[DEFEATED] Condemn The CAIN

[Brunhizzle]

"So, as head of CAIN, In theory you can call every region in the world a 'Nazi Collaborator' beacuse the vaguely did something that vaguely suports nazism without context."

In theory and in practice, I can do nothing of the sort. Weird of you to quote the treaty without actually reading it.

In order for a region to be designated as a Nazi Collaborator without possessing an embassy with a Nazi Region, they must receive a 2/3rds majority vote of all signatories. This has never happened before but if it were to it would be because the region in question shared core values with Nation Socialism. Core values like the following:

antisemitism, pseudo-scientific racism, racial hygiene, slaughter for living space, genocide, eugenics, persecution of LGBT, etc.

As for Timhampton, the section you quoted is actually in regards to amendments to the text of the treaty. If the a majority of the Coalition's signatories want to amend the text then they can and those that don't want to continue with CAIN after the amendment in question don't have to.

[-Mr Money-]

Nazism: The ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state, as well as other far-right groups. In the context of NationStates, it is an ideology that glorifies National Socialism or Nazi Germany and/or actively practices Nazi beliefs such as antisemitism, pseudo-scientific racism, racial hygiene, slaughter for living space, genocide, eugenics, persecution of LGBT, etc.

I'm in danger of looking like an idiot here, It's not just National Socialists that believed in anti-Semitism or persecution of LGBT though, the Stalinist regime of the USSR advocated such measures through the gulags etc. You see, you can't just lump all these things into a single category and call them Nazi beliefs, that's what I have a problem with. Also, there were National Socialists in Nazi Germany that tried to protect Jews. I'm not trying to defend National Socialism, I hate the ideology, but I'm just putting this out there.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"So, as head of CAIN, In theory you can call every region in the world a 'Nazi Collaborator' beacuse the vaguely did something that vaguely suports nazism without context."

In theory and in practice, I can do nothing of the sort. Weird of you to quote the treaty without actually reading it.

In order for a region to be designated as a Nazi Collaborator without possessing an embassy with a Nazi Region, they must receive a 2/3rds majority vote of all signatories. This has never happened before but if it were to it would be because the region in question shared core values with Nation Socialism. Core values like the following:

antisemitism, pseudo-scientific racism, racial hygiene, slaughter for living space, genocide, eugenics, persecution of LGBT, etc.

As for Timhampton, the section you quoted is actually in regards to amendments to the text of the treaty. If the a majority of the Coalition's signatories want to amend the text then they can and those that don't want to continue with CAIN after the amendment in question don't have to.

"If a Christian region persecutes LGBT by not letting them marry, or jailing them but they maintain a high standard of human rights in jail cells are they a Nazi Collaborator?"

[The Wolverine Isles]

Nazism: The ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state, as well as other far-right groups. In the context of NationStates, it is an ideology that glorifies National Socialism or Nazi Germany and/or actively practices Nazi beliefs such as antisemitism, pseudo-scientific racism, racial hygiene, slaughter for living space, genocide, eugenics, persecution of LGBT, etc.

I'm in danger of looking like an idiot here, It's not just National Socialists that believed in anti-Semitism or persecution of LGBT though, the Stalinist regime of the USSR advocated such measures through the gulags etc. You see, you can't just lump all these things into a single category and call them Nazi beliefs, that's what I have a problem with. Also, there were National Socialists in Nazi Germany that tried to protect Jews. I'm not trying to defend National Socialism, I hate the ideology, but I'm just putting this out there.

I totally agree. There are loads of other political types that have similar racist and anti-semitic views. That doesn't mean that they should all be put in a single category. That's just being ignorant.

[-Mr Money-]

I'm in danger of looking like an idiot here, It's not just National Socialists that believed in anti-Semitism or persecution of LGBT though, the Stalinist regime of the USSR advocated such measures through the gulags etc. You see, you can't just lump all these things into a single category and call them Nazi beliefs, that's what I have a problem with. Also, there were National Socialists in Nazi Germany that tried to protect Jews. I'm not trying to defend National Socialism, I hate the ideology, but I'm just putting this out there.

I totally agree. There are loads of other political types that have similar racist and anti-semitic views. That doesn't mean that they should all be put in a single category. That's just being ignorant.

Thank you! Someone agrees with me!

[Brunhizzle]

"If a Christian region persecutes LGBT by not letting them marry, or jailing them but they maintain a high standard of human rights in jail cells are they a Nazi Collaborator?"

The Nazi persecution of of the LGBT community was far, far greater than jail time in a humane environment. This isn't about that. If, however, a Christian Region advocates for the genocide of the LGBT community, psuedo-scientific racism, and for eugenics then their inclusion on the list might just happen.

[Bakhton]

The Supreme Court of Bakhton has voted 6-5 in favor of this resolution, as we see the CAIN as increasing reactionary and divisive world politics thus hindering further world peace.

Many in the nation including leading politicians strongly disagree.

[Proctopeo]

I'm voting For this resolution. Even though its chances of going through are very slight, I don't really trust the CAIN.

[-Mr Money-]

"If a Christian region persecutes LGBT by not letting them marry, or jailing them but they maintain a high standard of human rights in jail cells are they a Nazi Collaborator?"

The Nazi persecution of of the LGBT community was far, far greater than jail time in a humane environment. This isn't about that. If, however, a Christian Region advocates for the genocide of the LGBT community, psuedo-scientific racism, and for eugenics then their inclusion on the list might just happen.

*Most* National Socialist are against Christianity or Religion in general.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"If a Christian region persecutes LGBT by not letting them marry, or jailing them but they maintain a high standard of human rights in jail cells are they a Nazi Collaborator?"

The Nazi persecution of of the LGBT community was far, far greater than jail time in a humane environment. This isn't about that. If, however, a Christian Region advocates for the genocide of the LGBT community, psuedo-scientific racism, and for eugenics then their inclusion on the list might just happen.

"That was dodging the question, if a Christian region does jail LGBT people, is that or is that not LGBT persecution?"

[-Mr Money-]

The Nazi persecution of of the LGBT community was far, far greater than jail time in a humane environment. This isn't about that. If, however, a Christian Region advocates for the genocide of the LGBT community, psuedo-scientific racism, and for eugenics then their inclusion on the list might just happen.

"That was dodging the question, if a Christian region does jail LGBT people, is that or is that not LGBT persecution?"

Or Nazi collaboration?

[Brunhizzle]

"That was dodging the question, if a Christian region does jail LGBT people, is that or is that not LGBT persecution?"

Well, yes, by the very definition it's persecution but it's not at all what CAIN is looking to oppose.

[-Mr Money-]

"That was dodging the question, if a Christian region does jail LGBT people, is that or is that not LGBT persecution?"

Well, yes, by the very definition it's persecution but it's not at all what CAIN is looking to oppose.

What do you oppose then? People having different opinions to yourself?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"That was dodging the question, if a Christian region does jail LGBT people, is that or is that not LGBT persecution?"

Well, yes, by the very definition it's persecution but it's not at all what CAIN is looking to oppose.

"Then, your own constitution can and will ask you to raid this region. For being a Nazi Collaborator. Proves my point that your definition of ' Nazi Collaborator' is a poor one."

[Brunhizzle]

Well, yes, by the very definition it's persecution but it's not at all what CAIN is looking to oppose.

What do you oppose then? People having different opinions to yourself?

I'd think that the name makes things pretty clear. "Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism" is a rather straight forward name that none of our actions have been counter to.

"Then, your own construction can and will ask you to raid this region. For being a Nazi Collaborator. Proves my point that your definition of ' Nazi Collaborator' is a poor one."

It won't, at all, and you have no evidence to support your claim. CAIN has not, and will not, raid a region simply for believing the homosexuality is wrong. CAIN might, however, oppose a region that advocates for the same sort of persecution of the LGBT community that Nazi Germany did.

[Neo Danzig]

The guys not a Nazi! He says himself he is a Classical Liberal, read his signature. What is your definition of Nazi, pray tell?

he has 23million people in country, he writes very well resolutions, he has suspicious name, he clearly is someones puppet.
(Neo Danzig)

As a matter of fact, this is indeed a puppet nation. My main nation is Sovereign Slavic States, but I've decided to use this nation as my main forum nation. Admittedly, Sovereign Slavic States is somewhat new as well and this is actually the first WA resolution I've ever written, but I'm in Model UN and MUN resolution are pretty similar. Also, it wouldn't make any sense for me to be a Nazi since they killed the Slavs. I'm also Korean and Chinese, aka not fully white, so it would be pretty weird for me to want the white race and eliminate all others.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

What do you oppose then? People having different opinions to yourself?

I'd think that the name makes things pretty clear. "Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism" is a rather straight forward name that none of our actions have been counter to.

"Then, your own construction can and will ask you to raid this region. For being a Nazi Collaborator. Proves my point that your definition of ' Nazi Collaborator' is a poor one."

It won't, at all, and you have no evidence to support your claim. CAIN has not, and will not, raid a region simply for believing the homosexuality is wrong. CAIN might, however, oppose a region that advocates for the same sort of persecution of the LGBT community that Nazi Germany did.

"My evidence is your own constitution. By your own poorly worded definitions, you would be mostly raiding any region who follows the Abrahamic
sets of faith. Ironically, that would include Jewish Regions."

[Brunhizzle]

"My evidence is your own constitution. By your own poorly worded definitions, you would be mostly raiding any region who follows the Abrahamic
sets of faith. Ironically, that would include Jewish Regions."

It wouldn't, as you've repeatedly ignored the requirements for a region to be designated as a Nazi Collaborator. The requirements which include 2/3rds of 24 signatories approving their nomination and a week's notice before designation. You are ignoring the fact that we're only looking to oppose those who seek to persecution the LGBT community in the same way that Nazi Germany persecuted them (through death camps and on the basis of eugenics). You're purposely changing the standards in order to fit your own narrative.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"My evidence is your own constitution. By your own poorly worded definitions, you would be mostly raiding any region who follows the Abrahamic
sets of faith. Ironically, that would include Jewish Regions."

It wouldn't, as you've repeatedly ignored the requirements for a region to be designated as a Nazi Collaborator. The requirements which include 2/3rds of 24 signatories approving their nomination and a week's notice before designation. You are ignoring the fact that we're only looking to oppose those who seek to persecution the LGBT community in the same way that Nazi Germany persecuted them (through death camps and on the basis of eugenics). You're purposely changing the standards in order to fit your own narrative.

"If my nation was a signatory, reading the definitions as they are, I would conclude that a Jewish region that in a minor way oppressed LGBT people, would say that 'yes this is a Nazi Collaborator'. Nothing you say in that argument has said that the eight nations required to do so wouldn't say so. This is what happens when you have weak definitions, you get people exploit them."

[Tim-Opolis]

Well, this was worth the time of the Security Council. I look forward to seeing a new record margin of failure for a proposal.

[Brunhizzle]

It wouldn't, as you've repeatedly ignored the requirements for a region to be designated as a Nazi Collaborator. The requirements which include 2/3rds of 24 signatories approving their nomination and a week's notice before designation. You are ignoring the fact that we're only looking to oppose those who seek to persecution the LGBT community in the same way that Nazi Germany persecuted them (through death camps and on the basis of eugenics). You're purposely changing the standards in order to fit your own narrative.

"If my nation was a signatory, reading the definitions as they are, I would conclude that a Jewish region that in a minor way oppressed LGBT people, would say that 'yes this is a Nazi Collaborator'. Nothing you say in that argument has said that the eight nations required to do so wouldn't say so. This is what happens when you have weak definitions, you get people exploit them."

Yes, there's no way 8 of the 24 regions with very different political and ideological beliefs will say "Let's not label these people as Nazi Collaborators over such a simple thing." Right, totally believable.

[Azarox]

At the risk of looking like a complete racist and moron, I would like to say something. Why does CAIN get to go around smearing the names of other regions as Nazi's? Why should they get to go around being the judge, jury, and executioner? Why are they able to go around persecuting people for running their region as they please? Was not the very purpose of this Nartion States too allow people to run nations as they see fit, and then regions elect delegates that they feel are best quailified for the position? Why should the CAIN get to tell regions what they can and can't do? To even go as far as to persecute regions because the elected delegates have sometimes posted racial sentiments (regardless of joking/shitposting intent). Why should they be the sole arbiter of whether or not a nation should be punished for their beliefs? Call me crazy but I still beleive that people shouldn't be punished for their thoughts or their expression of them. As long as they are not acting on their predjudices and raiding other regions out of bigotry, I see no reason for CAIN to go around smearing their name to push their agenda. I feel as though the members of CAIN are legitmately good people, whose intentions are coming from the right place. But after combing through their posts, I cannot support the actions they take. To smear other regions for affiliations with other regions that they don't agree with. I agree with the idea that racism and discrimination is factually and morally wrong. However, It is not mine, CAIN's, or anyone's place to enforce their will on others and try to force them to change their beliefs for some grandeous idea of "The Greater Good". Any region should be able to advocate for what they beleive. Ideas should be allowed to flow in a free market where people either buy into them or reject them. I don't know, that's just how I see it. If I got anything incorrect feel free to correct me.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"If my nation was a signatory, reading the definitions as they are, I would conclude that a Jewish region that in a minor way oppressed LGBT people, would say that 'yes this is a Nazi Collaborator'. Nothing you say in that argument has said that the eight nations required to do so wouldn't say so. This is what happens when you have weak definitions, you get people exploit them."

Yes, there's no way 8 of the 24 regions with very different political and ideological beliefs will say "Let's not label these people as Nazi Collaborators over such a simple thing." Right, totally believable.

"You expect me to believe that eight nations I have never met are 100% pure of heart and impossible to corrupt?"

[Brunhizzle]

"You expect me to believe that eight nations I have never met are 100% pure of heart and impossible to corrupt?"

I expect you to believe that there's no way 16 regions will approve of attacking a region simply because they're conservative in their social views.

[-Mr Money-]

At the risk of looking like a complete racist and moron, I would like to say something. Why does CAIN get to go around smearing the names of other regions as Nazi's? Why should they get to go around being the judge, jury, and executioner? Why are they able to go around persecuting people for running their region as they please? Was not the very purpose of this Nartion States too allow people to run nations as they see fit, and then regions elect delegates that they feel are best quailified for the position? Why should the CAIN get to tell regions what they can and can't do? To even go as far as to persecute regions because the elected delegates have sometimes posted racial sentiments (regardless of joking/shitposting intent). Why should they be the sole arbiter of whether or not a nation should be punished for their beliefs? Call me crazy but I still beleive that people shouldn't be punished for their thoughts or their expression of them. As long as they are not acting on their predjudices and raiding other regions out of bigotry, I see no reason for CAIN to go around smearing their name to push their agenda. I feel as though the members of CAIN are legitmately good people, whose intentions are coming from the right place. But after combing through their posts, I cannot support the actions they take. To smear other regions for affiliations with other regions that they don't agree with. I agree with the idea that racism and discrimination is factually and morally wrong. However, It is not mine, CAIN's, or anyone's place to enforce their will on others and try to force them to change their beliefs for some grandeous idea of "The Greater Good". Any region should be able to advocate for what they beleive. Ideas should be allowed to flow in a free market where people either buy into them or reject them. I don't know, that's just how I see it. If I got anything incorrect feel free to correct me.

I couldn't have worded it better. Exactly my thinking on the matter.

It won't, at all, and you have no evidence to support your claim. CAIN has not, and will not, raid a region simply for believing the homosexuality is wrong. CAIN might, however, oppose a region that advocates for the same sort of persecution of the LGBT community that Nazi Germany did.

Does that mean you'll oppose Stalinist Regions too?