[PASSED] Marriage Equality (The Provisional State of Nevada)

[The Atlae Isles]

"I can't believe this is passing, by such a large bloody margin too...I hate lemmings....so fucking much..."

It's not the lemmings. It is the feeders. If the delegates to The Pacific,The West Pacific,The South Pacific and The East Pacific all changed their votes from AYE to NAY this resolution would be going down. When was the last time Aleisyr ever posted on the GA forums? How about Davelands? It's all fun and games on their own regional boards and private forums and everyone suffers as a result.

Let's at least blame the proper people here. For the most part, lemmings follow the feeders. Don't blame the lemmings; blame the feeders.

Interesting fact about TEP.

TEP initially voted Against, and stayed that way for a while, until enough people in TEP voted for that under the Concordat (Constitution) Yuno had to vote for it. I don't know about the other ones, but in the East Pacific, it was the fluffy language and title that won them over.

[Serrus]

It's not the lemmings. It is the feeders. If the delegates to The Pacific,The West Pacific,The South Pacific and The East Pacific all changed their votes from AYE to NAY this resolution would be going down. When was the last time Aleisyr ever posted on the GA forums? How about Davelands? It's all fun and games on their own regional boards and private forums and everyone suffers as a result.

Let's at least blame the proper people here. For the most part, lemmings follow the feeders. Don't blame the lemmings; blame the feeders.

Interesting fact about TEP.

TEP initially voted Against, and stayed that way for a while, until enough people in TEP voted for that under the Concordat (Constitution) Yuno had to vote for it. I don't know about the other ones, but in the East Pacific, it was the fluffy language and title that won them over.

Then here's hoping my Major-General song parody wins them over for the repeal...

[The United Provinces of Serbania]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

[Willania Imperium]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

Don't worry. Even if this wins, we have multiple repeals ready against it.

[Oakrugia]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

OOC: Do you have a specific reason why you're going to leave if this passes? Or are you just joking around?

[The Great Boom]

Leaders who are openly saying things like this are the reason why this flawed bill is going to pass overwhelmingly. In a NS world where so many nations feel the way this poster does, protecting human rights is more important than grammar. I am so, so glad that the people of your nation will be able to freely marry who they choose tomorrow.

"Except they won't be able to marry who they want, most likely." Blackbourne replies. "Such nations don't follow World Assembly resolutions anyways, since the WA has already prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."

Ah, this again. If we don't expect or enforce compliance, I guess we should repeal all resolutions and cease passing any new ones.

Prohibiting discrimination isn't the same thing as guaranteeing the right do to something that is blocked via discriminatory practices. By the logic that we can't pass resolutions just because the underlying rights is guaranteed would effectively undermine the passage of all new resolutions. This is why the General Assembly rules thread specifically clarified that resolutions can specify more nuanced goals that lie within broader legislation. That was done so that the CoCR and other broad resolutions didn't prevent future resolutions from strengthening international civil rights.

[The Great Boom]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

Bye.

Many nations in this thread have subtly made the same threat, and it's very likely to pass barring a massive swing tomorrow. It is your right to leave the WA if you don't want to be governed by it. But your gay citizens will be welcomed with open arms if they seek to immigrate to The Great Boom.

[Willania Imperium]

"Except they won't be able to marry who they want, most likely," Blackbourne replies. "Such nations don't follow World Assembly resolutions anyways since the WA has already prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."

Ah, this again. If we don't expect or enforce compliance, I guess we should repeal all resolutions and cease passing any new ones.

Prohibiting discrimination isn't the same thing as guaranteeing the right do to something that is blocked via discriminatory practices. By the logic that we can't pass resolutions just because the underlying rights are guaranteed would effectively undermine the passage of all new resolutions. This is why the General Assembly rules thread specifically clarified that resolutions can specify more nuanced goals that lie within the broader legislation. That was done so that the CoCR and other broad resolutions didn't prevent future resolutions from strengthening international civil rights.

Even if it "needed" clarification on it, it should not be on a proposal that is poorly-drafted and horribly written, as well as grammatically incorrect. It will be an embarrassment to see a low-value piece of legislation like this deemed legal. Plus, it can set a precedent that proposals are easy to pass, even if done privately and without the input of others. We can't allow something like this to become existant.

[The Great Boom]

Ah, this again. If we don't expect or enforce compliance, I guess we should repeal all resolutions and cease passing any new ones.

Prohibiting discrimination isn't the same thing as guaranteeing the right do to something that is blocked via discriminatory practices. By the logic that we can't pass resolutions just because the underlying rights are guaranteed would effectively undermine the passage of all new resolutions. This is why the General Assembly rules thread specifically clarified that resolutions can specify more nuanced goals that lie within the broader legislation. That was done so that the CoCR and other broad resolutions didn't prevent future resolutions from strengthening international civil rights.

Even if it "needed" clarification on it, it should not be on a proposal that is poorly-drafted and horribly written, as well as grammatically incorrect. It will be an embarrassment to see a low-value piece of legislation like this deemed legal. Plus, it can set a precedent that proposals are easy to pass, even if done privately and without the input of others. We can't allow something like this to become existant.

You and I have already discussed our objections to the wording of the bill and the process by which it was passed. We're in agreement there. If you hadn't noticed, I've begun preemptively drafting a new marriage equality bill in case Imperium Anglorum is successful in repealing the resolution at vote.

None of that has anything to do with the dubious arguments submitted by the ambassador I was responding to.

[Willania Imperium]

Even if it "needed" clarification on it, it should not be on a proposal that is poorly-drafted and horribly written, as well as grammatically incorrect. It will be an embarrassment to see a low-value piece of legislation like this deemed legal. Plus, it can set a precedent that proposals are easy to pass, even if done privately and without the input of others. We can't allow something like this to become existant.

You and I have already discussed our objections to the wording of the bill and the process by which it was passed. We're in agreement there. If you hadn't noticed, I've begun preemptively drafting a new marriage equality bill in case Imperium Anglorum is successful in repealing the resolution at vote.

None of that has anything to do with the dubious arguments submitted by the ambassador I was responding to.

Oh. Well, I'm glad to see we're both in agreement. I hope your new draft is well-written and improved.

[Excidium Planetis]

Ah, this again. If we don't expect or enforce compliance, I guess we should repeal all resolutions and cease passing any new ones.

"That's frankly absurd. The United Nations passed many resolutions that were neither enforced nor followed." Blackbourne replies. "And nobody told them to stop passing resolutions."

Prohibiting discrimination isn't the same thing as guaranteeing the right do to something that is blocked via discriminatory practices.

"They are the same."

By the logic that we can't pass resolutions just because the underlying rights is guaranteed would effectively undermine the passage of all new resolutions.

"I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean." Blackbourne replies, confused.

This is why the General Assembly rules thread specifically clarified that resolutions can specify more nuanced goals that lie within broader legislation. That was done so that the CoCR and other broad resolutions didn't prevent future resolutions from strengthening international civil rights.

"Never heard of it." Blackbourne replies.

OOC:
If discrimination is prohibited, nations cannot enact discriminatory practices. Banning same sex marriage would be discrimination, which is prohibited.

[Nova Blarazia]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

Don't worry. Even if this wins, we have multiple repeals ready against it.

Doubt there will be any of those coming from you, Willania.
You are modest. You are the most notorious forum liberal in the game bro!

[Nova Blarazia]

Ah, this again. If we don't expect or enforce compliance, I guess we should repeal all resolutions and cease passing any new ones.

Prohibiting discrimination isn't the same thing as guaranteeing the right do to something that is blocked via discriminatory practices. By the logic that we can't pass resolutions just because the underlying rights are guaranteed would effectively undermine the passage of all new resolutions. This is why the General Assembly rules thread specifically clarified that resolutions can specify more nuanced goals that lie within the broader legislation. That was done so that the CoCR and other broad resolutions didn't prevent future resolutions from strengthening international civil rights.

Even if it "needed" clarification on it, it should not be on a proposal that is poorly-drafted and horribly written, as well as grammatically incorrect. It will be an embarrassment to see a low-value piece of legislation like this deemed legal. Plus, it can set a precedent that proposals are easy to pass, even if done privately and without the input of others. We can't allow something like this to become existant.

The opposition to this is significantly larger than many other liberal resolutions. Palliath is voting against! PALLIATH!! He is, respectively, the most powerful person in the World of Nationstates. Of course, repeals are already being authored, and opposition is strong.

[Deropia]

The opposition to this is significantly larger than many other liberal resolutions. Palliath is voting against! PALLIATH!! He is, respectively, the most powerful person in the World of Nationstates. Of course, repeals are already being authored, and opposition is strong.

OOC: Though Palliaths' vote is directly tied to the votes cast on the regional forum, he could just as easily be voting for this if everyone who in TNP who voted for this 'resolution' had cast a vote in the forum poll as well.

[RCAttackDrone]

It's virtually guaranteed that if you make a low-effort resolution about gay rights or something similar, you will always pass. Let's get some creativity in the GA! This has been done before!
In addition, this is a horrendous violation of national sovereignty. The World Assembly's job is NOT legislating for nations. It's solving international problems, NOT internal problems.
So that's why I'm voting against this resolution.

[Tzorsland]

If THIS wins, I am out of the WA.

Well then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Frankly, the WA is a whole lot more fun and interesting when you are no longer in it.
Trust me on this one.
(OOC: Because I haven't had a puppet in the WA for months now.)

[Robosia]

"Yes, marriage is definitely the cornerstone of civilization, expecially one like mine where nobody ever gets married."

[Imperial Polk County]

"Yes, marriage is definitely the cornerstone of civilization, expecially one like mine where nobody ever gets married."

"Mmm hmm. And if marriage is the cornerstone, then divorce must be the rain gutter."

[Libervalley]

The only reason for any government to legally sanction the union of two people is to promote procreation. Government sanction of same-sex marriage does not accomplish that goal. The government has power to make laws but equality can only be derived from natural law.

[The Emerald Legion]

The only reason for any government to legally sanction the union of two people is to promote procreation. Government sanction of same-sex marriage does not accomplish that goal. The government has power to make laws but equality can only be derived from natural law.

I'm sorry. We can't hear you over the sound of our citizen factories that clone thousands of people every minute because sexual reproduction is for chumps. Just like marriage.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

there are no gay turtles in turtles with guns

{ OOC: Adding to signature. }

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Leaders who are openly saying things like this are the reason why this flawed bill is going to pass overwhelmingly. In a NS world where so many nations feel the way this poster does, protecting human rights is more important than grammar. I am so, so glad that the people of your nation will be able to freely marry who they choose tomorrow.

"This is a gay marriage bill, not 'marriage quality'. Tomorrow, they will still not be allowed to marry their brothers, sisters, or parents. How bigoted and incest-o-phobic. Love Is Love(TM)."

[Sierra Lyricalia]

The only reason for any government to legally sanction the union of two people is to promote procreation. Government sanction of same-sex marriage does not accomplish that goal. The government has power to make laws but equality can only be derived from natural law.

"If that were true, marriage of elderly people would be likewise prohibited, and younger couples would have to undergo fertility tests before they could march down the aisle. Since neither of these things is true, this argument is full of shit."

"Also, what the hell is 'natural law?' You know law is something we made up, right? Without a sapient mind to invent it and write it down, there's no such thing as law. The phrase 'natural law' is an oxymoron, ambassador. Just because you happen to see a couple of patterns across certain aspects of biological life doesn't mean you can make up norms to impose on sapient beings. In short, ambassador, take that argument and stick it in the shredder. It's a primitive waste of time, energy, paper, and ink."

"Now, that doesn't make this proposal good and worth passing, of course; it's just that most of the arguments against it came from a garbage fire."

[States of Glory WA Office]

"I can't believe this is passing, by such a large bloody margin too...I hate lemmings....so fucking much..."

It's not the lemmings. It is the feeders. If the delegates to The Pacific,The West Pacific,The South Pacific and The East Pacific all changed their votes from AYE to NAY this resolution would be going down. When was the last time Aleisyr ever posted on the GA forums? How about Davelands? It's all fun and games on their own regional boards and private forums and everyone suffers as a result.

Let's at least blame the proper people here. For the most part, lemmings follow the feeders. Don't blame the lemmings; blame the feeders.

For the avoidance of any doubt: I explicitly advised Davelands to stomp this proposal and I bluntly expressed my disappointment at his decision to vote in favour, which is something that I, or indeed any of my predecessors, have never done before.

[Serrus]

It's not the lemmings. It is the feeders. If the delegates to The Pacific,The West Pacific,The South Pacific and The East Pacific all changed their votes from AYE to NAY this resolution would be going down. When was the last time Aleisyr ever posted on the GA forums? How about Davelands? It's all fun and games on their own regional boards and private forums and everyone suffers as a result.

Let's at least blame the proper people here. For the most part, lemmings follow the feeders. Don't blame the lemmings; blame the feeders.

For the avoidance of any doubt: I explicitly advised Davelands to stomp this proposal and I bluntly expressed my disappointment at his decision to vote in favour, which is something that I, or indeed any of my predecessors, have never done before.

DAVE! DAAAAAVE!
Scuuuuuse me.
*sends hurried mass tg to the feeders*