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[PASSED] Enabling The Disabled in Academia

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Tretrid
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 176
Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Tretrid » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Mundiferrum wrote:
THE UNITED FEDERATION OF ALGORENIA wrote:
The World Assembly,

Applauding its members' continued efforts on the promotion of human rights and social justice throughout the globe, Do we even have legislation on letting other marginalized communities receive appropriate accommodation in institutions of higher education, outside of the purview of previous civil rights or education resolutions? But reading the rest of the resolution, and the title is found to stand on shaky ground -- academia, by common parlance, does not include all students, especially those yet learning to read and write.

Concerned students with disabilities continue to encounter physical barriers to educational services, such as a lack of ramps and/or elevators in multi-level school buildings, inaccessible facilities, and/or inaccessible transportation to and from school

Troubled that accommodations for students with disabilities are often made based on budgetary considerations rather than on an assessment of the actual needs of students with disabilities.These lines make me think that although the Disability Welfare Act is a far more useful resolution than this, at its shallowest it only discusses budget, excluding employee training or infrastructure. Since it also covers, at least in part, education, wouldn't it be better to do a repeal-and-replace, with the replacement covering all bases?

DEFINES disabled, for the purposes of this resolution, as having a physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities,"Condition" is dangerously vague; infancy is a condition that limits movements and activities, as well as tardiness, senility, and being in jail. Limitations to activities, too, could be understood as direct, physical limitations as well, easily excluding those with comprehension problems, a good portion, I would imagine, of what most people would consider as "disabled".

DEFINES a disabled student, for the purposes of this resolution, as an individual who suffers from the above series of limitations and attends any academic setting where the disbursement of knowledge takes place in a class setting,What about institutions of education that do not take place in a class setting? Granted, other than certain physical education courses, apprenticeships, and schools based around debates and dialectic, I can't think of any non-class-setting methods of knowledge disbursement, but I believe the WA accommodates for those in its other education-related resolutions, and I'm sure there are plenty of examples in our more advanced members.

Noting the disenfranchisement of disabled students has the potential to cause extreme social and economic harm to member nations populations through the deterioration or degradation of social equity, for example: inhibiting the rights and socioeconomic mobility of citizens, hindering social stability by destroying or causing a decline in the image of a common national bond, and nullifying the possible economic progression by under utilizing the cultural, industrial, and scientific capital these citizens could contribute,All of this should have already been tackled before your definitions. A stylistic note, but still.

Hereby, subject to any limitations set by earlier resolutions that are still in effect, including the fact that the discrimination involving certain groups of students and other protected populations may already be covered separately by such legislation:

1. Instructs the Educational systems of all WA member nations to incorporate adequate disabled student training into their administrator and teacher training process;What does "disabled student training" mean? That all administrators and teachers be trained to handle both disabled and non-disabled students, which, although somewhat idyllic, would take, for the most part, an obscene amount of time and effort, even with more advanced methods? That all curricula be mandated to teach, not only official languages, but also sign language and braille? Or that all education systems should have institutions in place that teach the disabled (however small and underdeveloped), in which case producing no fruits at all for the majority of our member states?

2. Requires WA member nations to create necessary transportation, ramp and/ or elevator accessibility, and instructional requirements for disabled students attending academic settings and seek the proper assistance if necessary in making these accommodations;"Transportation" is vague, as noted by an earlier post. "Ramp" is itself a mode of accessibility, such that all the inclusion of the term "transportation" does is, at its most illuminating example, create a taxi service for the disabled, one that isn't even mandated for most individuals seeking education; or one that isn't mandated for all other aspects of the life of disabled individuals.

3. Requires WA member nations to earnestly enforce measures designed to stop the overt and covert discrimination and non accommodation of disabled students within their domains;Which is already covered by the fact that all nations, if this proposal is voted in, are required to enforce the earlier clauses, along with previous resolutions on education, civil rights, and the disabled.

4. Urges member nations to pass legislation promoting greater accountability in the transportation, education, and sustainment of disabled students within their own borders.Sustainment?

Against. Most of our points here have probably already been noted -- we'll read through the transcripts of the rest of the statements so far presented later. We hope this passes, though, because our diplomats can't seem to draft resolutions other than repeals.

OOC: The primary motivation of the proposer was probably getting the GA resolution author badge, which they will keep even if it is repealed.
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Corentia (Ancient)
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Founded: Apr 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Corentia (Ancient) » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:55 pm

A Statement from Corentia's Most Loyal Ambassador to the World Assembly:
Corentia prides herself as a progressive nation open to all of her people including those with disabilities. However, this resolution is flawed as this would protect anyone with a 'physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities' which could be interpreted to include nearsightedness, a sore leg, a paper cut, or moodiness. It is overtly broad whilst requiring educators to accommodate such 'disabilities' under § 1 putting educators for even more burden and hard work they already do for many conditions that aren't serious. A clause that would clarify what disabilities would reasonably qualify is needed, but, alas, such is absent.

Corentia applauds the spirit of the resolution for its boldness and explicitness for the rights of people with disabilities in academia which was only briefly mentioned in other resolutions. However, the flaws make Corentia reject this resolution. We welcome another resolution fixing the problems that were outlined. Corentia will continue to support and lift to those with disabilities.

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:16 pm

Corentia wrote:However, this resolution is flawed as this would protect anyone with a 'physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities' which could be interpreted to include nearsightedness, a sore leg, a paper cut, or moodiness.

And pregnancy. Definitely a disability according to the definition used in this thing.
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Stahlhold
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Founded: Jul 05, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Stahlhold » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:36 pm

Covenstone wrote:Simply because it doesn't seem like this has had ANY debate whatsoever, and is passing because people want to feel good about themselves, I have a question.

If there is a child, of student age, who is blind and deaf, has no legs and only one arm, and in no way would be able to function properly in any kind of educational environment, what prevents them from being covered by this resolution and forcing the government to meet all of their needs at an almost ludicrous, some might say infinite, cost when clearly nothing good will come of it?

It just seems like people are approving this, and probably going to vote for this, without giving it any serious thought, and it could open up every single nation to bankruptcy and chaos within the year.


This is completely true and viable. Couldn't have stated it better.

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Azurius
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Dec 18, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Azurius » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:31 pm

Radicaster wrote:Do. Not. Vote. To. Pass. This. Resolution.
If this was passed, it would cost all WA nations extra, and also it would force nations to spend way more of their budget on their economies than they can.
So I urge all WA nations to vote AGAINST.


Which once again, fits above counter criticism. As the resolution nowhere in any way requires a nation to "spend WAY above their budget" let alone above their budgets at all even slightly.

It also in no way specifies how good of an access a nation must give. Based on that, you could literaly build access ramps built of sticks and stones and call that an "access ramp for disabled people".

Once again the same flaming criticers totally forget that the resolution works vice versa too. Actually rendering it pretty effectless depending on what the nation does with it. Which is maybe not too bad, as it allows individuality of each nation to deal with the matter.

Which is once again why I rather promote a follow up regulatorive resolution on these matters, that also include some foreign add for less economicaly developed nations. In the end despite what some may think, disabled people that constantly need help and aid in form of money, are a drain to any economy, be it private or public owned. A productive disabled person that can work and completely or partialy sustain himself, is less of a drain then an unemployed and shunned one by society. Most of the extra costs already pay off in form of economic surplus and more self sustainability by disabled people themselves.

The painted notion of a cost increase until economic collapse are both false and hyped up. As they are nowhere stated nor would such reforms leave a nation without less healthcare costs and at least some economic growth.

Hence my proposal still stands to let the resolution pass and regulate the problems this solid solution has left. As once again, since it is vague, it is easily open to change and regulation. And even if not, most of it once again largely depends on what the nation itself does with it, no nation would choose economic collapse over such reforms, hence ramps of sticks and stones and "disability" that can also be turned around to mean no one except for hard cases is really "disabled", which then once again kind of destroys the original purpose... And once again why it needs regulation.

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Solomons Land
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Ex-Nation

Postby Solomons Land » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:54 pm

In the begging I was in favor of this bill because I thought it would increase lifespan and quality of life for the disabled, however, the bill in question's author used the doshebage move of rentering the same bill into the WA.
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Redwingvksm
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Founded: Aug 18, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Redwingvksm » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:27 pm

Too ambiguous to have any meaning, otoh, can cause tons of frivolous issues. Love the idea, poorly excutited.

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Mundiferrum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 830
Founded: Apr 07, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Mundiferrum » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:17 pm

Tretrid wrote:OOC: The primary motivation of the proposer was probably getting the GA resolution author badge, which they will keep even if it is repealed.

OOC: I don't care about the author getting his/her coveted WA author badge. All I care about is that I get to give mine (x2). xD
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Mundiferrum
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Mundiferrum » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:24 pm

Azurius wrote:
Radicaster wrote:Do. Not. Vote. To. Pass. This. Resolution.
If this was passed, it would cost all WA nations extra, and also it would force nations to spend way more of their budget on their economies than they can.
So I urge all WA nations to vote AGAINST.


Which once again, fits above counter criticism. As the resolution nowhere in any way requires a nation to "spend WAY above their budget" let alone above their budgets at all even slightly.

It also in no way specifies how good of an access a nation must give. Based on that, you could literaly build access ramps built of sticks and stones and call that an "access ramp for disabled people".

Once again the same flaming criticers totally forget that the resolution works vice versa too. Actually rendering it pretty effectless depending on what the nation does with it. Which is maybe not too bad, as it allows individuality of each nation to deal with the matter.

Which is once again why I rather promote a follow up regulatorive resolution on these matters, that also include some foreign add for less economicaly developed nations. In the end despite what some may think, disabled people that constantly need help and aid in form of money, are a drain to any economy, be it private or public owned. A productive disabled person that can work and completely or partialy sustain himself, is less of a drain then an unemployed and shunned one by society. Most of the extra costs already pay off in form of economic surplus and more self sustainability by disabled people themselves.

The painted notion of a cost increase until economic collapse are both false and hyped up. As they are nowhere stated nor would such reforms leave a nation without less healthcare costs and at least some economic growth.

Hence my proposal still stands to let the resolution pass and regulate the problems this solid solution has left. As once again, since it is vague, it is easily open to change and regulation. And even if not, most of it once again largely depends on what the nation itself does with it, no nation would choose economic collapse over such reforms, hence ramps of sticks and stones and "disability" that can also be turned around to mean no one except for hard cases is really "disabled", which then once again kind of destroys the original purpose... And once again why it needs regulation.

So we should have a "Disabled Peoples' Council" or "Fund" then? Which, well, it might not be too ridiculous, if handled properly, but again, with the incredibly vague definition of what "disabled" is in the first place, literally anyone would need funding from the government; ie, no one. Whereas the definition of "student" in the resolution is pretty clear on excluding all non-class-setting-based educational systems, which in a multiverse as massive as ours excludes a lot of the students it seeks to support; and why the heck are we so intent on supporting students alone, and not providing the appropriate infrastructure and employee training in other sectors of society, sectors I'd assume are as a whole much larger than that of education? Again, the last one isn't necessarily an issue that this one proposal might have been meant to solve, but considering how little meat there is in this thing (four active clauses, one of which is redundant, the other of which is somewhat destructive), it really should have been.
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Technological level: FUTURE TECH. We also have MAGICAL TECH, and a lot of the people here still play with MEDIEVAL TECH and PRESENT TECH. We're cool that way.

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Wolfhawk
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Founded: Jan 04, 2004
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Wolfhawk » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:24 pm

honestly not sure this needs to be an international issue

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Lioaria
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Founded: Dec 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Lioaria » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:25 am

Non-discrimination is a laudable goal, and the Federation had already passed legislation in regard to this issue and would love to see other member nations do so as well. However this law is far too intrusive; going so far as to demand costly re-training of educators and infrastructure investments. With all due respect, is the WA going to decide Lioaria City's bus routes next? Our handicap parking? The paint colors of our homes? This is resolution is an issue best left to member nations governments, perhaps with guidance, but certainly not burdensome statutory requirements, from the WA.

As of right now, the Federation of Lioaria opposes this resolution.

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Nova-Columbia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Non-Discrimination

Postby Nova-Columbia » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:03 am

While non-discrimination may be the feel-good option to choose, the fact remains that occasionally, discrimination is necessary. To completely abolish the idea of discriminating against someone is ridiculous. An obese paraplegic will not function as a rifleman. A mute artist will not function as a teacher. DISCRIMINATION IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY! Unless there are major changes to the bill, Nova-Columbia's response remains negative.
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Covenstone
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Ex-Nation

Postby Covenstone » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:48 am

Nova-Columbia wrote:While non-discrimination may be the feel-good option to choose, the fact remains that occasionally, discrimination is necessary. To completely abolish the idea of discriminating against someone is ridiculous. An obese paraplegic will not function as a rifleman. A mute artist will not function as a teacher. DISCRIMINATION IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY! Unless there are major changes to the bill, Nova-Columbia's response remains negative.


Why? Why would a mute artist not function as a teacher? I understand that an obese paraplegic might not meet the physical fitness requirements for the army :- that is not discrimination, that is requirements for the job. But why would a mute artist not function as a teacher?

Also :- what does that have to do with this proposal? This is about teaching people in classes. Does it matter what they are going to go on and do?

The more I read some of these half thought through objections, the more I really want to vote yes.
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Once known
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Founded: Jul 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Once known » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:01 pm

I believe that we should continue helping the disabled obviously, what type of world would we be if we gave up on the ones unlucky enough to have this certain disability or Not be able to stand,truthly I don't see the problem with keeping ramps at schools, it helps the younger kids walk because many do not think stairs are safe for young children, and even though it may be. pain to assist the disabled they are people and should have a say in the matter of their own health and education and we can have special schools special classrooms but to stop assisting them is the most irrational thought I have ever heard

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Souryuu
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Ex-Nation

Postby Souryuu » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:58 pm

THE UNITED FEDERATION OF ALGORENIA wrote: ...
1. Instructs the Educational systems of all WA member nations to incorporate adequate disabled student training into their administrator and teacher training process;

2. Requires WA member nations to create necessary transportation, ramp and/ or elevator accessibility, and instructional requirements for disabled students attending academic settings and seek the proper assistance if necessary in making these accommodations;

3. Requires WA member nations to earnestly enforce measures designed to stop the overt and covert discrimination and non accommodation of disabled students within their domains;

4. Urges member nations to pass legislation promoting greater accountability in the transportation, education, and sustainment of disabled students within their own borders.


1. It is Souryuu's firm belief that disabled students do not belong in the same classes as normal students. Their special requirements and, on occasion, intensive individual needs interfere with that of other students. Thus we have formed specialized institutions to educate those in need of more individually specialized programs. In order to maintain a higher standard of education* within our nation, Souryuu believes in specialized programs for the disabled rather than a 'blanket' education.

2. Ramp accessibility is not completely available throughout Souryuu. However all institutions have at least one elevator for every multi-story building on campus. Institutions specializing in the education of disabled persons have all accommodations necessary for their students.

3. Capitalism is the economy of Souryuu. As such, we believe in letting the market regulate institutions. If an institution discriminates against students, that institution will not have as much potential gain as one that does not discriminate.

4. Public transportation with wheelchair access is already readily available throughout Souryuu's transportation services.

*15% of our budget goes to education - or 4,700,268,518,400 Urds.
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Wolfhawk
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Founded: Jan 04, 2004
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Wolfhawk » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:50 pm

well pending a minor miracle guess he gets his badge

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Vuori Kunin-Grrs
Envoy
 
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Founded: Jan 06, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Vuori Kunin-Grrs » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:59 pm

I have a very bad feeling that we'll get an insta-repeal right after this that completely passes...

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Freedom Community
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Founded: Jul 07, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Freedom Community » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:38 am

Covenstone wrote:If there is a child, of student age, who is blind and deaf, has no legs and only one arm, and in no way would be able to function properly in any kind of educational environment, what prevents them from being covered by this resolution and forcing the government to meet all of their needs at an almost ludicrous, some might say infinite, cost when clearly nothing good will come of it?


Is it possible, that your country is so underdeveloped you never heard about prosthethics, which can dramatically improve the life of even such harshly handicapped people? Also, as already mentioned before, you are using so draconic example, that it is highly improbable that there will even fractures of per milles in population...

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Covenstone
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Founded: Apr 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Covenstone » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:05 am

Freedom Community wrote:
Covenstone wrote:If there is a child, of student age, who is blind and deaf, has no legs and only one arm, and in no way would be able to function properly in any kind of educational environment, what prevents them from being covered by this resolution and forcing the government to meet all of their needs at an almost ludicrous, some might say infinite, cost when clearly nothing good will come of it?


Is it possible, that your country is so underdeveloped you never heard about prosthethics, which can dramatically improve the life of even such harshly handicapped people? Also, as already mentioned before, you are using so draconic example, that it is highly improbable that there will even fractures of per milles in population...


While it is true I was exaggerating to prove a point, I believe it was a point well worth making. The definition of "disabled" in this proposal has no limits (in either direction). If I get stoned (not an unreasonable proposition in university) then I would argue that I have "a mental condition that limits my abilities" which under this proposal makes me disabled under World Assembly law.

If I twist my ankle kicking a puppy to death, then I would argue that I have "a physical condition that limits my abilities" which under this proposal makes me disabled under World Assembly law.

Which SURELY cannot be what the author intended, but still falls within the bounds of the proposal.

Tell me I am wrong.
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Rivermourne
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Founded: Jun 27, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Rivermourne » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:21 am

The issues that Rivermourne sees with this proposal are that the definition of what constitutes a disability is quite vague and the requirements outlined for our nation are unlimited.

The definition does not provide an adequate finite description of what does or does not count as a disability in which the government is obligated to provide additional support. This will result in an increase of individuals requesting assistance for all minor ailments.

The other issue is the lack of limitation in which the government is required to provide assistance. Rivermourne certainly wishes to provide the best quality of life to its citizens, but we do expect some form independency. We would be able to provide special classrooms, accessability options, and some assistance in transportation (Ex: chair lifts on busses). However, providing much more than the basics to make their educational experience easier is outside the parameters of what we are willing to do.

We do urge our businesses and citizens to recognize the disabilities of others and be respectful of those individuals with disabilities. Rivermourne will continue to work with its citizens towards providing a better life experience to our disabled community without putting the entire burden on the goverment or private industry. It will have to work as a compromise.
Last edited by Rivermourne on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova-Columbia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nova-Columbia » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 am

Covenstone wrote:
Nova-Columbia wrote:While non-discrimination may be the feel-good option to choose, the fact remains that occasionally, discrimination is necessary. To completely abolish the idea of discriminating against someone is ridiculous. An obese paraplegic will not function as a rifleman. A mute artist will not function as a teacher. DISCRIMINATION IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY! Unless there are major changes to the bill, Nova-Columbia's response remains negative.


Why? Why would a mute artist not function as a teacher? I understand that an obese paraplegic might not meet the physical fitness requirements for the army :- that is not discrimination, that is requirements for the job. But why would a mute artist not function as a teacher?

Also :- what does that have to do with this proposal? This is about teaching people in classes. Does it matter what they are going to go on and do?

The more I read some of these half thought through objections, the more I really want to vote yes.


(OOC)

I'm really new to all of this, I was just saying that cause other people were talking about non-discrimination, so I gave my 2 cents. Also, artist was supposed to be autist, although the more I think about it, I realize that a high functioning autist could be a teacher, so I withdraw that point. Finally, for the army part, that is still discrimination, just discrimination based on requirements.
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Covenstone
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Founded: Apr 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Covenstone » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:20 am

Nova-Columbia wrote:
Covenstone wrote:
Why? Why would a mute artist not function as a teacher? I understand that an obese paraplegic might not meet the physical fitness requirements for the army :- that is not discrimination, that is requirements for the job. But why would a mute artist not function as a teacher?

Also :- what does that have to do with this proposal? This is about teaching people in classes. Does it matter what they are going to go on and do?

The more I read some of these half thought through objections, the more I really want to vote yes.


(OOC)

I'm really new to all of this, I was just saying that cause other people were talking about non-discrimination, so I gave my 2 cents. Also, artist was supposed to be autist, although the more I think about it, I realize that a high functioning autist could be a teacher, so I withdraw that point. Finally, for the army part, that is still discrimination, just discrimination based on requirements.


<ooc>(grin) Fair enough. Typos are always entertaining and can make for HUGE misunderstandings :)

But if you discriminate based on requirements for a job, and they are reasonable requirements (such as being able to require someone who is applying for a job as a juggler to actually be able to juggle) then it is arguably not discrimination in the way most people would understand the word.</ooc>
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The Democratic Nation of Unovia
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Democratic Nation of Unovia » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:24 am

OOC:As a disabled man and a disabled teacher, I vehemently support this bill!
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Thyerata
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Ex-Nation

Postby Thyerata » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:30 am

The Democratic Nation of Unovia wrote:OOC:As a disabled man and a disabled teacher, I vehemently support this bill!


OOC: as a disabled man, I vehemently oppose this bill!
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Excidium Planetis
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Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:47 am

Covenstone wrote:But if you discriminate based on requirements for a job, and they are reasonable requirements (such as being able to require someone who is applying for a job as a juggler to actually be able to juggle) then it is arguably not discrimination in the way most people would understand the word.

OOC:
Technically, it is discrimination, but allowed by GA#35 as "compelling practical purposes".
Current Ambassador: Adelia Meritt
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 9 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: AI wins Dawn Fleet election for High Counselor.

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