[DEFEATED] Extrajudicial Punishment Ban

[United Areas of Conservatives]

"Nonsense. We torture our traitors and murderers and we're proud of it!"

[States of Glory WA Office]

"Nonsense. We torture our traitors and murderers and we're proud of it!"

Fairburn: In that case, your nation is in violation of GA #9 a.k.a. Prevention of Torture. Because of your Delegation's pride in violating WA resolutions, any and all diplomatic relations between States of Glory and the United Areas of Conservatives are hereby terminated.

[Regele Baular]

The wording of the proposal, as aforementioned, would be go to far into the military actions of WA nations.

This would also effect my nation's commitment to policing failed states and to defend the Railbite way of life. Therefore, we will change our vote and join Regel Baular and many others in opposing this motion.

The Supreme Dominion of Regele Baular wishes to express its public appreciation for this support. It is a great testament to the World Assembly that well reasoned arguments can change minds to oppose all attempts at tyranny.

[United Areas of Conservatives]

"Nonsense. We torture our traitors and murderers and we're proud of it!"

Fairburn: In that case, your nation is in violation of GA #9 a.k.a. Prevention of Torture. Because of your Delegation's pride in violating WA resolutions, any and all diplomatic relations between States of Glory and the United Areas of Conservatives are hereby terminated.

"Well than I have a depressing phone call to make..... (opens phone) Mister Woodunder, we're actually NOT allowed to torture people, and now States of Glory is terminating relations with us. What? I'm fired for not doing my job? Okay, bye then.

"Well, I'm just going to leave, forev.. AH!"

(A new, nicer looking ambassador pushes Reten aside.)

"You just need to excuse Mister Reten. I'm Al Prima, the new ambassador to the United Areas. We still vote against, just because I'm not reading all that legalese." (Kicks his shoes off and sips his cola, wearing sunglasses.)

[Europe and Oceania]

We voted for this.

[Excidium Planetis]

We voted for this.

OOC:
Of course you did.

[Projection Island]

"Nonsense. We torture our traitors and murderers and we're proud of it!"

Fairburn: In that case, your nation is in violation of GA #9 a.k.a. Prevention of Torture. Because of your Delegation's pride in violating WA resolutions, any and all diplomatic relations between States of Glory and the United Areas of Conservatives are hereby terminated.

"To be excessively fair, extrajudicial torture is not covered by that resolution unless either a government official gives approval for it, expresses approval of it, or assists with it. It is possible that their ex-ambassador was the first government official to have filled any of those criteria."

"This does bring up a good point about precisely why a proposal like this could be necessary, although the Batman argument is still effective as a counter."

[The Egyptian Pharocracial Suzerainty]

We have determined to vote against this Proposal upon the advice of Ambassador Rorschach.

"Never compromise, never relent, not even in the face of World Assembly disapproval."

[Wallenburg]

Fairburn: In that case, your nation is in violation of GA #9 a.k.a. Prevention of Torture. Because of your Delegation's pride in violating WA resolutions, any and all diplomatic relations between States of Glory and the United Areas of Conservatives are hereby terminated.

"To be excessively fair, extrajudicial torture is not covered by that resolution unless either a government official gives approval for it, expresses approval of it, or assists with it. It is possible that their ex-ambassador was the first government official to have filled any of those criteria."

"This does bring up a good point about precisely why a proposal like this could be necessary, although the Batman argument is still effective as a counter."

"Extrajudicial torture goes by several legal names. Prominently, assault, battery, and kidnapping."

[Projection Island]

"To be excessively fair, extrajudicial torture is not covered by that resolution unless either a government official gives approval for it, expresses approval of it, or assists with it. It is possible that their ex-ambassador was the first government official to have filled any of those criteria."

"This does bring up a good point about precisely why a proposal like this could be necessary, although the Batman argument is still effective as a counter."

"Extrajudicial torture goes by several legal names. Prominently, assault, battery, and kidnapping."

"None of which are necessarily illegal in their nation, Ambassador. Unless I have missed a resolution stating otherwise; I admit to not having scanned all of them yet. I was merely considering their compliance, not their sanity."

[Check-o-slow-vakki-uh]

We are against this not because We support lawless individuals attempting to enforce the law, but because we believe it may hinder the efficacy of Our police force. Were this to be resubmitted with a few problematic areas changed, We would support it wholeheartedly.

[Luziland]

i believe that allowing any civillian to "punish" others without a fair trial will only have one result. criminals will use such laws to avoid going to jail and claim they suspected their victims had committed a crime. it can also increase corruption since policemen will then be able to "punish" people they don't like for crimes they didn't commit, based on nothing but claims of suspicion. therefore i voted for this resolution.

[Wallenburg]

"Extrajudicial torture goes by several legal names. Prominently, assault, battery, and kidnapping."

"None of which are necessarily illegal in their nation, Ambassador. Unless I have missed a resolution stating otherwise; I admit to not having scanned all of them yet. I was merely considering their compliance, not their sanity."

"I believe that, if a member state has a stable enough government to obtain membership in the first place, they must already have basic violent crime laws."

[Imperium Anglorum]

"I believe that, if a member state has a stable enough government to obtain membership in the first place, they must already have basic violent crime laws."

OOC: And if they don't... well, they must have a pretty good reason not to have such a basic requirement of practically ever legal system. xD

[Projection Island]

"None of which are necessarily illegal in their nation, Ambassador. Unless I have missed a resolution stating otherwise; I admit to not having scanned all of them yet. I was merely considering their compliance, not their sanity."

"I believe that, if a member state has a stable enough government to obtain membership in the first place, they must already have basic violent crime laws."

"Having looked over the debate logs for other proposals, I do not believe you can make that claim with enough certainty to justify the 'must'. It is certainly likely, but not at all guaranteed. This said, I believe we may have spent a bit too much time on this tangent. I was merely trying to test my loophole recognition than try to seriously argue that they are at all likely to be in proper compliance, hence my use of 'excessively'."

"I believe that, if a member state has a stable enough government to obtain membership in the first place, they must already have basic violent crime laws."

OOC: And if they don't... well, they must have a pretty good reason not to have such a basic requirement of practically ever legal system. xD

OOC: A nation with Batmen (Batmans?) around every corner might never see the need.

[Bananaistan]

Neville: Our Delegation will not allow you to ban Batman. Opposed.

"Ha. Batman is nothing compared to The Great and Best Hero Ever.

"Incidentally, it's a shame that this didn't also address the issue of the obscenity and vulgarity of those uncouth "heroes" who wear their pants outside their trousers."

[Lexicor]

This proposal also fails to deal with the issue of citizen arrests and nations that have "stand your ground" laws in effect.

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

"Ha. Batman is nothing compared to The Great and Best Hero Ever.

(Image)

"Incidentally, it's a shame that this didn't also address the issue of the obscenity and vulgarity of those uncouth "heroes" who wear their pants outside their trousers."

ARI: (to his assistant) That... that's a "vigilante"?

AHUME: Supposedly.

ARI: Holy Hannah. Is that lurex?

AHUME: Spandex.

ARI: Why is he wearing a cape?

AHUME: No idea.

ARI: Doesn't he know capes are dangerous? Hornwood! No capes!

AHUME: (mumbles) No capes.

[The Ninja5 Empire]

I oppose this as it is forced and is trying to tell us how to run our nations instead of butting out of internal affairs.

[Bears Armed]

We have determined to vote against this Proposal upon the advice of Ambassador Rorschach.

"Never compromise, never relent, not even in the face of World Assembly disapproval."

OOC:

Rorschach should fit in here quite well...

[God1]

I'm against the Extrajudicial Punishment Ban because the fact that there are a lot of people who are getting kidnapped, abused and murdered. There are too many crimes going on out there and we need to bring things to justice. Criminals should have this punishment but it should determined whether they get it or not based off of what they did.

[Wallenburg]

I'm against the Extrajudicial Punishment Ban because the fact that there are a lot of people who are getting kidnapped, abused and murdered. There are too many crimes going on out there and we need to bring things to justice. Criminals should have this punishment but it should determined whether they get it or not based off of what they did.

"If your law enforcement is incapable of enforcing the law without spandex-clad lunatics doing law enforcement for them, then that is the fault of your own nation, and of little concern to the World Assembly."

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

I'm against the Extrajudicial Punishment Ban because the fact that there are a lot of people who are getting kidnapped, abused and murdered. There are too many crimes going on out there and we need to bring things to justice. Criminals should have this punishment but it should determined whether they get it or not based off of what they did.

ARI: Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "extrajudicial", ambassador. This has nothing to do with criminals being punished by the judiciary of your nation.

[Minovdigon]

The Minovdi delegation has concerns that this legislation would technically outlaw harming or killing another in self-defense. Attacking someone is of course a crime in our nation, after all, but we also recognize the right to self-defense - and since self-defense is not carried out through a "formal legal authority", it would become illegal to protect yourself from an assault!

For that reason the Emperor will be commanding his delegates to vote against this resolution.

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

ARI: As much as we pacifists loathe the idea of self-defense, we feel compelled to point out that self-defense is not an act of punishment, it's an act of self-preservation. The idea isn't to punish the other person, it's to force them to stop attacking you.