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[DEFEATED] Condemn Elite Region of Global Command

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The Atlae Isles
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Founded: Feb 07, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Atlae Isles » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:06 pm

Viscondy wrote:
Romuntace wrote:
The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.


I am upset that RL Nazism exists, but I do not obsess over it. Rather, I am playing a political game in which I support the UN-like body in this fictional world holding an opinion that is against Nazism, based on the ideology that my nation holds.


Well, most of the people who vote AGAINST are only doing so because 1) the region in question is pretty small, 2) condemnations are usually reserved for R/D, weakening the condemnation.

I too believe that Nazism is horrible. But condemnations aren't what I recommend.
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Viscondy
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Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Viscondy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:36 pm

The Atlae Isles wrote:
Viscondy wrote:
I am upset that RL Nazism exists, but I do not obsess over it. Rather, I am playing a political game in which I support the UN-like body in this fictional world holding an opinion that is against Nazism, based on the ideology that my nation holds.


Well, most of the people who vote AGAINST are only doing so because 1) the region in question is pretty small, 2) condemnations are usually reserved for R/D, weakening the condemnation.

I too believe that Nazism is horrible. But condemnations aren't what I recommend.


A condemnation is 'a resolution to express shock or dismay at a nation or region.' It isn't just for r/d. Condemnations are clearly not badges of honour, at least not in the game! If we evaluate the merits of our nations expressing shock or dismay at a region because it is nazi, rather than redefining a condemnation to be a reward for being bad, then my conclusion is obvious.

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Drasnia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Drasnia » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:39 pm

The Atlae Isles wrote:
Reetweon wrote:Someone's going to lose his job.


Hahahaha...Boltor has 389 endorsements. That's not going to happen. :rofl:

They have a founder, but honestly I don't get what the big deal is with Delegates not voting with their region. Different people have different views as well as different amounts of information they have access to (do they go out of their way to get to the real story behind the resolution or just read it and take it at face value?).
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Viscondy
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Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Viscondy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:26 pm

Drasnia wrote:
The Atlae Isles wrote:
Hahahaha...Boltor has 389 endorsements. That's not going to happen. :rofl:

They have a founder, but honestly I don't get what the big deal is with Delegates not voting with their region. Different people have different views as well as different amounts of information they have access to (do they go out of their way to get to the real story behind the resolution or just read it and take it at face value?).


Democratic values dictate that the government's actions must reflect the opinions of the general public.

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Drittes Deutsches Reich
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Founded: Sep 22, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Drittes Deutsches Reich » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:51 pm

The Stalker wrote:This passes and it opens up having all the Nazi and bigoted regions condemned for just being racist.

As they should be.
The Stalker wrote:Followed by non stop repeals by people who know that's not a good reason racists

Fixed that for you.
The Stalker wrote:Do we really wanna do that? Do we really need to go around and hand out badges to all the Nazis regions of NationStates for being Nazis?

Not "to all the Nazis regions for being Nazis". To all bigoted regions for being bigoted - this attitude is hardly restricted to Nazis; it characterizes the entirety of traditional Western civilization.
The Stalker wrote:Why trivialize what it means to earn that badge by handing it out to anyone who acts racist?

Racism and Islamophobia are reprehensible and hence should be condemned; if anything, we'd be doing precisely what we should be doing.
The Stalker wrote:Anyone could go, right now found a Nazi region, get about 10 nations in it, be really racist, and they'll be just as worth of a Condemnation as ERoGC is.

Now you're getting it - all racists are to be condemned, since racism - and its parent attitude, tribalism - is most definetely worthy of condemnation. The logic behind it all is as simple as it gets.
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Moral States
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Founded: Dec 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Moral States » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:49 pm

This is too close... come on, just a few more vote for or against will change everything
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Viscondy
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Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Viscondy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:02 pm

Drittes Deutsches Reich wrote:
The Stalker wrote:This passes and it opens up having all the Nazi and bigoted regions condemned for just being racist.

As they should be.
The Stalker wrote:Followed by non stop repeals by people who know that's not a good reason racists

Fixed that for you.
The Stalker wrote:Do we really wanna do that? Do we really need to go around and hand out badges to all the Nazis regions of NationStates for being Nazis?

Not "to all the Nazis regions for being Nazis". To all bigoted regions for being bigoted - this attitude is hardly restricted to Nazis; it characterizes the entirety of traditional Western civilization.
The Stalker wrote:Why trivialize what it means to earn that badge by handing it out to anyone who acts racist?

Racism and Islamophobia are reprehensible and hence should be condemned; if anything, we'd be doing precisely what we should be doing.
The Stalker wrote:Anyone could go, right now found a Nazi region, get about 10 nations in it, be really racist, and they'll be just as worth of a Condemnation as ERoGC is.

Now you're getting it - all racists are to be condemned, since racism - and its parent attitude, tribalism - is most definetely worthy of condemnation. The logic behind it all is as simple as it gets.


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Appalachia
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Posts: 179
Founded: Dec 10, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Appalachia » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:29 pm

Romuntace wrote:Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.


There isn't such a thing as "changing a nazis mind through discussion." They are a lost cause. Anything that discourages their presence in this game, such as using condemnations to brand their regions as a target for Antifa groups to destroy, is a positive step.
Last edited by Appalachia on Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Laurentian Federation
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Founded: Aug 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Laurentian Federation » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:43 pm

Are these "Nazis" actually believe in Nazism or are they just joking.

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Romuntace
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Posts: 6
Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Romuntace » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:21 pm

Viscondy wrote:
Romuntace wrote:
The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.


I am upset that RL Nazism exists, but I do not obsess over it. Rather, I am playing a political game in which I support the UN-like body in this fictional world holding an opinion that is against Nazism, based on the ideology that my nation holds.


Well by that logic I would still vote against condemning them because my nation values freedom of speech and judges people on their actions rather than views. ERoGC haven't done anything that impressive from the sounds of it. Sleeper missions against 2 regions? One where their own nations are apparently voting against because "the attention is helping to grow them", and a "peaceful" region that's tagged itself as "fascist". Other than that and "[intercepting] a native refound attempt in The Union" (which really needs elaboration imo), every part of the condemnation was about something they said, or a complaint about their ideology. It's not enough to condemn them over.

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Romuntace
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Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Romuntace » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:24 pm

Appalachia wrote:
Romuntace wrote:Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.


There isn't such a thing as "changing a nazis mind through discussion." They are a lost cause. Anything that discourages their presence in this game, such as using condemnations to brand their regions as a target for Antifa groups to destroy, is a positive step.


How exactly does giving them a load of publicity discourage them?

Also, they are people - of course it's possible to change their minds through discussion. You might get a few that are completely stubborn but that won't apply to everyone.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:25 pm

For: 8,550 — Against: 8,556

Quite the flair for the dramatic, this SC is.

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Flanderlion
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Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:38 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
For: 8,550 — Against: 8,556

Quite the flair for the dramatic, this SC is.

For: 8,555 — Against: 8,558
now. I forgot to vote...
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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:39 pm

It's now 8,558-8,556 against. It's like (insert preferred tight SC vote) all over again...
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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Tinhampton wrote:It's now 8,558-8,556 against. It's like (insert preferred tight SC vote) all over again...

You're telling me.
For 8,558 8,558 Against
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LollerLand
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Founded: May 15, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby LollerLand » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:48 pm

This is one of the most thrilling SC votes I have seen in a long time..
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The United Territories of Providence
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Founded: May 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Territories of Providence » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:22 pm

What Happens if at 17:00 GMT....the vote is tied 8,750 to 8,750 exactly? Is the resolution passed or rejected, or do we have to call in Max Barry to break a tie vote?
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Corrham
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Founded: Feb 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Corrham » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:27 pm

I'm pretty new to this game and I find this vote very strangely exciting
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Canton Empire
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Founded: Mar 24, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Canton Empire » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:28 pm

The United Territories of Providence wrote:What Happens if at 17:00 GMT....the vote is tied 8,750 to 8,750 exactly? Is the resolution passed or rejected, or do we have to call in Max Barry to break a tie vote?

It fails.
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Moral States
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Founded: Dec 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Moral States » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:36 pm

Canton Empire wrote:
The United Territories of Providence wrote:What Happens if at 17:00 GMT....the vote is tied 8,750 to 8,750 exactly? Is the resolution passed or rejected, or do we have to call in Max Barry to break a tie vote?

It fails.


I have to say even if it passes, there is a good chance a repeal will take place.
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Todd McCloud
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:58 pm

The Atlae Isles wrote:AAAA!

Todd voted FOR! What a disappointment.

I have been asked by the current delegate to vote on the resolution. The East Pacific tends to vote on majority of World Assembly endorsements, of which they currently stand at 77% for. I voted on the same day I was asked to vote. I have no real desire to see this pass or fail. I do have a desire to ensure the incoming delegate sees his or her policies come to fruition.
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United City States of Oceania
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Founded: Jan 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United City States of Oceania » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Are you kidding me? The vote is now at 8607 for, 8632 against. No. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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What is this? Captain America: Civil War?


No that had attractive people

This is the realistic version of that movie, then.


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Goto Mototsugu
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Founded: Jan 10, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Goto Mototsugu » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:17 pm

I want one of the major delegates to just completely mess with the vote by constantly switching back and forth.

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United City States of Oceania
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Founded: Jan 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United City States of Oceania » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:21 pm

Goto Mototsugu wrote:I want one of the major delegates to just completely mess with the vote by constantly switching back and forth.
That would be irritating.
Last edited by United City States of Oceania on Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Main Nation Ministry wrote:
Dentali wrote:
What is this? Captain America: Civil War?


No that had attractive people

This is the realistic version of that movie, then.


Uttland wrote:Why are the Reeds speaking Baguette? Don’t they know that in America we don’t tolerate Muslim languages like Baguette?


Liriena wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Would you give your kid to the Donald? Why or why not?

I wouldn't give him a f**king cockroach to look after. He'd probably nominate it for SCOTUS.

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United City States of Oceania
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Founded: Jan 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United City States of Oceania » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:23 pm

OMG. IT'S NOW JUST A DIFFERENCE OF 4, WITH NO LEADING.
Main Nation Ministry wrote:
Dentali wrote:
What is this? Captain America: Civil War?


No that had attractive people

This is the realistic version of that movie, then.


Uttland wrote:Why are the Reeds speaking Baguette? Don’t they know that in America we don’t tolerate Muslim languages like Baguette?


Liriena wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Would you give your kid to the Donald? Why or why not?

I wouldn't give him a f**king cockroach to look after. He'd probably nominate it for SCOTUS.

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