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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:33 pm
by Cerian Quilor
No, because the NPO's solution has involved stiffling freedom and democracy. TNP has managed to maintain democracy and retain a free and open society. In the Freedom v.s. Security argument, TNP has decided 'why not both?'

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:03 am
by Guy
A few smaller comments:

1. I'm not sure that "Upholding the ... supremacy of the legislature" is accurate. I'm possibly being a bit nitpicky, but legislative supremacy to me implies that the legislature is the final arbiter over whether statutes and acts (lower-case) are within power (i.e. are "constitutional"). It is essentially an equivalent to parliamentary sovereignty, in a very Diceyan sense. It is clear that the Court in TNP is in fact that final arbiter, not the legislature.

2. Unless he thinks otherwise, I'm not sure you should refer to The Northern Lights as a r3n puppet - to my understanding, it serves a regional purpose. This is so especially as you are citing that function later on. In any case, I think that referencing one will suffice - it's not the number of nations r3n has in TNP that's significant, it's his involvement in the region.

3. "500 or so typically seen of a feeder delegate just a few years ago to over 1,200 now". I have some issue with "typically seen of a feeder delegate". It is typical (somewhat) at this point in time, and perhaps when the increase occurred, but the Security Council has also known a period of 100-150 endo feeder delegates. Perhaps note the present endo-gap instead.

4. "After TNP released a statement supporting the Lazarene Underground State ... and retracted embassies with the NLO regime..." Now, don't get me wrong, Eluvatar and Asta's involvement in that victory was of extreme importance. Just about everyone condemned and retracted embassies, so I'd concentrate on the military aspects instead.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 pm
by Unibot III
Guy wrote:1. I'm not sure that "Upholding the ... supremacy of the legislature" is accurate. I'm possibly being a bit nitpicky, but legislative supremacy to me implies that the legislature is the final arbiter over whether statutes and acts (lower-case) are within power (i.e. are "constitutional"). It is essentially an equivalent to parliamentary sovereignty, in a very Diceyan sense. It is clear that the Court in TNP is in fact that final arbiter, not the legislature.


Perhaps, "the supremacy of the legislature over the executive" would be more accurate, yes. However, it should be said supremacy ultimately lies with the body that can change any law, not with the final source of interpretation. Just as TNP's courts can strike down a law, so too can TNP's RA rewrite whole laws and the Bill of Rights itself. Thus, the courts are only the servants, the mandarins, of the legislature. If the courts are thought of to be the eyes and brain of the region, and the executive, the head, then it follows the RA is the neck. Power ultimately lies with the neck to change course.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:07 pm
by Unibot III
So here are some comprehensive edits. I've changed the preamblatory terms to be capitalized - so that it's consistent with the operative clause. It's a bit old school, but I think the output is a very elegant resolution.

The problem I have with this draft is it's a bit too minimalist. I think what it's missing is a clause on TNP's history - not necessary to say its history is commendable, but to introduce readers to the character and the history of the North Pacific. I'd like to see a resolution that kind of mythologizes its past. Regions as old as TNP are like big oak trees, every limb and crevice is apart of its character, it's grown with the game. After reading the resolution, you should have stuff like 'Magicality City' and 'Tresville' impressed upon you.

You've got the boilerplate, this text does the hard work for you. But until the reader can smell the saltwater and rum on it, it's not there yet. To do that requires you to, rather than put your own individuality as an author into the text, embody the region's personality. As I've said in the past, the best way to do this is to talk to natives and do a lot of research. A good commendation is a kind of portrait.

Here's some stuff I would look at:
An analysis and history of TNP's constitution by Eluvatar: The Blackshear Constitution.
Past TNP Constitutional Law.
Coverage of the Pixiedance Affair -

Sir Paul's excellent series on GCRs - it's primers on GCRs and their relationship with TNP, circa 2005.)
Interview with Flemingovia on Flemingovianism. (TRT - The Church of Satan.)

Hope this helps...

With Markup

The Security Council,

Recalling perhaps the world's most widely-known fact, that all nations are founded in one of the five feeders, of which the North Pacific (TNP) is the largest;

Regarding the North Pacific, one of five feeder regions in NationStates, as an example for others to follow in terms of achieving regional stability and security through democratic means;

Noting that after the various coups d'état it had suffered in its early years – inflicted by the likes of Great Bight, Pixiedance, The Crimson Order, Shoeless Joe and Durkadurkiranistan I & II (many of which whom are cited by previous Security Council resolutions*) – TNP have has endeavored after each liberation to recover and prevent future such events in a manner that was consistent with its democratic heritage, such as:
  • The creation of a Bill of Rights which recognises national sovereignty;
  • Upholding the rule of law and the supremacy of the legislature over its executive powers;
  • Establishing a Security Council of trusted and influential residents - responsible to the region and the constitution - which oversees the region's security and responds to threats as they arise;
  • A contemporary endorsement trading scheme which, rather than discouraging non-executive nations from gaining endorsements, encourages endorsement trading – ultimately aiding in TNP's retention of newcomers and its overall regional security, in addition to the average nation in TNP amassing 16 endorsements.

    *: See SC#33, 34, 49, 63, 129, 168, and 169.
Realising Recognizing that TNP's delegate endorsement counts has risen to 1,200 as of late - more than double the contemporary average of its fellow feeder regions; gone from the 500 or so typically seen of a feeder delegate just a few years ago to over 1,200 now ( one catalyst of which may have been a mass campaign to endorse then-delegate HMS Unicorn at the end of 2014, a bump momentum which once saw an 85% delegate endorsement rate amongst the region's WA nations, as well as a rise in endorsements from 490 to over 600);

Acknowledging that TNP is currently home to various many nations nominees of past commendations which have been Commended by this august body, including Eluvatar, Flemingovia, McMasterdonia, Renaissancistic People, Evil Wolf, Astarial, Mousebumbles and Sanctaria (a nation that technically resides in Europeia, but which operates two colonies widely recognised in TNP, [nation=short]HMS Unicorn[/nation] and [nation=short]The Northern Light[/nation]);

(You've missed a lot of commended TNP players. There have been loads. Westwind and Ananke may or may not count. Ananke was a long, long time TNPer - basically the go-to NPAer at one point - and Westwind was a delegate but also couped TNP...; technically I was commended but I wouldn't list me, I was a minister but I was also banned. lol. )

Praising its efforts to keep its regional members informed on WA and regional activities through its many dispatches, via The Northern Light, its WA vote recommendations and historically, The North Pacific Wire;

(This is a bit of a nod to Sir Paul. I would commend him five times over if given the chance. I'm not sure if the Northern Light is commendable, but Sir Paul's work in the North Pacific Wire is some of the best stuff written in the game. Lovely work.)

Closely reading the many dispatches put out by The Northern Light, which publicises periodicals carrying notable, current statistics concerning TNP, as well as World Assembly vote recommendations that are reviewed and followed by hundreds of WA nations in TNP soon after new WA resolutions come to vote (therefore enabling TNP to be possibly the world's most influential region when it comes to WA voting); and

Recalling how the North Pacific Army has assisted other regions in some notable crises:
  • April 2015 - During the occupation of Lazarus, the NPA provided material and tactical support for the Lazarene Underground State;
  • Summer 2013 - The North Pacific opposed the rogue delegacy of the Dourian Embassy in Osiris and the subsequent Gatesville occupation.;
  • April 2013 - The NPA supplied key military aid to its allies, the Coalition of the South Pacific in its fight against the South Pacific People's Republic (SPPR);

(Your original section was just a bit too verbose.)

Not forgetting how the North Pacific Army have helped their Feeder and Sinker allies in their darkest hours, to conclude this list of awe-inspiring achievements by TNP:
In April 2015, the Lazarene WA Delegate Stujenske (which was supported by the New Lazarene Order, a long-standing puppet regime of the Pacific) conducted the condemnable (and, as per this august body, Condemnable) act of suspending the constitution of the People's Republic of Lazarus (PRL). After TNP released a statement supporting the Lazarene Underground State (made up of former notable nations from the PRL) and retracted embassies with the NLO regime, they aided in freeing Lazarus from NLO control, handing back power to the PRL.
In June/July 2013, the WA delegation of The Dourian Embassy (TDE) narrowly lost the Osiran WA Delegacy election to Cormac A Stark (currently known to the multiverse as Cormactopia II). Subsequently, the government of TDE was passed around various notable nations in Gatesville, before landing in the control of former rogue TNP delegate Durkidurkastan II. TNP stated support for incumbent Pharoah Cormac A Stark, who was later assisted to return to their rightful position after about a month of endorsement-building.
In April 2013, the WA Delegate of the South Pacific, Milograd (supported by Durkidurkastan II), showed their colours as a rogue delegate, ruthlessly banjecting hundreds of natives of TSP and suspending all regional laws. Having again proclaimed support for the native Coalition of the South Pacific, TNP was to supply military aid to their allies in order to assist native Brutland and Norden's successful battle to become the WA Delegate of the region. Thus, the Security Council:


HEREBY COMMENDS the North Pacific.


Without Markup

The Security Council,

REGARDING the North Pacific, one of five feeder regions in NationStates, as an example for others to follow in terms of achieving regional stability and security through democratic means;

NOTING that after the various coups d'état it had suffered in its early years – inflicted by the likes of Great Bight, Pixiedance, The Crimson Order, Shoeless Joe and Durkadurkiranistan I & II (many of whom are cited by previous Security Council resolutions*) – TNP has endeavored after each liberation to recover and prevent future such events in a manner consistent with its democratic heritage, such as:
  • The creation of a Bill of Rights which recognises national sovereignty;
  • Upholding the rule of law and the supremacy of the legislature over its executive powers;
  • Establishing a Security Council of trusted and influential residents - responsible to the region and the constitution - which oversees the region's security and responds to threats as they arise;
  • A contemporary endorsement trading scheme which, rather than discouraging non-executive nations from gaining endorsements, encourages endorsement trading – ultimately aiding in TNP's retention of newcomers and its overall regional security, in addition to the average nation in TNP amassing 16 endorsements.
*: See SC#33, 34, 49, 63, 129, 168, and 169.

RECOGNIZING that TNP's delegate endorsement count has risen to 1,200 as of late - more than double the contemporary average of its fellow feeder regions; one catalyst of which may have been a mass campaign to endorse then-delegate HMS Unicorn at the end of 2014, momentum which once saw an 85% delegate endorsement rate amongst the region's WA nations, as well as a rise in endorsements from 490 to over 600);

ACKNOWLEDGING that TNP is currently home to many nominees of past commendations, including Eluvatar, Flemingovia, McMasterdonia, Renaissancistic People, Evil Wolf, Astarial, Mousebumbles and Sanctaria;

PRAISING its efforts to keep its regional members informed on WA and regional activities through its many dispatches, via The Northern Light, its WA vote recommendations and historically, The North Pacific Wire;

RECALLING how the North Pacific Army has assisted other regions in some notable crises:
  • April 2015 - During the occupation of Lazarus, the NPA provided material and tactical support for the Lazarene Underground State;
  • Summer 2013 - The North Pacific opposed the rogue delegacy of the Dourian Embassy in Osiris and the subsequent Gatesville occupation;
  • April 2013 - The NPA supplied key military aid to its allies, the Coalition of the South Pacific in its fight against the South Pacific People's Republic (SPPR);
HEREBY COMMENDS the North Pacific.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:26 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Good grief - is there any bit left that is original?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:11 pm
by Unibot III
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Good grief - is there any bit left that is original?


It's a Robocop of a draft, I'll admit...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:08 pm
by Tinhampton
Just to let y'all know that Draft 3's BETA is finally up.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:19 pm
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Tinhampton wrote:Just to let y'all know that Draft 3's BETA is finally up.

Overblown and unoriginal.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:39 pm
by States of Glory
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Good grief - is there any bit left that is original?

*shrugs* Personally, I've seen GA resolutions (not proposals, actual resolutions) more unoriginal than this, so I'm not complaining.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:47 pm
by Tinhampton
Any new complaints before I attempt to send this to the Security Council Commendation Board?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:42 pm
by The Stalker
Tinhampton wrote:Any new complaints before I attempt to send this to the Security Council Commendation Board?


Well your gonna run into the same problem i'm having with my draft. It's too long, you're only allowed 3,500, including spaces and coding. Your draft is at roughly 4,133, not counting region coding which makes it longer.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:01 pm
by Unibot III
The Stalker wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Any new complaints before I attempt to send this to the Security Council Commendation Board?


Well your gonna run into the same problem i'm having with my draft. It's too long, you're only allowed 3,500, including spaces and coding. Your draft is at roughly 4,133, not counting region coding which makes it longer.


? It doesn't look like it's overly long.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:06 pm
by The Stalker
Unibot III wrote:
The Stalker wrote:
Well your gonna run into the same problem i'm having with my draft. It's too long, you're only allowed 3,500, including spaces and coding. Your draft is at roughly 4,133, not counting region coding which makes it longer.


? It doesn't look like it's overly long.


No it doesn't look like it should be considered too long at all, sadly it is though, copy paste it into word yourself. I didn't think mine was too long either, but it was over by much more.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:39 am
by Tinhampton
Those are good points about the character limit y'all are making there. Draft 3 has superseded Draft 2. Including [region][/region] tags, the piece was about 4,344 characters long, but I've managed to cut it down to about 4,090 characters now. (i.e. I have already removed ~30% of the excess baggage). I still need to remove at least 593 more characters to make it fit. Any more ideas for what to ditch?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:01 am
by LollerLand
A few days ago someone tried to condemn a region that has done nothing worthwhile just for being a Nazi and almost succeeded and now someone else is trying to commend a GCR just for being a GCR. What the hell is happening to SC?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:02 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Tinhampton wrote:Those are good points about the character limit y'all are making there. Draft 3 has superseded Draft 2. Including [region][/region] tags, the piece was about 4,344 characters long, but I've managed to cut it down to about 4,090 characters now. (i.e. I have already removed ~30% of the excess baggage). I still need to remove at least 593 more characters to make it fit. Any more ideas for what to ditch?

How about 4,090 characters!

LollerLand wrote:A few days ago someone tried to condemn a region that has done nothing worthwhile just for being a Nazi and almost succeeded and now someone else is trying to commend a GCR just for being a GCR. What the hell is happening to SC?

Badge hunting.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:11 am
by Pierconium
Cerian Quilor wrote:No, because the NPO's solution has involved stiffling freedom and democracy. TNP has managed to maintain democracy and retain a free and open society. In the Freedom v.s. Security argument, TNP has decided 'why not both?'

This doesn't make any sense within the context of the earlier comments about the NPO.

That said, TNP reorganizing after coups isn't anything special. If TNP were a userite region it would have disbanded multiple times. Game mechanics kept it afloat just as much as anything done by the participants of any of the so-called resistant movements or liberation attempts.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:48 am
by Drasnia
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Those are good points about the character limit y'all are making there. Draft 3 has superseded Draft 2. Including [region][/region] tags, the piece was about 4,344 characters long, but I've managed to cut it down to about 4,090 characters now. (i.e. I have already removed ~30% of the excess baggage). I still need to remove at least 593 more characters to make it fit. Any more ideas for what to ditch?

How about 4,090 characters!

LollerLand wrote:A few days ago someone tried to condemn a region that has done nothing worthwhile just for being a Nazi and almost succeeded and now someone else is trying to commend a GCR just for being a GCR. What the hell is happening to SC?

Badge hunting.

Oh BBD you're such a hoot!

But seriously, this reeks of a badge hunt.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:31 pm
by Unibot III
Tinhampton wrote:Those are good points about the character limit y'all are making there. Draft 3 has superseded Draft 2. Including [region][/region] tags, the piece was about 4,344 characters long, but I've managed to cut it down to about 4,090 characters now. (i.e. I have already removed ~30% of the excess baggage). I still need to remove at least 593 more characters to make it fit. Any more ideas for what to ditch?


In order of priority:

  • Cut the last section down, like so:

    RECALLING how the North Pacific Army has assisted other regions in some notable crises:
    April 2015 - During the occupation of Lazarus, the NPA provided material and tactical support for the Lazarene Underground State;
    Summer 2013 - The North Pacific opposed the rogue delegacy of the Dourian Embassy in Osiris and the subsequent Gatesville occupation;
    April 2013 - The NPA supplied key military aid to its allies, the Coalition of the South Pacific in its fight against the South Pacific People's Republic (SPPR);


    That gives you +100 words.

  • Remove all of the links to nations and the region. (No reason for links.)
  • Remove first clause.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:09 pm
by Tinhampton
Thanks for that, Unibot. Turns out that, just with the NPA clause simplification (and the addition of links to nations and regions, and a few more changenings here and there), it looks like I might just get under the character limit - I checked.

Any more comments y'all wish to make before this gets filed with the Security Council Commendation Board?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:13 pm
by States of Glory
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
LollerLand wrote:A few days ago someone tried to condemn a region that has done nothing worthwhile just for being a Nazi and almost succeeded and now someone else is trying to commend a GCR just for being a GCR. What the hell is happening to SC?

Badge hunting.

Still better than Badger hunting. ;)

Tinhampton wrote:Thanks for that, Unibot. Turns out that, just with the NPA clause simplification (and the addition of links to nations and regions, and a few more changenings here and there), it looks like I might just get under the character limit - I checked.

Any more comments y'all wish to make before this gets filed with the Security Council Commendation Board?

Did you really do all the research that quickly or did you just ignore Unibot's advice?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:15 pm
by ROM
Tinhampton wrote:Any more comments y'all wish to make before this gets filed with the Security Council Commendation Board?

Good luck, badge hunter.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 pm
by Unibot III
States of Glory wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Badge hunting.

Still better than Badger hunting. ;)


There needs to be a WA Card for that, man.

Image

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:23 am
by States of Glory
Unibot III wrote:
States of Glory wrote:Still better than Badger hunting. ;)


There needs to be a WA Card for that, man.

Image

You're a mean one, Unibot
You really need to stop
Including your name in acrostic,
With added Metagaming on top, Unibot
The three words that best describe you are as follows, and I quote 'Caring, resolute, lunatic'!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:43 am
by Unibot III
States of Glory wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
There needs to be a WA Card for that, man.

(Image)

You're a mean one, Unibot
You really need to stop
Including your name in acrostic,
With added Metagaming on top, Unibot
The three words that best describe you are as follows, and I quote 'Caring, resolute, lunatic'!


You need to have one helluva drawl to make Unibot/Lunatic work but thank you. :hug: