[PASSED] Commend Drasnia

[Consular]

I've considered it and it changes nothing.

My policy has always been the founder of a UCR can do whatever they please with the place. It is their region.

[Shemiki]

This nation cannot support any commendation or praise for Drasnia.

Drasnia's support of his regional founder when he dissolved the rightfully elected Supreme Court of Capitalist Paradise is extremely distasteful. This took place because a court case was going badly for the founder and regional government. That court still has vacant seats to this day.

That once great region never recovered from palace coup. Long time nations contributing to Nation States simply gave up and quit. The damage is done.

I cannot in good conscience support any praise for Drasnia after that nation's support for the founder's stomping of the rightfully elected government. I ask those of you voting in the WA to consider this matter when casting your vote.

Could you perhaps provide more detail? Say, a link to where this occurred so nations can review it and judge Drasnia's actions for themselves?

[Capitalist Producers]

Could you perhaps provide more detail? Say, a link to where this occurred so nations can review it and judge Drasnia's actions for themselves?

This is a transcript of the trial: http://capitalistparadise.com/forums/th ... case.6741/
(scroll down past all the scripting errors.)

Alas, the last page after the founder clearly lost it is missing. The founder says the trial ceased the moment he declared "no confidence" in the court. He deleted everything after that point.

These PDF files are screen captures from the end of the trial in question. They will offer continuity and context as well as fill in the missing pages at the end.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... Nud0U/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... lhVkU/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... pZY0E/view

This is the announcement the regional founder made after closing the Supreme Court: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20964752

This is the post from the former chief justice of the court: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20967626
If you do not have NS++ this is a transcript from the above post the founder suppressed:

It is an act of tyrants
I will save you the details of these lies and lies of omission of the founder but only to say The-Cid has first usurped the elected court and also Constitution of Capitalist Paradise that was enacted by vote of the members of Capitalist Paradise. This dismantle of the government is a unilateral act before a new Constitution is vote on There is no need for a vote of no confidenceAs I promised the cid if he kept this path, my final act as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court:

Mr. The-Cid I hereby decalare you DICTATOR of Capitalist Paradsise!
(all bow before his Omnipotence)

I now resign from my post and seek a free region

Farewell my once great region

ALLAH AKBAR!!

This is the post where Drasnia says claims not to condone the founder's actions but then goes on to endorse them: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20976730

And this post pretty much sums up Drasnia's continued feelings: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=24145588

The regional founder has the right to run his or her region in any fashion they choose. This I do not dispute. However, to set up a system of government and then quash it because things are not going your way is a fraud. Repentant Jihadi pretty much nailed it.

Drasnia's support of this action tells us where he is coming from.

[Ransium]

Here's Drasnia's full post (the second to last link) that seems to be at the heart of what all this has to do with Drasnia's Commendation for the curious:

Oi, don't forget me as a vocal! *Makes a frowny face for a second then bursts out laughing*

That was stress laughing sorry. *Straightens himself up* Anyways, I guess it's my turn to type out my thoughts.

During my time in NS, I've floated from region to region using various nations starting back in '08. I created Drasnia in 2012 and got the recruitment telegram from Capitalist Paradise. I joined but, like so many nations, I didn't really do much for quite a while. It wasn't until after the region got raided that I started taking part in the region, more specifically in the aftermath when we drafted our current Constitution.

During that time, I grew to love Capitalist Paradise. in October of 2013, I ran and was elected delegate of this region. I spent my administration trying to balance the two competing sides of respectful posting and freedom. I decided that enforcing our respectful posting clause in the Constitution would mean acting much like a moderator in that the only acts not permissible on the RMB would be what site moderators would suppress and would warn for on the forums. Thus I began reading the moderation forum to get an idea of what broke the rules as far as flaming and trolling and what was allowed. Simply put: Attack the post, not the poster.

Long story short, I eventually resigned as I no longer had the time needed to be delegate and I was welcomed to the Vocals. Fast forward a couple of years (almost to the day!) when we received a complaint about Capitalist Producers' behavior on the RMB. He has had many run-ins for his bad behavior but we kept letting him off with an informal reprimand. That's exactly what we did that time as well.

Unfortunately, he didn't take to kindly to it and sued us. I encourage each and every one of you to read the whole trial and see what a sham it was. The whole thing was for Producers (AKA Xyanth) to air his grievances. Over and over, he insulted each and every one of the Vocals he had the chance to question. Furthermore, the justice that he campaigned so hard for, Armus, never recused himself as a conflict of interest. No, he got to support his buddy as a justice.

Admittedly, things weren't handled so well on our end. We (collectively speaking) fell for the flamebait in the thread over and over again but we always tried to be respectful. I don't condone CID's actions. In this case, I don't believe the ends justify the means, but something had to be done. Our region has become so dysfunctional. It isn't new either. Just in my time here, I have seen quite a number of people chased off by the likes of Xyanth and those who debate like him (though he was usually the chief cause). Two or three of them were shaping to be very productive and active members of the region and would have made very good delegates in the future, but ultimately they left the whole game because of a few bad eggs.

I'm here to ask you guys - the whole region and not just y'all who are active on the RMB - what do you want to do with this region? Because right now, what we have going on is not working. We need to figure out what type of region we are to become. Are we to stay pretty much the same as some mild debate on the RMB? Should we adopt a new style such as, but not limited to, serious government type with constant legislating, do we RP more, do we want to expand our international presence? Seriously, right now is the best time to give your ideas and perhaps steer this region into something you absolutely love.

We have some of the best forum software of all the regions in the game. Seriously, it's slick af. It's a shame that it isn't being used much at all. I'd love to see the forum become active as well as our chat (and personally speaking, I'd much prefer we change to a different system like Discord than stay on IRC).

This post has been pretty rambling, but that's what my thoughts have been like since I saw what went down in real time last night. I'll leave you with one piece of advice. Capitalist Producers/Xyanth is trying to divide this region. He is trying to destroy the very thing we love. Do not give him that satisfaction. No matter what you think about the whole situation, we must unite and become a wholesome community again. You or I can disagree with how the CID took control (though it is totally his right as founder) but we must roll with the punches. What's done is done. We cannot change the past, only guide the future.

~Dras

[Consular]

Sounds like Capitalist Producers is just a troublemaker with an old grudge because Dras didn't support them getting their way.

This resolution is passing by an overwhelming margin anyway.

[Willania Imperium]

I doubt that whatever Capitalist Paradise gave to us will have very little effect on the vote. Already, people have more than overwhelmingly placed their approval for Drasnia, and even if they look at it, it will be too long for people to read and they will just ignore it.

[The Atlae Isles]

As I've been in GI for a while, I'll vote for.

But seriously, Dras, being in a UCR?

[Willania Imperium]

-le snip-

"In my eyes, you are merely crying over spilled milk. The real reason you refuse to vote for Drasnia is because of the fact that you didn't get to stay due to the court's ruling on your RMB post (which do sound a bit offensive.) Unwilling to give up the grudge, you used the rightful removal of the judges who lost their cool during the trial as a foundation for you claims as a foundation for your decision and had him connected due to him being on the opposite side."

[Gnejs]

Drasnia is a great GI voice and his contributions surely makes the game better for everyone. I've voted FOR.

[Shemiki]

Could you perhaps provide more detail? Say, a link to where this occurred so nations can review it and judge Drasnia's actions for themselves?

This is a transcript of the trial: http://capitalistparadise.com/forums/th ... case.6741/
(scroll down past all the scripting errors.)

Alas, the last page after the founder clearly lost it is missing. The founder says the trial ceased the moment he declared "no confidence" in the court. He deleted everything after that point.

These PDF files are screen captures from the end of the trial in question. They will offer continuity and context as well as fill in the missing pages at the end.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... Nud0U/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... lhVkU/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6duQO ... pZY0E/view

This is the announcement the regional founder made after closing the Supreme Court: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20964752

This is the post from the former chief justice of the court: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20967626
If you do not have NS++ this is a transcript from the above post the founder suppressed:

It is an act of tyrants
I will save you the details of these lies and lies of omission of the founder but only to say The-Cid has first usurped the elected court and also Constitution of Capitalist Paradise that was enacted by vote of the members of Capitalist Paradise. This dismantle of the government is a unilateral act before a new Constitution is vote on There is no need for a vote of no confidenceAs I promised the cid if he kept this path, my final act as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court:

Mr. The-Cid I hereby decalare you DICTATOR of Capitalist Paradsise!
(all bow before his Omnipotence)

I now resign from my post and seek a free region

Farewell my once great region

ALLAH AKBAR!!

This is the post where Drasnia says claims not to condone the founder's actions but then goes on to endorse them: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=20976730

And this post pretty much sums up Drasnia's continued feelings: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=24145588

The regional founder has the right to run his or her region in any fashion they choose. This I do not dispute. However, to set up a system of government and then quash it because things are not going your way is a fraud. Repentant Jihadi pretty much nailed it.

Drasnia's support of this action tells us where he is coming from.

Hmm...did he remove the judges himself, or merely call a vote of no confidence?

[Capitalist Producers]

Hmm...did he remove the judges himself, or merely call a vote of no confidence?

The founder removed the judges because the trial was going against the founder and regional government. Not Drasnia. Drasnia's role was to offer backdoor support for the founder's actions while saying he did not condone them.

[Capitalist Producers]

The real reason you refuse to vote for Drasnia is because of the fact that you didn't get to stay due to the court's ruling on your RMB post (which do sound a bit offensive.) Unwilling to give up the grudge, you used the rightful removal of the judges who lost their cool during the trial as a foundation for you claims as a foundation for your decision and had him connected due to him being on the opposite side."

You are misinformed.
—My reason for not supporting any praise for Drasnia is that nation supported the overthrow of a rightfully elected regional government.
—The judges were not rightfully removed. The founder did it on his own over the objections of the "vocals" who would have had to agree.
—Had you read the transcript of the trial, especially the last two pages (including the one the founder deleted) you would find the founder was prohibited from ejecting this nation until the trial was completed.
—If you read the link above you would discover that Drasnia is connected to the actions that took place in Capitalist Paradise.

[Drasnia]

Hi, I didn't want to have to post in this thread if I didn't have to, but it looks like I must.

Here's Nation Of Quebec's summary of what happened in Capitalist Paradise.

TL;DR of the TL;DR: Capitalist Producers had a history spanning years of abuse (including multiple posts and a flag that had to be suppressed by the moderators for trolling), over the course of five months where we were unable to defend ourselves in the Supreme Court, Capitalist Producers constantly insulted us without reprimand. And before we were allowed to start our defense, the court urged us to settle the case. All these factors made us believe that the court was corrupt (including an alternate justice who had been recently elected and who Capitalist Producers vigorously campaigned for)

And here's a bit of elaboration on my actions following the vote of no confidence.

Cheers!

~Dras

[Willania Imperium]

"Glad to see you here Drasnia! So, Capitalist Paradise, do you have anything to say?"

[RiderSyl]

When it comes to the UCR regional government drama being brought up by 1 nation in this thread, its relevance is being reflected in the number of against votes.

The Commendation is about Drasnia's issues authorship. Not whatever happened in that region.

[Capitalist Producers]

"Glad to see you here Drasnia! So, Capitalist Paradise, do you have anything to say?"

Yes. As long as Drasnia brought it up, let me give you a little background and context on Nation of Quebec.

Nation of Quebec is my antithesis. He is all about politically correct speech and not using phrases that are currently on the politically correct hit list. At one point Nation of Quebec suggested that any post against Gay Marriage violated the respectful posting rule. I pay just enough attention to the Politically Correct Inquisition to make sure that if some new restricted word or phrase is ridiculous enough, I use it early and often. It is my policy to point out the errors of those inquisitors when the seek extrajudicial punishment on people and/or businesses that cross some imaginary social justice line.

As you can imagine, our conversations on the RMB were not always warm and fuzzy.

Nation of Quebec proved himself to be someone that is all about control. As long as his nation is the one in control, that is. He insists that people play by the rules and the regional constitution, right up to the point those rules and constitution interfere with his view of reality. He is incapable of debate, getting his feelings hurt way too often. Any disagreement with him on any subject is called a personal attack and disrespectful. Nation of Quebec is all in favor of politically correct, safe spaces that prevent any contrary debate on any subject he holds an opinion.

Nation of Quebec's actions in the region were the inspiration for my civil action to establish a workable free speech code that protected all nations equally. Nation of Quebec filed suit against another nation claiming slander and "God Modding" as a result of an exchange in a roll play on the regional newspaper. That case was unanimously dismissed the Capitalist Paradise three justice court. I was one of the Justices.

It was that lawsuit that inspired me to try to prop up sagging free speech rights in the region while attempting to drain the politically correct swamp growing on the RMB.

Nation of Quebec was undeniably overjoyed when the founder tossed the court out. Anyone that reads the transcript of that trial will discover that under questioning, that nation threw temper tantrum after temper tantrum at each question, while refusing to answer those questions. They will also discover that Nation of Quebec walked away from the trial, refusing to participate rather than answer the questions that could not be answered without damaging the government's case.

Nation of Quebec's behavior during the trial is just one public example of demanding that everyone follow the rules while he himself is exempt from rules that are inconvenient to that nation. Like being ordered into court to give testimony for one example.

It should also be noted that I have it on good authority from one of the Capitalist Paradise "vocals" that Nation of Quebec operated the puppet that brought the "anonymous" complaint against this nation that led to the constitutional challenge. That Nation was called Big Freedom.

As for Drasnia's version of the trial... It's on line. Read it for yourself and make up your own mind. I stand by every word I wrote in that process. No excuses. No apologies. You may find it here: http://capitalistparadise.com/forums/th ... case.6741/

Drasnia brought up his post in my home region. It is only fair you should see the response:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=25904848

It would be nice to believe that Drasnia was against what happened, however his posts on the Capitalist Paradise RMB after I was ejected, and unable to defend myself, do not leave one with a lot of confidence in that claim.

Clearly Drasnia is going to get his pat on the back. Good for him. Perhaps he is far better at writing issues than he was at protecting the nations in his region.

[Ransium]

Can we please try to keep our posts to the topic at hand? I understand that in order to make your points about Drasnia you needed to bring up some things about Capitalist Paradise, but these multi-paragraph trashing of Capitalist Paradise, the founder, and now NoQ are not really relevant nor are they appreciated.

There's clearly a lot of bad blood between you and the leadership of Capitalist Paradise. You've made your point about how you think that relates to Drasnia and I think there's plenty of objective information that's been linked to for the international community to judge how these events should be taken with regard to the commendation. If you have more to say in this thread can you make sure that it is directly related to Drasnia? Thanks.

[Pogaria]

I fully support this commendation. Anyone who writes such excellent issues deserves it.

[Capitalist Producers]

Can we please try to keep our posts to the topic at hand?

Drasnia's worthiness of praise is the topic at hand.

If you have more to say in this thread can you make sure that it is directly related to Drasnia? Thanks.

If someone else on this thread asks a question, I will answer as completely while being as brief as possible, but I will do so here on this thread.

One other note. I did not bring Nation of Quebec into this. Drasnia did that. That led to the need for placing that nation's into the proper context.

[Willania Imperium]

Can we please try to keep our posts to the topic at hand?

Drasnia's worthiness of praise is the topic at hand.

If you have more to say in this thread can you make sure that it is directly related to Drasnia? Thanks.

If someone else on this thread asks a question, I will answer as completely while being as brief as possible, but I will do so here on this thread.

One other note. I did not bring Nation of Quebec into this. Drasnia did that. That led to the need for placing that nation's into the proper context.

I doubt that many people will listen to you due to the long winding explanations that can bore anyone reading it. Even if they read it, it would be hard to understand and may reveal a different truth. And even if they believe in what you posted, there would be an overwhelming majority that will make the "against" cause moot. i don't mean to sound rude, but your actions to defame Drasnia by pulling up an unrelated event back then will probably not work is a waste of time.

[Consular]

Literally nobody cares, Capitalist Producers.

Looking over the evidence, it does not look like you're the good guy in this story. Quite the opposite.

[RiderSyl]

Drasnia's worthiness of praise is the topic at hand.

Their issues authorship's worthiness of praise is the topic at hand.
Not the irrelevant nonsense you've brought up repeatedly, in this thread and on 16 separate regional RMB's that I am aware of.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

A well deserved commendation. Gladly vote for it.

[Ransium]

I'll be at work when this becomes official, but I just wanted to be the first to congratulate Drasnia. This will likely be the most popular piece of WA legislation I will ever write and I think this says more about the quality of candidate than anything else.

Also, apologies to everyone else whose name got dragged through the mud during the debate of this proposal as collateral damage.

And as for me? Onto other projects

[Abhichandra]

Commend Drasnia was passed 13,263 votes to 1,210.