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PASSED: Commend Kandarin

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Charlotte Ryberg
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PASSED: Commend Kandarin

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:17 pm

SECURITY COUNCIL

Commend Kandarin
A resolution to recognize outstanding contribution by a nation or region.

Category: Commemdation | Nominee: Kandarin | Proposed by: Todd McCloud

Description: RECOGNIZING the player of Kandarin as a leader in various aspects of NationStates.

OBSERVING his tireless efforts in maintaining order, stability, and leadership in a "collecting" region without means of ejecting or banning the competition.

VIEWING his knowledge, teaching, and leadership in NationStates roleplay, in both in character and out of character aspects, for off-site and on-site forums.

OFFICALLY praises the player behind the nation of Kandarin and recognizes his achievements with a commendation from the World Assembly.

Voting ended at 5pm BST, and was passed as WA #52 with 3,476 votes to 1,075. 4,556 votes were cast.
Last edited by Sirocco on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:13 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Vandengaarde
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Vandengaarde » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:42 pm

Hmm. I see this is new..

what exactly have they done? I see no purpose in the giving of praise to a nation no one has heard of.
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Crazy girl
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Crazy girl » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:48 pm

No one has heard of? Maybe you never heard of Kandarin, but he is quite well-known throughout the NS world.

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Todd McCloud
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Todd McCloud » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Vandengaarde wrote:Hmm. I see this is new..

what exactly have they done? I see no purpose in the giving of praise to a nation no one has heard of.

He's the delegate of The Rejected Realms and has a very storied past. A beacon of reason in the sea that is NationStates, and a leader in the roleplay community. Hang out with a lot of the NSers, you'll understand.
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Ballotonia
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Ballotonia » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:36 pm

Greetings and Salutations,

In order to ensure commendations and condemnations do not lose their strong meaning, the World Assemblee should hold back on grating too many of them. The fewer badges we hand out, the more meaningful those badges will be. It would be my preference to stick to handing no more than a very highly select handful of each.

Now let's also consider the wide range of contributions Kandarin has provided to the game, not just those contributions in and of themselves, but also in comparison to what other leadership figures in nationstates have achieved. In that light, I must conclude that Kandarin does meet and exceeds the highest possible qualifications for receiving a badge of merit: The WA Commendation. As such , The Free Democracy of Ballotonia fully supports this resolution.

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SilentScope4
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby SilentScope4 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:40 pm

The proposal mentions "the player behind Kandarin". Who is this 'player'? Is this resolution seeking to break the fourth wall?

Other than that, I would really like for the proposal to detail said storied history of the nation of Kandarin, rather than asking us to vote for a person that some of us may not be familar with, due to the fragmentation of the NS Community. It can't be that hard. Look at how proposal of Macedon, which explained in detail the history of Macedon. Same thing for Kandarian. Talk about his great rule over The Rejected Relams, and how he bought security to that region without needing to kick or ban anybody, and how he helped the community within The Rejected Relams out.
This is the place to move your nation from one region to another. A fleet of military-grade choppers will fly in and physically transport SilentScope4 to a better location.

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Far-Tortuga
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Far-Tortuga » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:59 am

SilentScope4 wrote:The proposal mentions "the player behind Kandarin". Who is this 'player'? Is this resolution seeking to break the fourth wall?

Other than that, I would really like for the proposal to detail said storied history of the nation of Kandarin, rather than asking us to vote for a person that some of us may not be familar with, due to the fragmentation of the NS Community. It can't be that hard. Look at how proposal of Macedon, which explained in detail the history of Macedon. Same thing for Kandarian. Talk about his great rule over The Rejected Relams, and how he bought security to that region without needing to kick or ban anybody, and how he helped the community within The Rejected Relams out.


Far-Tortuga echoes the sentiments put forth above. As a small nation threatened by an imperial power, we are of course supportive of those who strive to maintain order and fairness within their perspective regions. However, we are also a fairly isolated nation and have never heard of Kandarin until now. The current proposal as written is essentially blank when it comes to the merits of the nation it is supposed to be honoring.

We condemned Macedon because their despicable history was laid out in the proposal (although we did learn a good deal of them through the reports surrounding the Belgium invasion and on-going oppression). Unfortunately, we cannot in good conscience vote to Commend Kandarin, simply because we see no proof of their merit other than hearsay.

As of this time Far-Tortuga is voting Against the proposal in question. We felt it was necessary to take such a step because of our concerns and dissatisfaction with the current proposal's writing. Our "no" vote is not a condemnation of Kandarin, but of this vague and uninspiring proposal. We are sorely disappointed that the first example of a Commendation to reach a vote does not show the same care and dedication to proving its case as did the first Condemnation.

EDIT OOC: Also I voted against it because I personally would like to see these sorts of proposal being in-character and not breaking the fourth-wall.
Last edited by Far-Tortuga on Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Australian Asia
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Australian Asia » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:04 am

We're firendly. For.

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TannerFrankLand
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby TannerFrankLand » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:00 am

I vote for. Kandarin is the most deserving to be comended first.

And while writing a little bit about him might have helped, the vast majority of voters will know who he is and all he's done.
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Quovar
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Quovar » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:22 am

We in Quovar have certainly heard of the nation of Kandarin, and agree that it has been a significant force in the peace and stability of The Rejected Realms and the NS world as a whole. But the wording of the proposal is confusing. What is this talk about a "player" and about "roleplay"? Such talk seems to imply that our world is a GAME! That is crazy talk!

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Vandengaarde
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Vandengaarde » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:03 am

while he may be heard of, my beliefs here are that we should be focusing on much greater things. We have had two resolutions in a row for C&C while we haven't even voted on laws of the world for quite a while. I have voted no because it is rather foolish to be handing out images while there are problems in the world to fix.
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Absolvability
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Absolvability » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:26 am

OOC: Well, I do not believe C&Cs need, at this time, abide by the 'fourth wall' or meta-gaming rules. It has not yet been decided whether C&Cs are exclusive IC or OOC... and therefore, one can only assume they are both. I hope that whenever some rules come out there will be an IC and an OOC version allowed... with an evident distinction between the two, for the pleasure of readers.

For now though I have been content to read the resolutions OOCly... while always casting my vote ICly, and doing my best to translate the reasons for my character. I feel that doing so has been much easier for the Condemnations than it will be for the Commendations.

I have seen Kandarin... though I don't suppose we've "met," per se, and he seems to be very intelligent and reasonable. However, as a fairly new face to this whole scene, I'm not immediately aware of anything Kandarin has done. Perhaps, as Todd did, the author (or Kandarin himself?) of this resolution might like to point out some specifics for us.

Naturally, I'll be doing some research of my own on the matter. Trying to find something that I can translate into an IC reason to vote. OOCly, I very much want to, you see. Commending is much more fun than Condemning. However, the condemnations regarded VERY bad things... and so, conversely, I can only hope that Kandarin must have done something VERY good to warrant being Commended.

My first instinct is to wonder about him being the Delegate of The Rejected Realms. They have a bad reputation in many circles... and if it can be shown to me that he has been a force of reason and stability while holding such a questionable post I might consider that reason enough to vote in favor.
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Dyr Nasad
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Dyr Nasad » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:06 am

My nation is completely FOR, Kand definitely deserves to receive this.

Even though some people have stated that they don't know him, they are probably in the minority. Kandarin has made a large, lasting contribution to this game.

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Plutoni
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Plutoni » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:23 am

Absolvability wrote:My first instinct is to wonder about him being the Delegate of The Rejected Realms. They have a bad reputation in many circles... and if it can be shown to me that he has been a force of reason and stability while holding such a questionable post I might consider that reason enough to vote in favor.
After Plutoni's entire region was ejected overnight--we've never discovered why--Kandarin was quick to welcome me to the Rejected Realms. Though I didn't stay long, it was certainly a nice gesture.

Still not sure how to proceed with these. Abstain for now.
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Todd McCloud
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:08 pm

SilentScope4 wrote:The proposal mentions "the player behind Kandarin". Who is this 'player'? Is this resolution seeking to break the fourth wall?

Other than that, I would really like for the proposal to detail said storied history of the nation of Kandarin, rather than asking us to vote for a person that some of us may not be familar with, due to the fragmentation of the NS Community. It can't be that hard. Look at how proposal of Macedon, which explained in detail the history of Macedon. Same thing for Kandarian. Talk about his great rule over The Rejected Relams, and how he bought security to that region without needing to kick or ban anybody, and how he helped the community within The Rejected Relams out.

I actually purposefully wrote the resolution as this, because I felt C&C's could be more OOC on an individual player's level. For instance, no one is commending the nation Kindjal on having the largest public sector in NationStates (today's category). It almost begs for in-game achievements that go beyond what the "nation" represents. How does one write a C&C ICly when the nation, or player, has many OOC achievements? It's almost like ignoring a huge part of what the nation, or player, has done to impact the game in what he or she did.

I'm not saying a C&C can't be written ICly, but I do believe for individual nations, OOC C&C's are very acceptable.
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Brunnhildar
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Brunnhildar » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:37 pm

The Republic of Brunnhildar would like to express confusion and disappointment at this proposed Resolution.

Brunnhildar firmly thinks that any recognition for any state should come naturally and not through what sets a very bad precedent. Our government fully expects that we'll see nations being nominated for being 'a swell country and all round great guys' if resolutions like and equivalent to this go through.

We also question the nation proposing this resolution, Kandarin does not have the Largest Public Sector. Our research indicates a placement of '3000+'. Especially as it seems unable to have a working economy while retaining its principals in both Civil and Political Rights. It does not strike Brunnhildar that this is a country worthy of being stuck of a plinth as an example to the rest of the world.

Brunnhildar votes no, firmly.

OOC: I've voted no on this resolution because I've seen examples of wank like this before, and I'm unamused that you're involving the rest of the game in your attempt to 'get some'. Metaphorically or otherwise. Grow up and learn to both subtlety and endear via your own merits, not ones others create for you.

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Todd McCloud
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:39 pm

Brunnhildar wrote:OOC: I've voted no on this resolution because I've seen examples of wank like this before, and I'm unamused that you're involving the rest of the game in your attempt to 'get some'. Metaphorically or otherwise. Grow up and learn to both subtlety and endear via your own merits, not ones others create for you.


What?
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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Zylbedossnia
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Zylbedossnia » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:03 pm

I'm pretty sure when you condemn something it's a bad thing yet in this case it's a good one where is the logic in that?
I find that it is a rather pointless resolution and therefore I'm voting against it

it seems as though I have made a slight error
this does not change my vote because what has this nation actually done for the rest of the world? are they a regional protector? or have they just been a nation that keeps to themselves?
Last edited by Zylbedossnia on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Quintessence of Dust
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Quintessence of Dust » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:38 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:How does one write a C&C ICly when the nation, or player, has many OOC achievements?
That's like saying: "how do you use a Global Disarmament proposal to stop invading?"

You don't.
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Iracema
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Iracema » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:51 pm

We are a new Nation, we didn't have opportunity of know in real time the acts and words of Kandarin, but everything is documented and it is enough to seek. We sought, we knew and we voted: in favor.

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West-Flanders
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby West-Flanders » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:08 pm

Zylbedossnia wrote:I'm pretty sure when you condemn something it's a bad thing yet in this case it's a good one where is the logic in that?
I find that it is a rather pointless resolution and therefore I'm voting against it


commend <=> condemn
Last edited by West-Flanders on Sun Dec 31, 9999 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Far-Tortuga
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Far-Tortuga » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:18 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
Brunnhildar wrote:OOC: I've voted no on this resolution because I've seen examples of wank like this before, and I'm unamused that you're involving the rest of the game in your attempt to 'get some'. Metaphorically or otherwise. Grow up and learn to both subtlety and endear via your own merits, not ones others create for you.


What?


OOC: Seems to me that Brunnhildar is interpreting the proposal as essentially an ego-boosting circle jerk. And with the writing of the proposal, I think he has a point in believing that. The proposal doesn't tell us anything definitive about Kandarin's merits. All we have to vote on is the following:

Kandarin is a regional delegate.

He's apparently smart.

The writer of the proposal really likes him.

There has to be hundreds of nations who fit into those categories. To those of us who had no idea who Kandarin is before this came up to a vote, the proposal is essentially just some guy saying he likes some other guy, and has enough delegate friends to get an ego-boosting proposal through quorum. It sets a very, very weak precedent for C&C proposals, especially Commendation.

Personally, I don't think we're going to be seeing a lot of good commendations versus condemnations. It is easy to stand out for being evil, but much more difficult to make a name for yourself as someone who is exemplary. People assume that others will act in an acceptable manner, and tend to ignore those who just exceptionally acceptable. I see nothing in this proposal that would convince me to vote for Kandarin as an exceptional member of the NationStates communities. For all I know the proposal could have just been railroaded through by some small clique, and now its going to pass because at least a third of all delegates vote "Yes" without actually reading the proposal. Again, it sets a bad precedent where commendations will be cheapened as they're used by cliques to give their friends the equivlent of kindergarten "gold stars."

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Dyr Nasad
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Dyr Nasad » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:19 pm

this may be a little feeder-centric, but if you don't know Kand, who would YOU consider famous???

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Far-Tortuga
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Far-Tortuga » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:31 pm

Whether Kandarin is, in fact, famous or not is not the point of our objections. We are objecting to a vaguely worded proposal that gives no proof of that nation's fame. We feel it is the duty of these proposals to give examples and to convince those of us who do not personally know the nominee(s) WHY they are worthy of such attention from the World Assembly.

When it comes to making a specific case for Kandarin's worthiness, this proposal fails spectacularly. We have no examples of leadership, no testimonials on their governance. We don't even know what realm they're a delegate of! This proposal is built on the vaguest hearsay imaginable. You could replace "Kandarin" with the name of any half-intelligent regional delegate and have a proposal of the same sustenance.

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Whamabama
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Re: AT VOTE: Commend Kandarin

Postby Whamabama » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Kandarin is definably worthy of commendation. I don't think we should hand these out like Candy, but I am sure that Kandy does deserve one. If not him then I would find it hard to believe anyone is deserving of one.

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