[DEFEATED] Condemn Elite Region of Global Command

[LollerLand]

Why are against voters are so concerned with giving ERGC credibility? The proposal is on the table, they already have a large amount of exposure, and this argument is going to bring them even more attention, no matter the result. Why not use this vote to take a stand against bigotry? Our nation certainly doesn't support Nazism, Islamophobia, or anything else that the ERGC stands for, so we're voting FOR the condemnation.

We stand against Nazism and bigotry too. But if this proposal passes ERoGC's name will be marked in the history of SC without doing anything relevant in NS other than being racist. Do we really want to give that type of recognition and exposure so easily to the Nazis?

[Cerian Quilor]

Condemnations are shiny badges that should be rewarded to players and groups worthy of respect, but acknowledging in-game 'evil' they are. Condemn TBH, or Condemn TBR, etc, makes sense.

Howerver, since all condemnations are are shiny badges of recognition of actual accomplishment - and accomplishment worth recognizing - no Nazi region should be condemned, because condemnations are meaningless apart from being shiny badges.

[Appalachia]

It's like no one learned from NS history... No one remember doing this with Nazi Europe? It's a damn Pandora's box. This passes and it opens up having all the Nazi and bigoted regions condemned for just being racist. Followed by non stop repeals by people who know that's not a good reason, and we end up with non stop Nazi SC proposals, all with little actual game content.

Do we really wanna do that? Do we really need to go around and hand out badges to all the Nazis regions of NationStates for being Nazis?

Why trivialize what it means to earn that badge by handing it out to anyone who acts racist?

Anyone could go, right now found a Nazi region, get about 10 nations in it, be really racist, and they'll be just as worth of a Condemnation as ERoGC is.

Hmmm, it's almost as if NationStates being 100% tolerant of the presence of nazis distracts from the gameplay.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Condemnations are shiny badges that should be rewarded to players and groups worthy of respect, but acknowledging in-game 'evil' they are. Condemn TBH, or Condemn TBR, etc, makes sense.

Howerver, since all condemnations are are shiny badges of recognition of actual accomplishment - and accomplishment worth recognizing - no Nazi region should be condemned, because condemnations are meaningless apart from being shiny badges.

I don't think I've read a more succinct and accurate description of how Condemnations should be awarded.

Edit: and the vote is back to neck and neck with TKI voting against.

[Flanderlion]

Let me off this wild ride.

[Canton Empire]

Why are against voters are so concerned with giving ERGC credibility? The proposal is on the table, they already have a large amount of exposure, and this argument is going to bring them even more attention, no matter the result. Why not use this vote to take a stand against bigotry? Our nation certainly doesn't support Nazism, Islamophobia, or anything else that the ERGC stands for, so we're voting FOR the condemnation.

We stand against Nazism and bigotry too. But if this proposal passes ERoGC's name will be marked in the history of SC without doing anything relevant in NS other than being racist. Do we really want to give that type of recognition and exposure so easily to the Nazis?

Did CAIN not do the exact same thing and give all of nazism attention?

[LollerLand]

We stand against Nazism and bigotry too. But if this proposal passes ERoGC's name will be marked in the history of SC without doing anything relevant in NS other than being racist. Do we really want to give that type of recognition and exposure so easily to the Nazis?

Did CAIN not do the exact same thing and give all of nazism attention?

CAIN hasn't tried to condemn regions that don't deserve it.

[Qualvista]

The Royal World Estate would be in favour of voting for this resolution in a purely IC context. However, given the practical applications of the Security Council and condemnations from a "gameplay" perspective, the Royal World Estate acknowledges that condemnations are often viewed as a badge of honour by the condemned. Therefore, Qualvista respectfully abstains on this resolution.

[Far Rivia Hilolak]

PASS THIS BILL

[Piper Winter]

I don't see how this will drastically add 'exposure to Nazism'.

Maybe some time ago, sure.

Now it's there, it exists. It can't be any more obvious that it exists (if not exists again, though I'd argue it was always there anyway). An effort to ignore is at best, a frail tactic, because it hardly suddenly makes them go away.

[Zeganas]

As a member of the 10000 islands, about 75% of nations in the region actually voted FOR the resolution and despite this, our delegate had voted against it.

[Maljaratas]

It's back to a >100 margin.
When will it end!?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

It's back to a >100 margin.
When will it end!?

17:00 GMT tomorrow.

[Canton Empire]

This is a fun vote

[Canton Empire]

Annnnnd we have a tie again

[Maljaratas]

It's back to a >100 margin.
When will it end!?

17:00 GMT tomorrow.

I knew that

Look, we have an 18 vote margin!
How exciting.

[Romuntace]

ERoGC gained 10 new members since we started voting. In the previous 5 days they gained none.

Nazi Europa (ERoGC's first listed allies) gained 45 members in 2 days, out of 108 members in the week. That's almost double what they would have got if the last 5 days had stayed consistent.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it seems likely that this is because of all the publicity we're giving them by voting in the first place. We're making it easier for them to congregate. That's fine if they're just roleplaying, but people like that do exist in real life, and I expect at least some of them probably take it seriously. Whether they'd take a condemnation seriously or not is irrelevant.

Well, we have to do the vote now. You can criticise the fact that we are voting on this resolution, but that's not a criticism of the resolution's passage, now that it is at vote. We can get emotional over how nazis exist, but I would like this to be a discussion about the game, please.

Additionally, let me reiterate this: if people go to these regions because they want to role-play as the bad guys, then they're not nazis, are they? Whilst we may give them publicity by voting on their condemnation, the passage/failure of the resolution will have no effect on the number of actual nazis going into those regions, so why not support the resolution that's clearly correct by any IC measure?

The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.

[Caracasus]

Well, we have to do the vote now. You can criticise the fact that we are voting on this resolution, but that's not a criticism of the resolution's passage, now that it is at vote. We can get emotional over how nazis exist, but I would like this to be a discussion about the game, please.

Additionally, let me reiterate this: if people go to these regions because they want to role-play as the bad guys, then they're not nazis, are they? Whilst we may give them publicity by voting on their condemnation, the passage/failure of the resolution will have no effect on the number of actual nazis going into those regions, so why not support the resolution that's clearly correct by any IC measure?

The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.

I can see (sort of) what you are getting at, but have you looked at that particular region? Good luck changing the mind of someone who supports that kind of crap through discussion on a website...

[Romuntace]

The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.

I can see (sort of) what you are getting at, but have you looked at that particular region? Good luck changing the mind of someone who supports that kind of crap through discussion on a website...

If they're capable of forming an opinion in the first place, I'm sure they're capable of forming a different opinion when given new information.

[The Atlae Isles]

I don't see how this will drastically add 'exposure to Nazism'.

Maybe some time ago, sure.

Now it's there, it exists. It can't be any more obvious that it exists (if not exists again, though I'd argue it was always there anyway). An effort to ignore is at best, a frail tactic, because it hardly suddenly makes them go away.

Condemnations are for raiders. And yes, Nazism exists. That's why we have CAIN and Antifas.

But the point that we're talking about is that it's not a good resolution. Condemning a small region isn't a very good idea. And while it's well intentioned, SC condemnations are not for Nazi regions.

[Sardennoi]

I don't see how this will drastically add 'exposure to Nazism'.

Maybe some time ago, sure.

Now it's there, it exists. It can't be any more obvious that it exists (if not exists again, though I'd argue it was always there anyway). An effort to ignore is at best, a frail tactic, because it hardly suddenly makes them go away.

Condemnations are for raiders. And yes, Nazism exists. That's why we have CAIN and Antifas.

But the point that we're talking about is that it's not a good resolution. Condemning a small region isn't a very good idea. And while it's well intentioned, SC condemnations are not for Nazi regions.

Passing this resolution only waters down all future SC resolutions, as we as a body would have to condemn any Nazi regions. The amount of condemnations going out would drastically increase which in turns weakens if they actually mean anything. Having a condemnation badge would mean nothing as suddenly every region even remotely considered "bad" would have one.
It appears to me that no one is considering the future consequences this resolution will have on the SC, and all of those consequences are negative.

[Reetweon]

As a member of the 10000 islands, about 75% of nations in the region actually voted FOR the resolution and despite this, our delegate had voted against it.

Someone's going to lose his job.

[Viscondy]

Well, we have to do the vote now. You can criticise the fact that we are voting on this resolution, but that's not a criticism of the resolution's passage, now that it is at vote. We can get emotional over how nazis exist, but I would like this to be a discussion about the game, please.

Additionally, let me reiterate this: if people go to these regions because they want to role-play as the bad guys, then they're not nazis, are they? Whilst we may give them publicity by voting on their condemnation, the passage/failure of the resolution will have no effect on the number of actual nazis going into those regions, so why not support the resolution that's clearly correct by any IC measure?

The point I was trying to make was that someone's opinion isn't a good reason to condemn them - either now or in future. A lot of people who are voting FOR seem to be voting based on the idea that Nazi = Bad. Voting to condemn may feel like it's "taking a stand against bigotry" but in reality it's voting to continue to promote them, whilst at the same time setting an example that all you need to do to get a condemnation is to have an unpopular political position.

Nazis already know they're unpopular, they're not going to change their minds if you tell them that. Also since people are moving out of other regions to join ERoGC due to the publicity they're suddenly getting, Anti-Nazis are less likely to get the chance to change any Nazis mind through discussion.

I am upset that RL Nazism exists, but I do not obsess over it. Rather, I am playing a political game in which I support the UN-like body in this fictional world holding an opinion that is against Nazism, based on the ideology that my nation holds.

[The Atlae Isles]

AAAA!

Todd voted FOR! What a disappointment.

[The Atlae Isles]

As a member of the 10000 islands, about 75% of nations in the region actually voted FOR the resolution and despite this, our delegate had voted against it.

Someone's going to lose his job.

Hahahaha...Boltor has 389 endorsements. That's not going to happen.