destroyed class distinctions by drawing into the movement misfits and failures from all social classes" (https://www.britannica.com/event/National-Socialism).

Kaiserreich has no racially discriminatory policies in place whatsoever; we actually protect individuals from such harassment should they choose to prosecute for a violation of our constitution. Through our (albeit defunct) academy, we encourage differing social institutions. The existence of political parties in Kaiserreich also goes against the fact Nazism suppresses such things. Strong ethic is not inherently a bad thing, but we do not force ethic to work towards bad ends. Social distinctions are not even remotely destroyed; in fact we have a rigid class system akin to the Roman Republic. We do not take in social rejects if we cannot help it, because unsavory characters bring disorder to a region and could erode control and governance. I can say with resounding clarity that Kaiserreich is not a Nazi region.

Edit: I use Communism as a basis of comparison for Nazism, because, like Nazism, Communism is an extremist ideology that also believes in the surrendering of the individual the the authority of the state, removal of class distinctions between the wealthy and the worker, and a society of weak councils governing a strongly centralized nation.

[Fox Mulderss]

We. Aren't. Fascists.

Though CAIN is essentially defunct, I still consider it an authoritative guide to the fascist, if not Nazi, regions in NationStates. CAIN explicitly labels KAISERREICH as a Nazi Region, with evidence, here. Only labeling KAISERREICH as fascist is too generous on my part.

And we didn't even password the region. The natives added the password before we arrived. We initially took the region in a tag raid but held on to it because...well...we can. For a long time we didn't have any WA nations in the region at all, and the natives did not try and kick us out. As you noted, they even retook the delegacy and made no effort to stop us. I cannot understand the point in slandering us as fascists and Nazi collaborators over a region that accepted our "occupation" without a word of protest. Heck, we've been here for 89 days, so don't tell me they don't know we're here. Thet must be logging in sometimes in order to keep their nation alive.

Though the nations in the region may be unresponsive, that does not mean that they approve of your occupation; they may simply not communicate with other nations commonly if at all, or be inexperienced with the mechanisms of the game. Occupying for a long period does not legitimize your occupation. Additionally, you imply that you invaded a passworded region, which I find impossible if the natives aren't responsive to telegrams in the first place. It is most definitely a false statement to claim that you didn't password the region.

Also, as a rule, I generally try and avoid refoundings. Especially in cases like these. It's a pain in the ass to pull off and onlyredults in unnecessary bitterness. The uncalled for captureand refounding of our court region is a perfect example of why I despise refoundings.

We can't trust your claimed "rule" here, as you are the untrustworthy invading party. Furthermore, KAISERREICH has too many Colonies aka trophy regions to count. Next.

It's also completely dead. It has 2 rmb pages, only 1 and a half are filled with posts from "it's promising youth". The rest of the posts are from us. It may have had promise once, but that has long, long since passed. Unfortunately the tcc has faded into irrelevance and inactivity. It has no value as a strategic region, its not an active hub of leftism being suppressed by us evil center rights, it isn't even in threat of being destroyed. It's """liberation""" has no value since it is without a founder or active native WA and will likely fall to raiders again within a month. Raiders who will treat them with much less respect then we have.

The region has become stagnant mainly due to your occupation. Though it may have been dying down when you invading the region, you completely ended any chance of a revitalization by the remaining natives.

Pls, CAIN's evidence is many years old now and uses people who either long since left us or have CTED. The comment from our Kaiser was a joke about a game, Victoria 2 I believe. And as I already pointed out, we've closed our embassy with nazi Europa and others because their values no longer align with ours.

Kaiserreich has many colonies, many of which weren't taken in raids. The ones that have are from long time ago. As leader of the army I haven't attempted a refounding once in my many months of service. Next.

Actually, Wanton Disregard was a sleeper agent and in the region long before his main region even came to Kaiserreich. I know it sounds impossible to someone looking to ignore evidence, but we did successfully invade a passworded region.

My second point about slandering us over a region that's potentional is long dead still stands. The last native post on their rmb was from a year ago. Most were over a year ago. They were dead. Why can't you accept that? What connection dp you feel to this abandoned region? Us raiders are the only new residents it had in months. Ironically that's probably because of their password. We're the only ones who care about keeping the TCC up and running.

I really don't understand where you get your ideas from. An inactive founder, a password to enter, no rmb activity, not even reaching out for defender help after a raid. How does this speak to a region that was only dying? Why accuse us of a vile ideology we aren't, stir up another batch of vile and hate over a region that will likely CTE before the spring.

[Fauxia]

We don’t want any more regions becomeing KAISERREICH’s protektorates.

See, I remember when y’all axed your embassy with Nazi Europa, but it’s not like Nazi Termany, where none of the leaders are the same. They’re still there.

Your region is ripe with antisemitism and racism. Its nazi and neo-nazi influences cannot be denied.

Their allies consist almost solely of fascist regions. They also used to cooperate in military action with Nazi Europa, which is, as the name suggests, a nazi region. You can see them for yourself, they are certainly fascists

Would you care to name the allies of Kaissereich?

Sure.

They may claim not to be fascist, but they have embassies with Bunicken, which, while not expressly fascist, has many that self-identify as such.

One of their protektorates is “Iron Guard Coalition” which glorifies a fascist, anti-semitic organization

They’ve had very close relations with The Iron Order in the past, an infamous fascist region. And many of the people who were involved in that are still around.

And their rhetoric of calling their enemies “degenerates” is a tactic used almost exclusively by fascists

[Fox Mulderss]

We don’t want any more regions becomeing KAISERREICH’s protekkktorates.

See, I remember when y’all axed your embassy with Nazi Europa, but it’s not like Nazi Termany, where none of the leaders are the same. They’re still there.

Your region is ripe with antisemitism and racism. Its nazi and neo-nazi influences cannot be denied.

Would you care to name the allies of Kaissereich?

Sure.

They may claim not to be fascist, but they have embassies with Bunicken, which, while not expressly fascist, has many that self-identify as such.

One of their protekkktorates is “Iron Guard Coalition” which glorifies a fascist, anti-semitic organization

They’ve had very close relations with The Iron Order in the past, an infamous fascist region. And many of the people who were involved in that are still around.

And their rhetoric of calling their enemies “degenerates” is a tactic used almost exclusively by fascists

Why are you spelling protektorates wrong? Is that supposed to be some allusion to us being the kkk? Please tell me about anytime Kaiserreich has discriminated based on race. I bet you can't because the only argument you can use against us is hyperbole and misinformation.

Ah, and now I see we've moved on to labeling entire regions on the actions of a few fringe members. That's just great. I guess every region with a few radical members might as well be goosestepping, jew hating, poland invading nazis. Guilt by association amirite?

Also, please name any of our ""nazi"" leaders that are still in power? We've had several government restructures and reforms since our supposed Nazi days and most of our Reichstag has only been here for a year or less.

I have not heard of the Iron Guard Coalition. It's certainly not anything I've ever asscoiated myself with. While your flippant tossing of accusations of nazism or fascism makes me question the legitimacy of your claim, I will look into it.
Honestly, that's the consequences of actions like these. Kaiserreich is not a fascist or nazi region, and your repeated unwillingness to compromise in the face of strong evidence to the contrary erodes your credibility and makes it harder for people to believe the ones you make that are legitmate. Labeling everyone you don't like a nazi and wasting resources on moderates like us makes it harder to pursue the actual Nazis. When this happens nobody wins. Not you, not me, just the nazis.

As for the Iron Order, you may be right on that one. I am unsure. Which means we old embassies with 1, maybe 2, regions that are fascist in some way. 2 out of over 305 total embassies. That is hardly representative of our vast majority of allies.

[Fox Mulderss]

Also, I'd like to see an example of us calling someone a degenerate unironically. While you're at it can you explain how that's different from you labeling every region you find personally distasteful "fascist"? A tactic used almost exclusively by the intellectually bankrupt.

[La Navasse]

Also, I'd like to see an example of us calling someone a degenerate unironically. While you're at it can you explain how that's different from you labeling every region you find personally distasteful "fascist"? A tactic used almost exclusively by the intellectually bankrupt.

I didn't find your region personally distasteful to label it fascist - your region is, without a doubt, politically fascist in its governance and culture.

[Rrborn]

Also, I'd like to see an example of us calling someone a degenerate unironically. While you're at it can you explain how that's different from you labeling every region you find personally distasteful "fascist"? A tactic used almost exclusively by the intellectually bankrupt.

I didn't find your region personally distasteful to label it fascist - your region is, without a doubt, politically fascist in its governance and culture.

So you're response to the past two days of evidence to the contrary is "ur a fascist because I say so"? Cool. Cool.

[Vojvodina-Hohenberg]

hail kaiser hail reich i guess

[Scansinia]

Also, I'd like to see an example of us calling someone a degenerate unironically. While you're at it can you explain how that's different from you labeling every region you find personally distasteful "fascist"? A tactic used almost exclusively by the intellectually bankrupt.

I didn't find your region personally distasteful to label it fascist - your region is, without a doubt, politically fascist in its governance and culture.

*Monarchist and we are a Meritocracy, with elements of democracy in our Parliament.

We also have a diverse group of people, and have many cultures within the Empire.

Besides, the Communal Confederacy is in a truly safe environment.

[La Navasse]

I didn't find your region personally distasteful to label it fascist - your region is, without a doubt, politically fascist in its governance and culture.

So you're response to the past two days of evidence to the contrary is "ur a fascist because I say so"? Cool. Cool.

Please refer to the already cited and widely accepted evidence from CAIN regarding KAISERREICH posted in this thread.

I didn't find your region personally distasteful to label it fascist - your region is, without a doubt, politically fascist in its governance and culture.

*Monarchist and we are a Meritocracy, with elements of democracy in our Parliament.

We also have a diverse group of people, and have many cultures within the Empire.

Besides, the Communal Confederacy is in a truly safe environment.

You may claim such, but what truly happens in practice contradicts what you are claiming.

[Rrborn]

So you're response to the past two days of evidence to the contrary is "ur a fascist because I say so"? Cool. Cool.

Please refer to the already cited and widely accepted evidence from CAIN regarding KAISERREICH posted in this thread.

*Monarchist and we are a Meritocracy, with elements of democracy in our Parliament.

We also have a diverse group of people, and have many cultures within the Empire.

Besides, the Communal Confederacy is in a truly safe environment.

You may claim such, but what truly happens in practice contradicts what you are claiming.

Please refer to the widely cited and confirmed rebuttal to the CAIN nonsense. It's been disproven more then enough times. But real quick;
The kaiser was making a joke
Eskovr is a widely hated traitor who hasn't been in a position of power for over a year.
Neo Prussia hasn't been relevant to us in years.
We closed our embassy with nazi Europa a long time ago and we do not support their ideaology or region.

What more could you want? What more could you possibly need to see for us to prove our innocence? Everytime you drag up the same damn CAIN article and everytime we have to disapprove it. Do you even read? Do you even care that the evidence doesn't add up? Do you care about anything other then gaining brownie points with your other lefty regions by "bashing the fash"?

Also please cite an example of us discrimanting based on race or gender or religion. Please cite an example of the practices you claim contradict us. Please. I'd love to see it.

[Triemann]

You may claim such, but what truly happens in practice contradicts what you are claiming.

Please enlighten on how my government works, because the combined 10 years of experience of KR officials with whom you spoke apparently isn’t indicative of how we run...

[Triemann]

And their rhetoric of calling their enemies “degenerates” is a tactic used almost exclusively by fascists

I’m sorry that a word existing for over 500 years only in the last 2 years was officially redefined to mean “fascist”. I am glad to be speaking with authorities in the English language.

All kidding aside, I feel my clear denunciations of Nazism and sharing an insight on the governance of Kaiserreich has gone largely ignored by you all. I’m sorry to give you factual evidence that contrasts your dogmatic and closed view of a diverse community.

I am giving you all reasons CAIN’s claims are wrong, using evidence and experience. But when you’re pressed, you’re “evidence” is CAIN’s word rather than facts and actions contrary.

[Gagala]

We don’t want any more regions becomeing KAISERREICH’s protekkktorates.

See, I remember when y’all axed your embassy with Nazi Europa, but it’s not like Nazi Termany, where none of the leaders are the same. They’re still there.

Your region is ripe with antisemitism and racism. Its nazi and neo-nazi influences cannot be denied.

Would you care to name the allies of Kaissereich?

Sure.

They may claim not to be fascist, but they have embassies with Bunicken, which, while not expressly fascist, has many that self-identify as such.

One of their protektorates is “Iron Guard Coalition” which glorifies a fascist, anti-semitic organization

They’ve had very close relations with The Iron Order in the past, an infamous fascist region. And many of the people who were involved in that are still around.

And their rhetoric of calling their enemies “degenerates” is a tactic used almost exclusively by fascists

Which exact nations are you talking about here? Or is this just another uneducated tarring with a wide brush by the left to tar us as fascist Nazis

[Captain Woodhouse]

The kaiser was making a joke

Can you post a screenshot or quote of the supposed Jewish Bolshevik joke origins in Victoria II? I'm not a big video gamer and am curious.

What more could you want?

For starters, insist that your founder refrain from making embassies with fascist and Nazi regions. Scansinia made an embassy with Royal Order less than two months ago. You can't expect anyone to believe K-REICH isn't still in bed with Nazis and fascists when your founder continues messing around with them.

I've had a lot of contact with Scan. I'm the guy he approached about a forum for K-REICH. Me, the Nazi-fascist gameplay mouthpiece at the time. I referred him to NE's forum creator. Scan got himself a forum with a swastika skin and couldn't care less how it looked to his people or outsiders.

A point against K-Reich that's rarely, if ever, mentioned is Scansinia giving well-known Nazi player, Verborgenen Herrn, control of his military for several months in 2016.

If you want the Nazi taint off of K-REICH, convince Scansinia to step down from all decision making.

[Conservative Values]

It looks like there's still quite a lot of influence between the lead and the highest influence native, and the endorsement counts here are low. So normally I would doubt it was time for this yet - but it looks like this has been going on for a long time now. So I guess fair enough.

We. Aren't. Fascists.

Let's review that evidence, shall we?<snip>

I wanted to address this because I feel like you lot like to hide behind the fact the people who criticize your region as fascist are from the left / far left. If either of you are too young to remember: My region voted to join an alliance (ANTICOM) with your region several years ago. And I left the region I founded in protest that it would align with a fascist region (your region). At the time I based that upon the fact your forum had a massive swastika flag as a background. I would be horrified to sit with that image displaying on my computer for long periods of time. It's just totally unthinkable to me that a bunch of you all didn't see a huge problem with that. Also, at the time, you had an embassy with Nazi Europa which I understand you now closed.. But why did you have one?

I for one am open after all this time to looking into whether or not there has been some changing of hearts. Not everyone will be, and that's just how that is. But I'm only open to that after there's an admission that KR was a fascist region two years ago. Because it was. And its hard to believe it isn't now if you don't own up to the fact it was then.