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[PASSED] Open Internet Order

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Draconae
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 103
Founded: Jan 14, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Draconae » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:36 pm

"Draconae is currently voting against this resolution for many reasons, mostly revolving around the vagueness and miswordings of the resolution. The use of "directly controls and operates facilities that are used to provide Internet access" provides a loophole for ISPs and Governments to indirectly control content, "reasonable network management" is undefined, the Internet is not the collection of protocols but the system facilitated by those protocols, and "subscriber" is never used after it is defined. With this many problems with the resolution, we cannot support it, even though we currently favor net neutrality."
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Draconae is a WA Nation
Ambassador: Marcus Valorus
Author: Internet Neutrality Act
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Influence: Regional Power (Type 5)

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Ghostopolis
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Apr 08, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ghostopolis » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:26 pm

A small child drags his feet across the chamber floor, gradually drawing the attention of many nearby delegates, ambassadors and their assorted staff. He stops his march and lifts an arm, pointing a finger at the wall directly in front of him. As the growing crowd averts their gaze to match his pointing, Ambassador Geist rises from the ground behind them and begins speaking.

"Net neutrality is good. This resolution's definitions are bad. I tend to agree that any step toward enshrining net neutrality in international law is a step worth taking, but I fear the appeal to consensus has left the door to exploitation just cracked enough that any business or organization worth its salt can yank open that door and restrict the internet all it wants. The mind boggles at how badly "reasonable network management" can be used and abused for nefarious purposes. I echo the sentiment shared by several in this chamber and expect a swift repeal, one I am highly likely to support. As it happens, my region believes in the good this resolution hopes to do, and wishes to make a statement in support of the principle of net neutrality. As it is my sworn duty to let their will be known, I cast my vote in favor of this flawed, but well-meaning resolution."

As Ambassador Geist dissipates into charcoal smoke, those turning to the child are surprised to see he too has vanished.

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Imperium Anglorum
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 12664
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Image

Imperial Foreign Office, World Assembly Ministry
Delegate, His Grace the Duke of Geneva
Lieutenant Delegate, Lord Robert North



There are a number of problems with the current GA resolution, 'Open Internet Order'. They primarily stem from a misunderstanding of how Internet service is actually expanded. Failing to work within such a structure requires companies and governments to work around those regulations at great cost, delaying network expansion and access.

Foremost, the definition of 'internet service provider' (ISP) effectively includes everyone and everything related to the Internet. The actual Internet is so complicated and dependent on so many interlocking factors that without every single piece, it would break down. Without domain name servers, it would be impossible to connect to websites like Google and NationStates. Without internet protocols, it would be impossible to convey machine-comprehensible information to tell data where to go. Without your computer or phone, it would be impossible to show and render it. Unfortunately, this definition also includes governments, which in many countries, help to provide and expand access to their citizens.

To actually operate the massive set of interlocking routing switches that is the Internet, we also need a way to tell computers where to send data so a connection can actually be established. The resolution prevents ISPs from prioritising those basic routing protocols above things like HD video streams, meaning that basic functionality common to all requests is sacrificed for those who can pay for more bandwidth.

Next, there is considerable ambiguity about this Telecommunication(s) Regulatory Authority in clause 5 and 6 (as there is a typo in one of those clauses, the pluralisation of the committee is unclear). It is granted far-reaching discretionary powers to fine and investigate ISPs, which, as established above, includes national governments. Due to the vagueness of many of the definitions in the resolution, it would not be surprising that these fines turn into ways the World Assembly can raise revenue from member states.

Finally, the definition of 'reasonable network management' also is extremely vague. What are the 'legal grounds' spoken of in the proposal? If they are established by international law, where are they defined? They certainly are not defined in this proposal. And if they are in national law, does the proposal actually do anything?

This creates a double-bind. For the proposal to be effective, it must have narrow legal grounds. But in doing so, it creates clear issues which national governments would solve by massively expanding these 'legal grounds' with domestic legislation. When that occurs, the resolution basically becomes meaningless.

With that in mind, if the resolution is meaningless, vote against a useless resolution; and if it isn't meaningless, vote against an extremely flawed set of regulations which delay and restrict basic network access to those most in need. The author cannot have it both ways.

Author: 1 SC and 56+ GA resolutions
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Elsie Mortimer Wellesley
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Twice-commended toxic villainous globalist kittehs

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The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:40 pm

Vote For Open Internet Order

⏱ March 13, 2017


Recently, members opposed to Open Internet Order have begun their attempted repeal of this resolution. According to the preliminary voting results, more than 5,500+ individual members and 3,450+ world assembly delegates voted FOR this resolution. Two specific individual members, Imperium Anglorum and Excidium Planetis, have spread and published false information. I will actively pursue all legal remedies and defend my proposed resolution. I formally ask all World Assembly Delegates and members to vote AGAINST resolutions that actively try to repeal this common-sense resolution.

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Imperium Anglorum
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 12664
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:46 pm

The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:I will actively pursue all legal remedies

NORTH: What are you going to do? Invade us? We out-populate you by an order of magnitude. Our economic production is 91 times larger than yours. Our citizens are each 3 times richer than yours. Good luck. And if you think that there are legal remedies, I would remind you that per 22 GA, all diplomats to the World Assembly are granted diplomatic immunity, and all diplomats are given protections in international law as well.

OOC: Beyond the absurdity that is that entire post, its factual inaccuracies, and its huge lettering which makes it look like it was written by a 4-year old who just discovered WordArt, the greater concern is your refusal to recognise any faults or issues with your proposition. Barrelling ahead with your eyes shut and fingers in your ears isn't going to endear anyone.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Author: 1 SC and 56+ GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
GenSec (24 Dec 2021 –); posts not official unless so indicated
Delegate for Europe
Elsie Mortimer Wellesley
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Twice-commended toxic villainous globalist kittehs

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The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:49 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:I will actively pursue all legal remedies

NORTH: What are you going to do? Invade us? We out-populate you by an order of magnitude. Our economic production is 91 times larger than yours. Our citizens are each 3 times richer than yours. Good luck. And if you think that there are legal remedies, I would remind you that per 22 GA, all diplomats to the World Assembly are granted diplomatic immunity, and all diplomats are given protections in international law as well.

OOC: Beyond the absurdity that is that entire post, its factual inaccuracies, and its huge lettering which makes it look like it was written by a 4-year old who just discovered WordArt, the greater concern is your refusal to recognise any faults or issues with your proposition. Barrelling ahead with your eyes shut and fingers in your ears isn't going to endear anyone.


"refusal to recognise any faults or issues with your proposition"? When did I say this?

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Shaktirajya
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 164
Founded: Mar 22, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Shaktirajya » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:50 pm

We believe in the complete, uninhibited free Flow and Exchange of Information, and applaud any Legislation which seeks to restrain tyrannical Governments from interrupting the free Flow and Exchange of Same anywhere in the World. Wherefore, We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, through the Office of the Divine Empress of Empresses, Her Majesty Hypatia Sophia I, in Consultation with Her Most August Assembly, the Sisterhood of Huggy-Squeezables, Their Domain, and Its Constituents, hereby vote FOR this Resolution.

Samajavadinaha Hindoho Matrurajasya Shaktirajasya Vaktaha
Nota Bene: Even though my country is a Matriarchy, I am a dude.

Pro: Hinduism, Buddhism, polytheism, legalization of drugs and prostitution, free thought, sexual freedom, freedom of speech.

Anti: Intolerant Abrahamic religion, drug prohibition, homophobia and homomisia, prudery, asceticism.

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Excidium Planetis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8067
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:12 am

The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:Two specific individual members, Imperium Anglorum and Excidium Planetis, have spread and published false information.

OOC:
The nefarious EP strikes again, spreading and publishing false information! Oooh!

Wait, what did I publish? What was false?
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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22873
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:59 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:Two specific individual members, Imperium Anglorum and Excidium Planetis, have spread and published false information.

OOC:
The nefarious EP strikes again, spreading and publishing false information! Oooh!

Wait, what did I publish? What was false?

OOC: Something something opinions differing from their own.
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

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Tzorsland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 827
Founded: May 08, 2004
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tzorsland » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:49 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:NORTH: What are you going to do? Invade us? We out-populate you by an order of magnitude. Our economic production is 91 times larger than yours. Our citizens are each 3 times richer than yours. Good luck. And if you think that there are legal remedies, I would remind you that per 22 GA, all diplomats to the World Assembly are granted diplomatic immunity, and all diplomats are given protections in international law as well.


THE MASTER: Are the teenagers picking on the grade schoolers again? For the record, we have 5 times the population of your nation. Our economic production is 18 times larger than yours. Our arms manufacturing unit (Ranked 1,932 in the WORLD) is 53 times your current ability. Our resources are always available, if the price is right. And since we are not an official member of the WA we don't have to worry about the complications of existing GA resolutions. I really should set up a booth should anyone be interested in our resources.

OOC: Let's not make this a who has the oldest nation context. Besides I don't have a dog in this fight.
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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:23 am

Plescori wrote:
The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:
Permits Internet Service Providers to employ reasonable network management controls.


In this particular scenario, how is the word "reasonable" defined? And how much control do they have over the network in order for them to "manage" it?

It is defined by the law-courts in the nations concerned, when cases are brought against the ISPs there, if the nation's government doesn't actually pass a specific law on the matter itself.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
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States of Glory WA Office
Minister
 
Posts: 2105
Founded: Jul 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby States of Glory WA Office » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:33 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
The Free and Sovereign State of Thailand wrote:Two specific individual members, Imperium Anglorum and Excidium Planetis, have spread and published false information.

OOC:
The nefarious EP strikes again, spreading and publishing false information! Oooh!

Wait, what did I publish? What was false?

OOC: The idea that requests are binding, of course. Your refusal to accept otherwise has permanently killed any hope that a newbie might 'request' a nation to do something without being bombarded by legality arguments. :P
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Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11843
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:06 am

This order does not ensure net neutrality, as it only bans arbitrary throttling. Thus, throttling according to a pay scale is perfectly legal.

Against.
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Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

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Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:10 am

Philjia wrote:Thus, throttling according to a pay scale is perfectly legal.

And that would be a bad thing because...? (OOC: That's how it is in the Real Life world, too. If you want a faster connection, you have to pay a higher price, and prepaid internet access is a real thing.)
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Tzorsland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 827
Founded: May 08, 2004
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tzorsland » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:35 am

Araraukar wrote:And that would be a bad thing because...?


I would assume it is because they want net neutrality, which considers throttling evil. However since the resolution doesn't mention "net neutrality" (It is the Open internet Order) who cares. On the other hand does this resolution actually do what the title says; make it "open." Again, who cares.

P.S. I hate Who, but that should be obvious by now.
"A spindizzy going sour makes the galaxy's most unnerving noise!"
"Cruise lightspeed smooth and slient with this years sleek NEW Dillon-Wagoner gravitron polarity generator."
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Virabhadran
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Mar 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Virabhadran » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:12 am

I feel like this idea gives too much power to the international level instead of more efficient ways, like giving it to the individual nations.
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Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:43 pm

Tzorsland wrote:On the other hand does this resolution actually do what the title says; make it "open."

I think the "open" part is "out in the open", in the sense that the ISPs can't drop any hidden costs onto unsuspecting subscribers and cannot randomly restrict access to only, for example, to sites that Google a certain search function/advertizement service approves of, and not the others.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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Tzorsland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 827
Founded: May 08, 2004
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tzorsland » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:53 am

Araraukar wrote:I think the "open" part is "out in the open", in the sense that the ISPs can't drop any hidden costs onto unsuspecting subscribers and cannot randomly restrict access to only, for example, to sites that Google a certain search function/advertizement service approves of, and not the others.


I don't think it does that. Let's suppose you have a site that creates a list of web sites that are "real news" and "fake news." Let's assume that the ISP uses that list to filter out web sites. Is it "arbitrary?" Not from the ISP point of view, because it is using a solid rule to do that blocking or filtering.

Not that it matters because it has passed and has become WA law (81% margin, but you never know how the lemmings will vote on a repeal). Enjoy.
"A spindizzy going sour makes the galaxy's most unnerving noise!"
"Cruise lightspeed smooth and slient with this years sleek NEW Dillon-Wagoner gravitron polarity generator."
AKA Retired WerePenguins Frustrated Franciscans Blue Booted Bobbies A Running Man Dirty Americans

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Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:10 am

Tzorsland wrote:Not that it matters because it has passed and has become WA law (81% margin, but you never know how the lemmings will vote on a repeal). Enjoy.

OOC: Don't worry, the General Resolution Repeal Regiment (GRRR) seems to be working on wiping it out already. :P
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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Kitzerland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 863
Founded: Sep 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Kitzerland » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:41 am

Araraukar wrote:
Tzorsland wrote:Not that it matters because it has passed and has become WA law (81% margin, but you never know how the lemmings will vote on a repeal). Enjoy.

OOC: Don't worry, the General Resolution Repeal Regiment (GRRR) seems to be working on wiping it out already. :P

Imperium Anglorum and a bunch of chairs? :blink:
terrible takes plz ignore

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