NationStates

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:13 am**

So the argument runs "the bad guys like being called bad, so we should pretend that all the bad shit they did never happened"?

I don't buy it. Whatever their attitude, the condemnation serves as a warning to other nations.

Opposed.

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:10 am**

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:So the argument runs "the bad guys like being called bad, so we should pretend that all the bad shit they did never happened"?

No, it's "the bad guys cheated their way to being called bad, so the most appropriate punishment is to pretend that all the bad stuff they did never happened". I didn't realise that you supported cheats who are now Delete-on-Sight.

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:43 pm**

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:So the argument runs "the bad guys like being called bad, so we should pretend that all the bad shit they did never happened"?

I don't buy it. Whatever their attitude, the condemnation serves as a warning to other nations.

Opposed.

It's not that condemnations are regarded as badges by raiders, it's that that's what they are. It's a recognition of excellence at being evil within the binds of the rules. If there is anyone who didn't obey the rules, it's General Halcones

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:17 pm**

Whats the point of even having condemnations for raiders anymore?

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:30 pm**

Great question! There is no point to giving condemnations to raiders. Maybe we can look to RPers instead. Those who spend hours developing a storyline. If they run a proper and notorious dictator, then from the detached OOC perspective of a writer, having them recognized by the world as being terrible can speak to the effort they put into the character and nation.

That would be an interesting piece, saying we recognized your story. It's worth thinking about.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:17 am**

Does the result of this vote even matter? The nation that is currently being condemned is kinda . . . well, dead, as far as I can tell.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:19 am**

Reversla wrote:Does the result of this vote even matter? The nation that is currently being condemned is kinda . . . well, dead, as far as I can tell.

Halcones is permanently banned from the site under any name, but the repeal is to ensure he doesn't receive publicity for his rulebreaking through the condemn.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:00 am**

States of Glory wrote:
Almonaster Nuevo wrote:So the argument runs "the bad guys like being called bad, so we should pretend that all the bad shit they did never happened"?

No, it's "the bad guys cheated their way to being called bad, so the most appropriate punishment is to pretend that all the bad stuff they did never happened". I didn't realise that you supported cheats who are now Delete-on-Sight.

Ooh - bad faith snark. Way to overreach.

It is because (s)he is a cheat that (s)he should be condemned. If we can't condemn someone "because publicity", then the whole point of a condemn is lost.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:51 pm**

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:
States of Glory wrote:No, it's "the bad guys cheated their way to being called bad, so the most appropriate punishment is to pretend that all the bad stuff they did never happened". I didn't realise that you supported cheats who are now Delete-on-Sight.

Ooh - bad faith snark. Way to overreach.

It's not as if you started things in the most polite way. If you're going to dish it out then you need to take it as well.

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:It is because (s)he is a cheat that (s)he should be condemned.

Name one other nation that has been condemned based on cheating.

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:If we can't condemn someone "because publicity", then the whole point of a condemn is lost.

Publicity is the whole point of a condemnation. Condemnations haven't been actual condemnations for years now.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:43 pm**

Query: Can I have some more OOC info on Predator, out of curiosity?

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:50 pm**

Serrus wrote:Query: Can I have some more OOC info on Predator, out of curiosity?

Yes, you can, quoting from the last predator repeal thread:

Ransium wrote:See here: viewtopic.php?p=28053585#p28053585

and here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=373231

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:24 pm**

Almonaster Nuevo wrote:
States of Glory wrote:No, it's "the bad guys cheated their way to being called bad, so the most appropriate punishment is to pretend that all the bad stuff they did never happened". I didn't realise that you supported cheats who are now Delete-on-Sight.

Ooh - bad faith snark. Way to overreach.

It is because (s)he is a cheat that (s)he should be condemned. If we can't condemn someone "because publicity", then the whole point of a condemn is lost.

Alright, it looks like you just don't get the context of the situation. So a condemnation is a badge of honor at this point. It's a "good job at playing the bad guy". In a way, its almost an award for being so good at what you do.

Halcones was banned from the site for an illegal script. After that he continued to maintain and distribute another illegal script, and as a result of the script he created multiple players were marked DoS, over a dozen others received heavy punishments, and three raider orgs were banned from existing in the game, so any region by the same name will be deleted by mods.

We don't want to give a badge of honor to people who broke the site rules in that extensive of a way, that is a horrible standard/precedent to have, which is why I am in full support of this series of repeals.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:44 am**

Regardless of how it is perceived by the nation condemned, a condemnation serves to say that behaviour is wrong. Repealing a condemnation sends mixed messages and no longer serves as a warning for others. For this reason mark_onia urges honorable members to vote against this repeal and any similar repeals in future.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:55 am**

Mark onia wrote:Regardless of how it is perceived by the nation condemned, a condemnation serves to say that behaviour is wrong. Repealing a condemnation sends mixed messages and no longer serves as a warning for others. For this reason mark_onia urges honorable members to vote against this repeal and any similar repeals in future.

Thats because the nation is dead. It can't be revived, even under a new nation. There is no threat anymore from Halc.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:37 pm**

While I wasn't around for Halcones, I am voting for this repeal. Not only does the function of condemnations now defeat their purpose in a way, Halcones doesn't need to be brought up on this site again, for the aforementioned extreme amount of illegal scripting that (s)he was responsible for.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:17 am**

Repeal "Condemn General Halcones" was passed 11,836 votes to 1,767.

NationStates

[PASSED] Repeal "Condemn General Halcones"