[DEFEATED] Liberate Antalia

[Equille]

I seem to be having a difficult time deciding on my point of view in this debate. Would anyone be so kind as to maybe clarify just what the pros and cons are to liberating Antalia? It would be much appreciated and allow for a more educated vote on many nations parts.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I seem to be having a difficult time deciding on my point of view in this debate. Would anyone be so kind as to maybe clarify just what the pros and cons are to liberating Antalia? It would be much appreciated and allow for a more educated vote on many nations parts.

Everything you need to know is in the thread.

[Imperium Anglorum]

I received this telegram seven hours ago. Not only is it some of the most boneheadedly stupid text I've read since Bitely sent out a telegram that was literally incoherent railing on about the exact same thing, it is also meant for further consumption, asking people to spam their own region-mates with telegram messages.

Lets recap: There is an active founder which supports what has happened to their region. The 'natives' don't exist. This telegram (seriously, there has never been a more hysterical, overbolded and overcapitalised telegram sent since time immemorial) was sent. This has left the pages of politics and has entered the pages of the absurd. I vote against.

Fight back against the CORRUPT MAJOR REGIONS of NationStates!

The Major CORRUPT Regions of NationStates are planning to vote AGAINST on the current Security Council proposal, Liberate Antalia!

Disregarding the native majority, these huge regions and their corrupt WA Delegates are trying to allow for the Imperialist Battalions to take over Antalia!

They WILL attempt to telegram you to vote AGAINST!

BUT, to free the natives from the tyranny enforced by their invaders, you need to vote FOR!

VOTE FOR and TELEGRAM YOUR ENTIRE REGION to VOTE FOR LIBERATE ANTALIA BY USING

tag: [YOUR REGION'S NAME]

IN THE "TO" BOX SO THAT WE CAN FIGHT AGAINST THE CORRUPT MAJOR REGIONS IN NATIONSTATES!!!

VOTE FOR LIBERATE ANTALIA HERE!!! https://www.nationstates.net/page=sc

[Kaboomlandia]

I received this telegram seven hours ago. Not only is it some of the most boneheadedly stupid text I've read since Bitely sent out a telegram that was literally incoherent railing on about the exact same thing, it is also meant for further consumption, asking people to spam their own region-mates with telegram messages.

Lets recap: There is an active founder which supports what has happened to their region. The 'natives' don't exist. This telegram (seriously, there has never been a more hysterical, overbolded and overcapitalised telegram sent since time immemorial) was sent. This has left the pages of politics and has entered the pages of the absurd. I vote against.

Fight back against the CORRUPT MAJOR REGIONS of NationStates!

The Major CORRUPT Regions of NationStates are planning to vote AGAINST on the current Security Council proposal, Liberate Antalia!

Disregarding the native majority, these huge regions and their corrupt WA Delegates are trying to allow for the Imperialist Battalions to take over Antalia!

They WILL attempt to telegram you to vote AGAINST!

BUT, to free the natives from the tyranny enforced by their invaders, you need to vote FOR!

VOTE FOR and TELEGRAM YOUR ENTIRE REGION to VOTE FOR LIBERATE ANTALIA BY USING

tag: [YOUR REGION'S NAME]

IN THE "TO" BOX SO THAT WE CAN FIGHT AGAINST THE CORRUPT MAJOR REGIONS IN NATIONSTATES!!!

VOTE FOR LIBERATE ANTALIA HERE!!! https://www.nationstates.net/page=sc

What happened to Europe's SC neutrality?

[Imperium Anglorum]

What happened to Europe's SC neutrality?

That telegram and recommended response per a ratified Accord which was not repealed.

[Kaboomlandia]

What happened to Europe's SC neutrality?

That telegram and recommended response per a ratified Accord which did not repeal.

Right, forgot you guys still had that Accord on the books.

[Neo Libertalius]

Were there really any "major" regions that were explicitly planning to vote against this before the whole campaign started, anyway?

[Kaboomlandia]

Were there really any "major" regions that were explicitly planning to vote against this before the whole campaign started, anyway?

I knew about this one beforehand, was shocked to see it made quorum, and then raised the discussion both within my own region and in WALL. I did not know about the TG and was planning to vote against anyhow.

[Neo Libertalius]

Ah ok.

Because "The Major CORRUPT Regions of NationStates" makes it sound like there's some sort of evil secret society that just conspires to vote against every liberation proposal based on them being liberation proposals.

(I'm relatively new here so that may very well be a thing, but you get my point)

[Trinnien]

I keep an eye on proposals that are approaching quorum and post for citizens to vote on Europeia's offsite forums. In this case, the citizen vote was unanimously and overwhelmingly Against. As such, when it went live, I happily smacked it down. I'm just sad I didn't beat Altmoras to the punch for first vote cast.

-Trinnien, Happy Go Lucky Delegate of Europeia.

Drop me a line, we'll have tea.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

Reasons for Liberation

The current Delegate of Antalia [Coalition of the Bloodbath] is an invader on the basis that he completely ignores the Imperialist Battalions' movements in the region, retains the positions of the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions, allows for the Imperialist Battalions to poll the populace with their own polls, and allows for the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions to continue residing in the region.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Reasons for Liberation

The current Delegate of Antalia [Coalition of the Bloodbath] is an invader on the basis that he completely ignores the Imperialist Battalions' movements in the region, retains the positions of the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions, allows for the Imperialist Battalions to poll the populace with their own polls, and allows for the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions to continue residing in the region.

Nope, still not a reason. Do not pass "GO", do not collect £200.

[Neo Libertalius]

The raiders don't seem to be doing anything, though. It's also worth mentioning that out of about 16 region members, about 12 of them are raiders. One moved in there to ask a question, one was made less than a day ago, and another wasn't even there for a week. Then there's one that originally wrote the proposal but disappeared from the thread and had a mutual endorsement with

If anything, the only particularly odd and "authoritarian" messages on the RMB that I've seen are raiders suppressing each other, in an attempt to be funny or something. Most of them seem fine with it, and with the exception of the last native I mentioned, the others moved there after the occupation happened.

I don't see the point in liberating a small region that's 99% raider.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

The raiders don't seem to be doing anything, though. It's also worth mentioning that out of about 16 region members, about 12 of them are raiders. One moved in there to ask a question, one was made less than a day ago, and another wasn't even there for a week. Then there's one that originally wrote the proposal but disappeared from the thread and had a mutual endorsement with

If anything, the only particularly odd and "authoritarian" messages on the RMB that I've seen are raiders suppressing each other, in an attempt to be funny or something. Most of them seem fine with it, and with the exception of the last native I mentioned, the others moved there after the occupation happened.

I don't see the point in liberating a small region that's 99% raider.

Well, it's time to save the region from the raiders. We don't want to go down the slippery slope of "if a region has _% of foreign raiders, than it shouldn't be liberated," as that will be detrimental to all regions.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

The raiders don't seem to be doing anything, though. It's also worth mentioning that out of about 16 region members, about 12 of them are raiders. One moved in there to ask a question, one was made less than a day ago, and another wasn't even there for a week. Then there's one that originally wrote the proposal but disappeared from the thread and had a mutual endorsement with

If anything, the only particularly odd and "authoritarian" messages on the RMB that I've seen are raiders suppressing each other, in an attempt to be funny or something. Most of them seem fine with it, and with the exception of the last native I mentioned, the others moved there after the occupation happened.

I don't see the point in liberating a small region that's 99% raider.

Well, it's time to save the region from the raiders. We don't want to go down the slippery slope of "if a region has _% of foreign raiders, than it shouldn't be liberated," as that will be detrimental to all regions.

Let the Founder save the region. After all it is his region. No slippery slope here.

[Appalachia]

Well, it's time to save the region from the raiders. We don't want to go down the slippery slope of "if a region has _% of foreign raiders, than it shouldn't be liberated," as that will be detrimental to all regions.

There is an active founder who doesn't WANT to save the region. We shouldn't get to tell founders what to do or not do within their own regions, frankly that is absurd.

[The Stalker]

Oh man Aimdar-Goomdar, what are you even hoping to accomplish here? I just got your campaign telegram and it's a little over the top to say the least. All the regions of the world are corrupt because they disagree with your poor logic? If that's your attitude you'll never pass any resolution.

[The Allied Human Territories]

The Delegation of the Federal Republic of The Allied Human Territories has made a final decision: As WA Delegate of the Mustang Confederation, we vote against the liberation of Antalia, as its people have shown little to know resistance to the current administration. Furthermore, it is our respectfully submitted opinion that the Security Council should not interfere unless directly requested to do so by a majority of "non-raider" member nations. This decision is final.

The Delegation also wishes to speak directly to the nation of Aimdar-Goomdar, and state that it is the stance of the Confederation that the founder of a region has zero right or prerogative to "liberate" another region that seems to show very little interest in being "liberated."

[Jolly Ole Saint Nick]

Ho, ho! Since the author has blocked my telegram responses to his mass tg campaign, I must reply here:

Ho, ho, no! Per the NS Faq:

"Who's in charge of a region?
The person who created a region is known as its Founder.......Founders can administer their region as they see fit"

The SC has no right to override the Founder here.

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

The current Delegate of Antalia [Coalition of the Bloodbath] is an invader on the basis that he completely ignores the Imperialist Battalions' movements in the region, retains the positions of the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions, allows for the Imperialist Battalions to poll the populace with their own polls, and allows for the invaders from the Imperialist Battalions to continue residing in the region.[/align]

Just because the native delegate is inactive doesn't mean that he is a practically a raider. Coalition of the Bloodbath isn't doing anything detrimental to his region, and so are the raider officers. They are doing nothing at all. Maybe the native delegate just doesn't know to dismiss the raider officers.

I'm just going to quote you here:

I truly believe this is not very important

Then why did you waste your time with a TG campaign to get this to quorum? Why did you waste our time voting on this? Why are you exaggerating the negative effects of this 'raid'?

[Neo Libertalius]

I'm just going to quote you here:

I truly believe this is not very important

Then why did you waste your time with a TG campaign to get this to quorum? Why did you waste our time voting on this? Why are you exaggerating the negative effects of this 'raid'?

Good catch. I forgot they said that.

Same post, they also said:

I would strongly recommend, however, to make sure there is actually native approval!

But we haven't gotten that. The closest thing, again, is a nation that arrived after the occupation, and even after the proposal was written. We can't even be sure that they're not a puppet of some sort, either.

So, this is just wasting time.

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

I'm just going to quote you here:

Then why did you waste your time with a TG campaign to get this to quorum? Why did you waste our time voting on this? Why are you exaggerating the negative effects of this 'raid'?

Good catch. I forgot they said that.

Same post, they also said:

I would strongly recommend, however, to make sure there is actually native approval!

But we haven't gotten that. The closest thing, again, is a nation that arrived after the occupation, and even after the proposal was written. We can't even be sure that they're not a puppet of some sort, either.

So, this is just wasting time.

Nope; there is more native approval of the Liberation. I will be publishing it shortly.

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

Nope; there is more native approval of the Liberation. I will be publishing it shortly.

Nope. Any attempt by you to give the impression of native support will be taken with a grain of salt.

As you know, I sent all the natives of Antalia a telegram explaining how to use the NS forums. If they have any opinions on this matter, they are free to voice their concerns here in this thread. You, Aimdar-Goomdar, are not a native of Antalia, and I will not believe there is any native support until an actual native of Antalia posts on this thread with their own Antalia account. You can say, "Oh a native of Antalia telegrammed me and they said..." all you want, but no one here will believe you.

I'm going to repost my questions since you refuse to respond. Are you incapable of taking criticism or handling questions?

I'm just going to quote you here:

I truly believe this is not very important

Then why did you waste your time with a TG campaign to get this to quorum? Why did you waste our time voting on this? Why are you exaggerating the negative effects of this 'raid'?

Aimdar-Goomdar, you also have not addressed my point about Gothistan. Are you puppet wanking to feign support for this proposal? Are you puppet spamming Antalia to feign opposition to the raiders, who no longer have control of the region?

I am anticipating that you will dodge the question.

[Ivenoo3]

Allow me to straighten this out:

1. The owner of the region frankly doesn't care, and might even be aiding the remaining raiders
2. The inhabitants barely posted to the RMB in the months following, but we still classify this as a growing and active region
3. None of the original inhabitants chose to leave the region, and haven't made any move to liberate themselves (save from a few trolling posts on the RMB)
4. Besides claiming the delegacy, the raiders have done very little in the sense of cultural vandalism

It seems to me that this was a piece of legislation, simply for legislation's sake, the very most inefficient waste of computer memory the combined brilliance of the NS community is capable of creating. Hardly deserves being archived.

[United Scheunemann Socialist Republic]

Date: 14/01/2017
To: WA Security Council
From: Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann; United Scheunemann Socialist Republic (USSR)
Subject: Resolution: Liberate Antalia

I first would like to thank the WA for admitting me in and would like to take this time to state that we should have more for this resolution and I condemn any country or reigon who has voted against this resolution. We should be in more fear that the country will have a password put onto its borders and will be isolated from the rest of the world. We should not and will not take a lie down approach to diplomacy. We should show force and power under pressure and in times of trouble. This may sound crazy from someone so new to this and just becoming active on the fourms here, but I want to show the power of diplomacy and what my country will respond to acts of aggression and a whimpering and weak security council won't even play ball and keep willful acts of aggression to a mininium. For all we know they could but up a password and then declare their nuclear aresenal. We need to show force to protect our own and not allow them to be taken hostage like this.

I will waiting for the change or will be forced towards more drastic measures.

Signed,
Overlord President Joshua Scheunemann