[Defeated] Liberate The Bee Land - Defensive Liberation

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

The Bee Land will be refounded and destroyed soon! Please keep a look out on the region and its actions, especially around 10:30 AM/PM Pacific Standard Time, to prevent the region from having a successful refound.

Unless you are a supporter of raiderdom gaining yet another late-updating region for themselves, thus increasing the number of late-updating regions that they already have, this shouldn't be a bad proposal - it's an offense against The Mafia and raiderdom in general.

When you vote AGAINST this proposal, you vote AGAINST raiderdom becoming weaker, AGAINST raiderdom losing its late-update regions, AGAINST raiderdom's ultimate demise. Vote FOR.

The Security Council,

Recognizing that The Bee Land was formally a region of several nations;

Noting that The Mafia is occupying the region, presumably to exploit it for military purposes;

Alarmed that Equinox's military, The Mafia, has removed all natives from The Bee Land by force;

Distraught at this absolute violation of regional sovereignty;

Realizing that the situation is dire and that The Bee Land is at the brink of regional destruction;

Hereby Liberates The Bee Land.

[Kaboomlandia]

TBL was an inactive backwater before the raid - they only have one page of RMB messages, and that's after the raid. Against.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

TBL was an inactive backwater before the raid - they only have one page of RMB messages, and that's after the raid. Against.

You can't just have raiding regions pluck out their pick of regions and just force natives out.

It's a slippery slope.

[Kitzerland]

TBL was an inactive backwater before the raid - they only have one page of RMB messages, and that's after the raid. Against.

You can't just have raiding regions pluck out their pick of regions and just force natives out.

They aren't a raiding region. They're a raiding guild. And why not? If these are their pick, we should let them, especially since you chronically fail to provide native support. These seem like a badge hunt.

[Sygian II]

There's no point in liberating. The Mafia raiding it has been the most activity that region has had in forever, if they ever had any in the first place.

Against

[Phydios]

TBL was an inactive backwater before the raid - they only have one page of RMB messages, and that's after the raid. Against.

You can't just have raiding regions pluck out their pick of regions and just force natives out.

Actually, you can. It's part of the raiding/defending game. If they can seize the region and expel the natives, then they have legal ownership of the region. It's not hard to remove yourself from the game if you have anything worth protecting. Any offsite assets of TBL won't be harmed, and they don't appear to have much onsite stuff.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

You can't just have raiding regions pluck out their pick of regions and just force natives out.

They aren't a raiding region. They're a raiding guild. And why not? If these are their pick, we should let them, especially since you chronically fail to provide native support. These seem like a badge hunt.

So we just let them take a region?

DankMemes advocates for the protection of all meme regions.

[Imperium Anglorum]

It's a slippery slope.

How about we preemptively liberate every single region with a delegate? It'll take years. But Navasse will be fine with it, so long as he gets the lion's share of the badges.

[Wallenburg]

This region hardly existed to begin with. Also,

No draft, no support. I will vote against if this winds up reaching quorum.

[Tinhampton]

This region hardly existed to begin with. Also,

No draft, no support. I will vote against if this winds up reaching quorum.

And also, The Bee Land is a lost cause. By the time this reaches vote (if it does), TBL will have been under invader control for two-and-a-half weeks, and all of the natives have already been removed.

[Mallorea and Riva]

No indication of native support.
Poorly written.
Nothing worth liberating.

Quite the failure cocktail you're mixing up over there.

[States of Glory]

It's a slippery slope.

How about we preemptively liberate every single region with a delegate? It'll take years. But Navasse will be fine with it, so long as he gets the lion's share of the badges.

Heck, why not liberate every region which doesn't have a Delegate? While we're at it, let's liberate the Feeders and the Sinkers! It might be worth liberating TRR as well. I have a feeling that the raider Delegate there intends to place a password on the region.

Of course, if I eventually do decide to liberate every region, Europe will be first on the list.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

How about we preemptively liberate every single region with a delegate? It'll take years. But Navasse will be fine with it, so long as he gets the lion's share of the badges.

Heck, why not liberate every region which doesn't have a Delegate? While we're at it, let's liberate the Feeders and the Sinkers! It might be worth liberating TRR as well. I have a feeling that the raider Delegate there intends to place a password on the region.

Of course, if I eventually do decide to liberate every region, Europe will be first on the list.

Firstly, the only reasons that I've chosen for The Bee Lands to be liberated is because:

• The Delegate of the region has an intent to destroy the region and has already passworded it.
• The Bee Lands is a meme region.
• One of DankMemes' goals is to protect all meme regions, whenever possible, but only when necessary.

Similar to how major Communist regions protect smaller ones, our meme region has decided to protect The Bee Land on the basis that "The Bee Movie" memes are quite important and that letting The Bee Land become a puppet region will ultimately benefit the raiders of The Mafia - it is always better to kill off weeds before they grow big.

[Kaboomlandia]

And also, what were you thinking when you tried to get me to pull the commendation attempt that was 2 hours away from going to vote in favour of this?

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

And also, what were you thinking when you tried to get me to pull the commendation attempt that was 2 hours away from going to vote in favour of this?

Well, we still can't let a raider region take advantage of small regions - it's still a violation of regional sovereignty. Also, attempts on establishing a raider army should still be crushed, especially since Equinox is a large region who could have dozens of nations flocking towards The Mafia. We don't want another DEN - just in case.

[Abbas Khan]

And also, what were you thinking when you tried to get me to pull the commendation attempt that was 2 hours away from going to vote in favour of this?

Well, we still can't let a raider region take advantage of small regions - it's still a violation of regional sovereignty. Also, attempts on establishing a raider army should still be crushed, especially since Equinox is a large region who could have dozens of nations flocking towards The Mafia. We don't want another DEN - just in case.

I promise you that the Mafia will not be another DEN

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

Well, we still can't let a raider region take advantage of small regions - it's still a violation of regional sovereignty. Also, attempts on establishing a raider army should still be crushed, especially since Equinox is a large region who could have dozens of nations flocking towards The Mafia. We don't want another DEN - just in case.

I promise you that the Mafia will not be another DEN

Most likely, but you cannot be certain.

Furthermore, we don't want other nations to think that they can just start up raider regions anytime and then just take over relatively small regions for the military; we need to restrict the flow of raiding and the raiding ideology.

[Sygian II]

Furthermore, we don't want other nations to think that they can just start up raider regions anytime and then just take over relatively small regions for the military; we need to restrict the flow of raiding and the raiding ideology.

Actually they can. And who are you to talk about the preserving the raider ideology when you are trying to use the SC to liberate a region that was raided?

Your memes aren't very dank anymore.

[Satya Romefeller]

Well, we still can't let a raider region take advantage of small regions - it's still a violation of regional sovereignty. Also, attempts on establishing a raider army should still be crushed, especially since Equinox is a large region who could have dozens of nations flocking towards The Mafia. We don't want another DEN - just in case.

HAI! I'm Satya. I'm The Mafia's current Godfather. I just wanna say I'm flattered. You took out time to write an entire lib proposal against one of my raids, even if it was really undeserving of the honor.

I mean seriously. I think there were like 2 natives when we raided it? Not too sure why you're pissed with us messing with the dankness because kept the memetastic native WFE mostly in tact! just spruced it up with a bit of red paint. ^_^

But really! ty for the second lib proposal against one of my raids! In fact, its the second lib proposal against a raid of mine in the span of 2 months.

All of my Mafia Soldatos are just chuffed to see this.

P.S. We're not Equinox's military. We are an autonomous raider guild that legally operates from the region of Equinox. Please do your research.

[Tinhampton]

I think there were like 2 natives when we raided it?

Yes, this region had two natives, and it'll have been Mafiosi-owned for the past three weeks when it comes to vote. I did say before that this was a lost cause. However, it is worth noting...

96 minutes ago: The Colony of Bee Baby lost WA Delegate status in The Bee Land.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

I think there were like 2 natives when we raided it?

Yes, this region had two natives, and it'll have been Mafiosi-owned for the past three weeks when it comes to vote. I did say before that this was a lost cause. However, it is worth noting...

96 minutes ago: The Colony of Bee Baby lost WA Delegate status in The Bee Land.

However, memey founderless regions should not just be able to be overthrown. Additionally, Bee Baby will probably regain Delegate status once the puppeteer of that puppet thinks that The Bee Land is out of the spotlight - which I will not let it leave until it has been fully liberated.

No region is a lost cause as long as there's a chance.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

No indication of native support.
Poorly written.
Nothing worth liberating.

Quite the failure cocktail you're mixing up over there.

Additionally:

• Argument from Ignorance [No indication of native support doesn't mean there isn't native support]
• The Bee Lands is very close to being refounded as a puppet region for The Mafia, a raiding region which we should stamp out now.
• We don't need more raiding regions in NationStates.
• Since this was time-sensitive, we can't sculpt Liberations and go through the bureaucratic process because the region would have been refounded by then.

Quite the failure cocktail? I do believe it is a prevention cocktail. If you're fine with letting a raiding region gain a puppet region and ultimately impacting NationStates in a negative way, then it would definitely seem like a failure cocktail. However, the majority of NSers don't want that. No matter the size of the community, a region should not be exploited by a larger force by force.

[Wallenburg]

Argument from Ignorance [No indication of native support doesn't mean there isn't native support]

No indication that unicorns exist doesn't mean there aren't unicorns. Do you see the problem here?

The Bee Lands is very close to being refounded as a puppet region for The Mafia, a raiding region which we should stamp out now.

And what do you think a liberation would change about that? The raiders will still do that if that is their plan. Nobody is coming to rescue a region that only had 2 natives to begin with.

We don't need more raiding regions in NationStates.

We don't need more sloppy SC resolutions either, but nobody seems to give a shit. I've seen dozens cross the floor in my short time as delegate.

Since this was time-sensitive, we can't sculpt Liberations and go through the bureaucratic process because the region would have been refounded by then.

The proposal would still require at least 108 hours to arrive at vote and pass. Chances are that would be more like 120-140 hours. In that time, the raiders could easily refound anyway. Rushing this ahead only means that we end up voting on an absolute train wreck of a resolution instead of something that is at least half decent.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

Argument from Ignorance [No indication of native support doesn't mean there isn't native support]

No indication that unicorns exist doesn't mean there aren't unicorns. Do you see the problem here?

The Bee Lands is very close to being refounded as a puppet region for The Mafia, a raiding region which we should stamp out now.

And what do you think a liberation would change about that? The raiders will still do that if that is their plan. Nobody is coming to rescue a region that only had 2 natives to begin with.

We don't need more raiding regions in NationStates.

We don't need more sloppy SC resolutions either, but nobody seems to give a shit. I've seen dozens cross the floor in my short time as delegate.

Since this was time-sensitive, we can't sculpt Liberations and go through the bureaucratic process because the region would have been refounded by then.

The proposal would still require at least 108 hours to arrive at vote and pass. Chances are that would be more like 120-140 hours. In that time, the raiders could easily refound anyway. Rushing this ahead only means that we end up voting on a steaming pile of shit instead of something that is at least half decent.

Firstly: no indication that unicorns exist doesn't prove whether they do exist or don't exist. You must have clear evidence.

Secondly, a Liberation will Liberate a region and will start the steps for completely removing invader control from The Bee Land, no matter how small it may be.

Thirdly, rushing a proposal doesn't give a steaming pile of shit as long as the proposal explains, at least in simple and understandable terms, what the situation is. Furthermore, Proposals provide publicity about a Liberation and impede from it being refounded - for a short while.

Finally, publicity is the enemy of refounding, as that lets every Delegate know what one raiding region is up to in an innocent region that needs to be liberated. Though this proposal may have not been well written in your eyes, it's still doing its purpose - to delay the refounding and hopefully Liberate The Bee Land.

[Kaboomlandia]

No indication of native support.
Poorly written.
Nothing worth liberating.

Quite the failure cocktail you're mixing up over there.

Additionally:

• Argument from Ignorance [No indication of native support doesn't mean there isn't native support]
• The Bee Lands is very close to being refounded as a puppet region for The Mafia, a raiding region which we should stamp out now.
• We don't need more raiding regions in NationStates.
• Since this was time-sensitive, we can't sculpt Liberations and go through the bureaucratic process because the region would have been refounded by then.

Quite the failure cocktail? I do believe it is a prevention cocktail. If you're fine with letting a raiding region gain a puppet region and ultimately impacting NationStates in a negative way, then it would definitely seem like a failure cocktail. However, the majority of NSers don't want that. No matter the size of the community, a region should not be exploited by a larger force by force.

I doubt anybody here would actually care if the raiders refounded a region that never had any activity to begin with. This isn't a "meme" region. TBL didn't put memes in their WFE, and they definitely didn't put them on the RMB.