[PASSED] Ban on Ritual Sacrifice

[United Nations Under One Flag]

"We do not see the solution that this proposal is attempting to provide as a 'practical purpose', we, in fact, find it quite frightening that the member-state of the GA can impose these regulations on us, effectively superseding our peoples' judgement of what a 'practical purpose' is. The proposer of this proposal notes that his/her nation has considered this solution a 'practical purpose' and that all other member-nations should conform to this view, though I understand where they are coming from, I do not see why each member-state cannot make their own decision on this topic as they see fit."

"There is a very, very compelling and practical purpose in protecting the lives of sapient beings."

The Minister agrees and adds,
"Indeed, there is compelling and practical purpose to protecting the lives of sapient beings, or so we believe. Is it within the right of the WA or the GA to force upon others this view? Is it within the right of the WA or the GA to force those who do not conform to that view to violate their interpretation of Article 1 Clause C of GAR#35?"

He looks up from the paper to speak in a more formal manner.
"Is it not true that the intentional killing of humans, and there for sapient beings not already illegal? Is it not true that this proposal will unfairly discriminate based on religion as, again, in violation of Article 1 Clause C of #35?"

"There is no such resolution, ambassador. If there were such a prohibition, then war and killing in self defense would be illegal. They are not."

The Minister raises a contradiction,
"I believe I may quote you in saying 'Murder is already illegal.' Is murder not a form of killing humans intentionally with the added connotation of malice? In many cultures war is government sponsored murder, to those who follow it war, for all intents and purposes, is murder; the same can be said of self deference."

OOC:
Can I use 'Murder is already illegal.' as a IC quote or is it considered OOC?

[Excidium Planetis]

The, this man needs a name, Minister reads through the cited Resolution casually remarking,
"Then this proposal is redundant."

He looks up from the paper to speak in a more formal manner.
"Is it not true that the intentional killing of humans, and there for sapient beings not already illegal? Is it not true that this proposal will unfairly discriminate based on religion as, again, in violation of Article 1 Clause C of #35?"

"It is the prevailing opinion of the General Assembly Secretariat," Ambassador Blackbourne begins, "that nations are left to interpret what 'compelling practical purposes' means. But that is of no concern to this proposal. GA#35 merely allows nations to discriminate if there is compelling practical purposes. Nothing in this resolution deals with discrimination."

"*cough* Cultural supression much? *cough*. And before you say backwards culture, we started the space race first and won, well, overkilled due to manned landings on Mars, so yeah. Also, beware of really pissed off Cthulhists which is 4th largest religion."

"A backwards civilization indeed," Ambassador Blackbourne remarks, "if you believe having reached a planet in the same star system is the hallmark of high culture. Excidian starliners can travel hundreds of light years on their voyages, our military has laid waste to dozens of populated worlds, and none of that is a demonstration of our cultural superiority, merely our technological superiority."

[Wallenburg]

"There is a very, very compelling and practical purpose in protecting the lives of sapient beings."

The Minister agrees and adds,
"Indeed, there is compelling and practical purpose to protecting the lives of sapient beings, or so we believe. Is it within the right of the WA or the GA to force upon others this view? Is it within the right of the WA or the GA to force those who do not conform to that view to violate their interpretation of Article 1 Clause C of GAR#35?"

"Yes, it is, nor is it a violation of GAR#35 to protect sapient life."

"There is no such resolution, ambassador. If there were such a prohibition, then war and killing in self defense would be illegal. They are not."

The Minister raises a contradiction,
"I believe I may quote you in saying 'Murder is already illegal.' Is murder not a form of killing humans intentionally with the added connotation of malice? In many cultures war is government sponsored murder, to those who follow it war, for all intents and purposes, is murder; the same can be said of self deference."

"You said nothing about murder. You were talking about the intentional killing of humans. Murder is homicide. Homicide is not, by definition, murder."

OOC:
Can I use 'Murder is already illegal.' as a IC quote or is it considered OOC?

OOC: Murder is illegal because murder is, by definition, illegal. There are no resolutions prohibiting murder. It is illegal because it is murder. What you consider to be murder is, however, entirely dependent on the laws of the WA and member states.

[Ruskland-Preuben]

"*cough* Cultural supression much? *cough*. And before you say backwards culture, we started the space race first and won, well, overkilled due to manned landings on Mars, so yeah. Also, beware of really pissed off Cthulhists which is 4th largest religion."

"A backwards civilization indeed," Ambassador Blackbourne remarks, "if you believe having reached a planet in the same star system is the hallmark of high culture. Excidian starliners can travel hundreds of light years on their voyages, our military has laid waste to dozens of populated worlds, and none of that is a demonstration of our cultural superiority, merely our technological superiority."

“Is that it? Cthulhu showed us that parallel universes exist, and quantum mechanics, let’s not forget about quantum mechanics. Besides, he showed as a FT version of ourselves, and let’s just say, you’re pathetic. And having a real god is a plus.”

[Gana Dadag Gub Kur]

“Is that it? Cthulhu showed us that parallel universes exist, and quantum mechanics, let’s not forget about quantum mechanics. Besides, he showed as a FT version of ourselves, and let’s just say, you’re pathetic. And having a real god is a plus.”

Hale Cthulhu! Hale Marduk! Hale our people's sacred blood offering rituals forever!

[Excidium Planetis]

“Is that it? Cthulhu showed us that parallel universes exist, and quantum mechanics, let’s not forget about quantum mechanics. Besides, he showed as a FT version of ourselves, and let’s just say, you’re pathetic. And having a real god is a plus.”

"Understanding parallel universes is a prerequisite for World Assembly involvement, as this Headquarters is at a multiversal nexus." Blackbourne says with little enthusiasm. "Not impressive. Quantum Mechanics are ancient and gods don't exist. I'm afraid if you are trying to demonstrate your cultural superiority with meaningless drivel, you are not succeeding."

[United Nations Under One Flag]

The Minister looks at his watch, packs up his papers, and walks to the door; about halfway to the door he stops and begins go make his final comments of the night,
"My time here today is almost up, state mandates and the such. I wish to make a conclusion and wrap up my arguments, take them as you will:

1. The United Nations Under One Flag rejects the proposal
2. Some interpretations of previous Resolutions my be violated by this proposal
3. The implied integration of Animals and Humans as equals in this proposal is a 'game breaker' for the UNUOF and may be for other member-states
4. I would like to see this proposal broken up into one for humans and one for animals, I am not at liberty to preemptively judge such a proposal"

Thank you all for you time, I hope to discuss this and other issues with you further in the future."

And with that final statement, the Minister of WA Relations leaves the hall.

[Wallenburg]

The Minister looks at his watch, packs up his papers, and walks to the door; about halfway to the door he stops and begins go make his final comments of the night,
"My time here today is almost up, state mandates and the such. I wish to make a conclusion and wrap up my arguments, take them as you will:

1. The United Nations Under One Flag rejects the proposal
2. Some interpretations of previous Resolutions my be violated by this proposal
3. The implied integration of Animals and Humans as equals in this proposal is a 'game breaker' for the UNUOF and may be for other member-states
4. I would like to see this proposal broken up into one for humans and one for animals, I am not at liberty to preemptively judge such a proposal"

Thank you all for you time, I hope to discuss this and other issues with you further in the future."

And with that final statement, the Minister of WA Relations leaves the hall.

"Good riddance. If he's going to be so racist as to reject my people's sapience and equal standing to humans, he has no place here."

“Is that it? Cthulhu showed us that parallel universes exist, and quantum mechanics, let’s not forget about quantum mechanics. Besides, he showed as a FT version of ourselves, and let’s just say, you’re pathetic. And having a real god is a plus.”

"Sure your god is real. It's not like every religion makes that claim. And even if it is, so what?" asks Ogenbond. "You are again associating technological gifts--in this case, ones your people were too dim to achieve themselves--with cultural superiority."

"I...don't see what technological capacity has to do with cultural modernity. Just because you have better vehicles or weapons does not make your culture superior."

Neither does your understanding of right and wrong or "good" and "bad". There is such a thing as volitional self-sacrifice, and in some nations all sacrifice is volitional. You're also completely ignoring the fact that the proposal in discussion urges members to also ban animal sacrifice. Yes, not requires, urges. This does not mean the people who take issue with that section didn't read the proposal, it simply means they read it and took issue with the inclusion of a strongly suggested ban on animal sacrifice, and the practice being cast in a negative light, tacked onto a resolution that is supposed to deal with human rights.

"And it is very well that animal sacrifice is cast in a poor light. It is a waste of a whole host of resources, ranging from food to fur to fuel. Often, this is coupled with gruesome, cruel deaths for the animals involved. And all in the name of gods that, chances are, don't exist. If you consider the waste of significant supplies of valuable resources 'good', I honestly don't know what you might think is bad."

[Gana Dadag Gub Kur]

"And it is very well that animal sacrifice is cast in a poor light. It is a waste of a whole host of resources, ranging from food to fur to fuel. Often, this is coupled with gruesome, cruel deaths for the animals involved. And all in the name of gods that, chances are, don't exist. If you consider the waste of significant supplies of valuable resources 'good', I honestly don't know what you might think is bad."

Consider that - as has always been common practice amongst the Hittites - the majority portion of offerings are eaten by the poor, similar to what the Arabs do on Eid al-Adha, and what Samaritans do on Pesach (as their Jewish cousins once did on the same day). Sharing most of the animal with those who need it the most, is part and parcel of ritual sacrifice for those of us who adhere to traditions which have their roots in the ancient Near East. The animals are also killed in the most humane way possible, for we have adopted many of the instructions on animal treatment from the great Zartosht (or as you know him, Zarathustra), who was very clear that animals being sacrificed must be treated with great care to avoid their needless suffering, before and throughout the ritual.

I will gladly take the words of Zartosht over yours in regard to the existence of Gods. There is no question they exist. If you were not so deeply enmeshed with your bigoted Western values, you might understand that reality. Until you do: May mist seize your windows, and smoke seize your house. May the logs in your hearth be stifled, and your god of materialism be subdued at the alter of your welfare state. May the sheep in your sheepfold be stifled, and the cows in your barn be stifled. May your ewes reject your lambs, and your cows reject their calves.

[Ruskland-Preuben]

“I really am tempted to do a summon, I haven’t done one in years but I ain’t rusty. Besides, to you FT peoples that seem to care about this planet for some reason, *cough* imperialism *cough*, why care about which theory is superior when we’ve got a god that gives the bird to every known laws of physics as well as those who also give the bird to physics.” He does a quick summon discretely, “Oh hey mini Cthulhu, how ya doing?”.

[Separatist Peoples]

"And it is very well that animal sacrifice is cast in a poor light. It is a waste of a whole host of resources, ranging from food to fur to fuel. Often, this is coupled with gruesome, cruel deaths for the animals involved. And all in the name of gods that, chances are, don't exist. If you consider the waste of significant supplies of valuable resources 'good', I honestly don't know what you might think is bad."

Consider that - as has always been common practice amongst the Hittites - the majority portion of offerings are eaten by the poor, similar to what the Arabs do on Eid al-Adha, and what Samaritans do on Pesach (as their Jewish cousins once did on the same day). Sharing most of the animal with those who need it the most, is part and parcel of ritual sacrifice for those of us who adhere to traditions which have their roots in the ancient Near East. The animals are also killed in the most humane way possible, for we have adopted many of the instructions on animal treatment from the great Zartosht (or as you know him, Zarathustra), who was very clear that animals being sacrificed must be treated with great care to avoid their needless suffering, before and throughout the ritual.

I will gladly take the words of Zartosht over yours in regard to the existence of Gods. There is no question they exist. If you were not so deeply enmeshed with your bigoted Western values, you might understand that reality. Until you do: May mist seize your windows, and smoke seize your house. May the logs in your hearth be stifled, and your god of materialism be subdued at the alter of your welfare state. May the sheep in your sheepfold be stifled, and the cows in your barn be stifled. May your ewes reject your lambs, and your cows reject their calves.

"Good thing we have an Anti-Divinity Ray. As far as we're concerned, the influence of your "god" stops at our borders.

"We support this. Religious expression should be stifled."

[Imperial Polk County]

"Good thing we have an Anti-Divinity Ray. As far as we're concerned, the influence of your "god" stops at our borders.

Drane whispers to Bell, "What is it, a flashlight that someone turns on and off?"

[Entronium]

Aren't we all the gods in this game?


Even though I hate sacrifices especaly when those sacrifices are intelligent beings that have done so much in their life, just to be killed and for that work to go to waste.....

[United Massachusetts]

I register my support for the resolution

[Blue Foot Tribe]

these rituals have been apart of are culture for many thousands of years I feel that is should be legal for the sacrifice of the ill or traitors to the countries

[Separatist Peoples]

"Good thing we have an Anti-Divinity Ray. As far as we're concerned, the influence of your "god" stops at our borders.

Drane whispers to Bell, "What is it, a flashlight that someone turns on and off?"

Bell leans in conspiratorialy, "It's a flashlight glued in the middle of an old satellite dish for T.V.. We spot-welded iron sights on it and got a PFC to flash it on and off while two others blow on kazoos. There was a smoke machine under it, but the brass decided that was too much pageantry."

[Imperial Polk County]

Drane whispers to Bell, "What is it, a flashlight that someone turns on and off?"

Bell leans in conspiratorialy, "It's a flashlight glued in the middle of an old satellite dish for T.V.. We spot-welded iron sights on it and got a PFC to flash it on and off while two others blow on kazoos. There was a smoke machine under it, but the brass decided that was too much pageantry."

As Drane listens, he slowly smiles. "Okay, now I know you're pulling my leg. Kazoos? Really?"

these rituals have been apart of are culture for many thousands of years I feel that is should be legal for the sacrifice of the ill or traitors to the countries

Drane nods thoughtfully. "I understand what you are saying, but hear me out. If you sentence traitors to death while following the conditions of GAR#375, Crime and Punishment, then the ceremonious execution of such criminals does not fit the definition of 'ritual sacrifice', and you may continue to do so. As for the terminally ill, if they consent, then that is considered euthanasia, and the ritualistic performance of euthanasia likewise does not fit the definition of 'ritual sacrifice'. As a matter of fact, one can argue that, without repeal, this proposal actually protects the right of your people to perform such rituals, as future legislation could contradict this proposal once it passes. Such contradiction would be against General Assembly rules. If you want to protect such rights, you should probably vote in favor of this proposal."

[Excidium Planetis]

“I really am tempted to do a summon, I haven’t done one in years but I ain’t rusty. Besides, to you FT peoples that seem to care about this planet for some reason, *cough* imperialism *cough*

Blackbourne raises an eyebrow. "If you meant that as an insult, I don't believe it is effective."

why care about which theory is superior when we’ve got a god that gives the bird to every known laws of physics as well as those who also give the bird to physics.” He does a quick summon discretely, “Oh hey mini Cthulhu, how ya doing?”.

"Ha," Blackbourne scoffs. "Empty words and parlor tricks. We've seen fiercer than that and lived."

Aren't we all the gods in this game?

Blackbourne ignores the Type 1 Reality Rift in the corner.

I will gladly take the words of Zartosht over yours in regard to the existence of Gods. There is no question they exist. If you were not so deeply enmeshed with your bigoted Western values, you might understand that reality. Until you do: May mist seize your windows, and smoke seize your house. May the logs in your hearth be stifled, and your god of materialism be subdued at the alter of your welfare state. May the sheep in your sheepfold be stifled, and the cows in your barn be stifled. May your ewes reject your lambs, and your cows reject their calves.

"Excidium Planetis has neither mist, nor logs in the hearth, and our sheep and cows are just fine. However, that's all irrelevant. Animal sacrifice is not banned in this resolution."

[Ruskland-Preuben]

The mini Cthulhu decides to claw your foot whilst slicing the air above him with a scissor.

[Excidium Planetis]

The mini Cthulhu decides to claw your foot whilst slicing the air above him with a scissor.

As "your" presumably refers to the player, and not Ambassador Evander Blackbourne of Excidium Planetis,
the player looks down at their shoe. There does not seem to be a miniature elder god clawing away at their feet, so the comment is shrugged off. The Player heads off to college to do more important things than play at an online political simulation game.

[United Nations Under One Flag]

"Good riddance. If he's going to be so racist as to reject my people's sapience and equal standing to humans, he has no place here."

A representative form the UNUOF Ministry of Foreign Affairs arrives with a letter, he reads it aloud:
"Dear follow representatives of the GA,
Excuse my leave, the Executive branch of my nation is reforming the cabinet to reduce redundancy; I can not leave as I must attend to this issue. However, I must note on a comment made by fellow representative of Wallenburg, we do not reject your sapience and sentience; we merely wish to point out the fact that this proposal leaves many conditions unconsidered and thus is too narrow to too many member-states to enforce and employ effectively and equally across the entirety of the WA.

Respectively,
David Mann
Minister of (now defunct) WA Relations
The United Nations Under One Flag"

The young representative sits and begins taking notes on responses to the letter.

[Scherzinger]

We will continue to engage in ritual sacrifice regardless of the outcome of this ban.

Against

[TURTLESHROOM II]

“‘Urges’ isn’t a requirement. This has been explained before,” says Ixhua. “Don’t you have ears?”

Obviously it is not a requirement. It is still a slap in the face to those communities. Are you dense? It is blatantly discriminatory and casts negative judgement on those communities, and many others. It also strongly implies that the practise of animal sacrifice might be next on the cultural imposition chopping block, for this apparently culturally illiterate World Assembly.

"Excidium Planetis has neither mist, nor logs in the hearth, and our sheep and cows are just fine. However, that's all irrelevant. Animal sacrifice is not banned in this resolution."

The turtle in the vents concurred.

"Sure, 'urges' ain't no requirement. YET. Ya'll say I didn't read this Resolution, but I did, and I see a slippery slope right there. I was saying that the line needs to be clear-uh, and by that, I mean we strahk any reference to non-sentient animal sacrifice from this Resolution."

Aren't we all the gods in this game?

Blackbourne ignores the Type 1 Reality Rift in the corner.

"Where ah come from, that sort of wallin' off will get ya beaten with sticks."

[Alinn]

Pres. LeBlanc lowers his head briefly and slightly shakes it in disapproval as he takes a breath in and stands, facing Ambassador Drane.

"Ambassador Drane, with all due respect and the utmost decorum, I must ask you one question. What are we as an assembly going to tell indigenous tribes and cultures who implement voluntary ritual sacrifices? You cannot simply rule out that there would be no one willing to sacrifice themselves to a god if they were to truly believe in it's power, especially if it is viewed upon as heroic or selfless.

Add the word "involuntary" before ritual sacrifices and you have a yes vote from the Alinnian government and its' people. However, we cannot stand idly by and watch the rights of indigenous people stripped away. Even though the aspect is inhumane and we see the light in that, we cannot become judgmental of a culture and force them to assimilate because we feel as if their ways and ideals or outdated, under par, or below our personal moral standards. We will not stand for that, Ambassador."

Pres. LeBlanc sits back down, scoots his chair toward his desk and begins writing notes down as well as speaking with some of his advisers.

[Imperial Polk County]

Pres. LeBlanc lowers his head briefly and slightly shakes it in disapproval as he takes a breath in and stands, facing Ambassador Drane.

"Ambassador Drane, with all due respect and the utmost decorum, I must ask you one question. What are we as an assembly going to tell indigenous tribes and cultures who implement voluntary ritual sacrifices? You cannot simply rule out that there would be no one willing to sacrifice themselves to a god if they were to truly believe in it's power, especially if it is viewed upon as heroic or selfless.

Add the word "involuntary" before ritual sacrifices and you have a yes vote from the Alinnian government and its' people. However, we cannot stand idly by and watch the rights of indigenous people stripped away. Even though the aspect is inhumane and we see the light in that, we cannot become judgmental of a culture and force them to assimilate because we feel as if their ways and ideals or outdated, under par, or below our personal moral standards. We will not stand for that, Ambassador."

Pres. LeBlanc sits back down, scoots his chair toward his desk and begins writing notes down as well as speaking with some of his advisers.

"As I've said a few times now, I've only been willing to go as far as to allow for voluntary suicidal self-sacrifice. I believe that's a fair compromise, and if you disagree, then I'm afraid we shall never see eye to eye on this matter. Your vote against is noted."