NationStates

Sciongrad wrote:

Jarish Inyo wrote:According to clause 7, a manufacture can not transfer their product to a shop as the shop is not intended final recipient. So yes, this proposal dose prohibit trading weapons to intermediaries.

"That is not what that says. Clause 7 does not make any prohibition at all. It makes the transfer of a weapon to an intended final recipient conditional on the completion of an end-user certificate. It does not say that any arm that's ever transferred must be going to its final recipient."

What does this end-user certificate? Logistically speaking. A boilerplate certificate can be placed on the Confederacy government portal and anyone who has a gun can print it or download one on their mobile device, assuming our peace officers will ask for it; they won't.

Our constitution allows all citizens the right to be armed. We don't issue permits for open or concealed carry. If you harm someone you go to jail or you get to be their indentured servant. If you kill someone, the matriarch of your great house shall bring you to the head of your house and that of your victim. You'll be stretched, beheaded and your head placed on a pike outside of your home on the front lawn.

How many criminal murders and gun related crimes do you think we have each year? Not many.

PS- we shall leave the world assembly if this resolution passes. The council of the great houses, the government administration and the proposal body of the confederate tricameral have agreed that it is better to leave the organization than to continually strike assembly legislation in the rectication body of the tricameral. We now ignore such nonsense WA legislation to lie to the public and pretend that transgendered people are a thing. We have had to strike laws that cater to all kinds of people who hold a group identitarian, victimhood mentality. Our society has unparalleled freedoms but only so far as our government does not compel someone else to participate at their own principles.

I urge my fellow members and neighbors not to pass this resolution.

Peace and long life!

Normanion will continue to vote "Against" on such matters, as it is our opinion that no policy is the best policy. Let the free market flourish.

The resolution should be re worded so that it better defines which parties would be regulated and at what quantities. If an arm manufacture is importing sporting or defensive weapons to be sold at legal stores they should not be affected by this resolution. It should only apply to either mass sales to a sovereign government/organization or sales of weapons whos only practical application is for warfare.

Vulcan Confederacy wrote:<snip>

"Ambassador, I would encourage you to ditch your nation's victimhood mentality and actually read the resolution, which states, in part:

Sciongrad wrote:5. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting:

1. those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law,
2. future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or
3. future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

"In other words, your domestic gun laws will not change one bit with the passage of this resolution."

"Also, I would note your criminal punishment laws appear to place you in violation of GA Resolutions #9, #23, and #375. I would beg you to remain in the Assembly, but I'm much more concerned with making sure the building doors don't get damaged by impact with your backside on the way out."

Huh? There's enforcements, I've been breaking WA laws for years and they've never enforced the law on me. I believe the WA are spineless cowards who wouldn't enforce the laws due to the fact the WA would fear that, the nation would leave.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Huh? There's enforcements, I've been breaking WA laws for years and they've never enforced the law on me. I believe the WA are spineless cowards who wouldn't enforce the laws due to the fact the WA would fear that, the nation would leave.

"The door is that way, Ambassador. You can walk out of it, or I can make a new window so that we can defenestrate you through it."

Wallenburg wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Huh? There's enforcements, I've been breaking WA laws for years and they've never enforced the law on me. I believe the WA are spineless cowards who wouldn't enforce the laws due to the fact the WA would fear that, the nation would leave.

"The door is that way, Ambassador. You can walk out of it, or I can make a new window so that we can defenestrate you through it."

Hey, WA allows me one thing, let me get endorsements. Why would I give that up? Plus as I said before I am completely 'terrified' of these 'enforcing laws'. I'll vote for them if it lets the WA sleep at night, but during those said nights I'll be taking my nightly 'walks'.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:

Wallenburg wrote:"The door is that way, Ambassador. You can walk out of it, or I can make a new window so that we can defenestrate you through it."

Hey, WA allows me one thing, let me get endorsements. Why would I give that up? Plus as I said before I am completely 'terrified' of these 'enforcing laws'. I'll vote for them if it lets the WA sleep at night, but during those said nights I'll be taking my nightly 'walks'.

"Well, let me see then how successful you have been in gathering endorsements for your delegation. Oh! It appears that you have a great whopping zero endorsements! Impressive! Forgive me, I had no idea how valuable membership with the World Assembly could be!"

Ogenbond checks the time and nods. "All right. As I said, there's the door. The gnomes are building a special window up on the third floor of this chamber and a skylight above the main door that are designed to open together for the defenestration of unruly ambassadors. They should be done in a couple of minutes."

OOC: I'm not sure how familiar you are with this forum, but roleplaying noncompliance is considered extremely poor taste here.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Huh? There's enforcements, I've been breaking WA laws for years and they've never enforced the law on me. I believe the WA are spineless cowards who wouldn't enforce the laws due to the fact the WA would fear that, the nation would leave.

Normanion stands with the Holy Tedalonia in their anti-globalism stance.

Unfortunately, it seems that the WA doesn't trust member nations to conduct their own trade. Why should some self-righteous group of foreigners decide if the Lardain Government or one of our businesses can sell machine guns to other countries? It's a large part of our nation's revenue. We have only been a member of this body for a short time, but we can already see how controlling and abusive it is.
-Ambassador Wildflower Walters

Lardingo wrote:Unfortunately, it seems that the WA doesn't trust member nations to conduct their own trade. Why should some self-righteous group of foreigners decide if the Lardain Government or one of our businesses can sell machine guns to other countries? It's a large part of our nation's revenue. We have only been a member of this body for a short time, but we can already see how controlling and abusive it is.
-Ambassador Wildflower Walters

"If you do not want to be part of the World Assembly, you are free to resign at any time."

Jarish Inyo wrote:We would have to oppose this as gun stores would not be able to purchase stock as they would not be the intended final recipient.

This is the most detrimental aspect of signing this legislation. In states with a firearm-trade based economies, prosperity will decrease, and quality of life will follow suit.

We at the KingWA Conflomerate and myself, Thadeus Smith, disagree with this resolution due to its poor wording.

Two subpoints:

A. Weapons used in cyber warfare falls underneath the definition of 'armament'. However, these assets can be transferred quickly and easily from anywhere to anywhere, and without a trace. These facts making the proposal ineffective.

B. The prohibition of sending armaments to non-member nations could easily be exploited to force nations which wish to maintain higher autonomy out of the weapons marketplace. This could potentially be an attempt to strong arm nations into the WA.

We strongly urge nations to change votes if possible, and to vote in the negation.

Ormencia Bythoria

Ormencia Bythoria wrote:We at the KingWA Conflomerate and myself, Thadeus Smith, disagree with this resolution due to its poor wording.

Two subpoints:

A. Weapons used in cyber warfare falls underneath the definition of 'armament'. However, these assets can be transferred quickly and easily from anywhere to anywhere, and without a trace. These facts making the proposal ineffective.

"The possibility of willful, undeniable noncompliance has never been a valid challenge against a resolution."

B. The prohibition of sending armaments to non-member nations could easily be exploited to force nations which wish to maintain higher autonomy out of the weapons marketplace. This could potentially be an attempt to strong arm nations into the WA.

We strongly urge nations to change votes if possible, and to vote in the negation.

Ormencia Bythoria

"This resolution does not ban trade of arms to non-member states."

Wallenburg wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Hey, WA allows me one thing, let me get endorsements. Why would I give that up? Plus as I said before I am completely 'terrified' of these 'enforcing laws'. I'll vote for them if it lets the WA sleep at night, but during those said nights I'll be taking my nightly 'walks'.

"Well, let me see then how successful you have been in gathering endorsements for your delegation. Oh! It appears that you have a great whopping zero endorsements! Impressive! Forgive me, I had no idea how valuable membership with the World Assembly could be!"

Ogenbond checks the time and nods. "All right. As I said, there's the door. The gnomes are building a special window up on the third floor of this chamber and a skylight above the main door that are designed to open together for the defenestration of unruly ambassadors. They should be done in a couple of minutes."

OOC: I'm not sure how familiar you are with this forum, but roleplaying noncompliance is considered extremely poor taste here.

I actually have 1 endorsement and I'm the delegate.

Holy Tedalonia wrote:

Wallenburg wrote:"Well, let me see then how successful you have been in gathering endorsements for your delegation. Oh! It appears that you have a great whopping zero endorsements! Impressive! Forgive me, I had no idea how valuable membership with the World Assembly could be!"

Ogenbond checks the time and nods. "All right. As I said, there's the door. The gnomes are building a special window up on the third floor of this chamber and a skylight above the main door that are designed to open together for the defenestration of unruly ambassadors. They should be done in a couple of minutes."

OOC: I'm not sure how familiar you are with this forum, but roleplaying noncompliance is considered extremely poor taste here.

I actually have 1 endorsement and I'm the delegate.

OOC: That's rather irrelevant now. What I said was true at the time when I posted.

Wallenburg wrote:

Holy Tedalonia wrote:I actually have 1 endorsement and I'm the delegate.

OOC: That's rather irrelevant now. What I said was true at the time when I posted.

What can I say? Lots of my friends stopped playing, so I kinda lost all my previous endorsements until now.

Morlago wrote:

Azaman wrote:As a representative for my nation, I wish to formally announce that should this act be passed, we refuse to abide by it. Weapons and mass military are our protection being a region full of dictatorships and monarchy nations. We can't feel safe relying on the World Assembly alone to protect us. Any act, or sanction, that forces us to cut our weapons manufacturing or military, will be overlooked, and we will gladly say Deal With It.

"In addition to the words of our fellow ambassadors, we remind you that you are bound by GAR #122, and given your response, also recommend that you consider hiring more than just one sapient, literate employee."

The Vulcan confederacy will also ignore this resolution, as other resolutions are being struck down as lacking constitutional authority, as is the right of the expungement body. Our military is replacing soldiers with giant, nuclear powered robots. Our economy is strong and our tech sector unhindered by wanton and wreck less government waste and regulation.

If this resolution passes, we shall be forced to consider withdrawing from the WA.

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:

Vulcan Confederacy wrote:<snip>

"Ambassador, I would encourage you to ditch your nation's victimhood mentality and actually read the resolution, which states, in part:

Sciongrad wrote:5. Assures member nations of the exclusive right to determine purely internal arms trading and firearm policy, excepting:

1. those regulations recognized by the terms of this resolution or extant international law,
2. future regulations which seek to prevent firearms from being sold to or used by individuals that pose a danger of performing imminent lawless action, or
3. future resolutions which seek to relax regulations on purchasing firearms for recreational reasons only;

"In other words, your domestic gun laws will not change one bit with the passage of this resolution."

"Also, I would note your criminal punishment laws appear to place you in violation of GA Resolutions #9, #23, and #375. I would beg you to remain in the Assembly, but I'm much more concerned with making sure the building doors don't get damaged by impact with your backside on the way out."

No offense intended, mate - but blatant and complete violation of WA regulations like that is frowned on.

We are a confederation. Our national government doesn't make policy regarding punishment for criminal offenses with the exception of treason and subversion of the constitution; both merit death.

Criminal punishment in our society, for petty theft up to and including murder, begins with the family, the extended famil, the whole house and those families that make up our great houses. All resolutions dealing with crime and punishment go through the citizens from the nuclear family up, not the top down. They council of the great houses have said no- it's their jurisdiction.

If either the administrator or first minister attempt to seize control from the population from the bottom up, they would be arrested for obstruction of the constitution, tried and if found guilty, shot. There is no incentive in our system to break the constitution or to pass unfounded and illogical laws and regulations upon the people.

On a side note. Some of the most authoritarian and malicious laws have been passed by the WA. In the name of everything from environmental protection to civil and human rights. The proposal group of the tricameral is putting together a short list of bills to target for repeal. They will be posted here soon. May we together find common ground to restoring balance, peace and sovereignty to our nations. Perhaps then we will have less to worry about in terms of defense expenditures.

We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, in Compliance with the Dictates of our Holy Empress of Empresses, Hypatia Sophia I, Her most august Assembly, the Sisterhood of Huggy-Squeezables, together with the Shaktirajyan Gemeinschaft, our village Panchayats and their Constituents vote AGAINST this Resolution for the following Reasons: We remain steadfastly anti-War, but from the Point of View of Realpolitik, We deem these Restrictions on the Transference of Arms and conventional Weaponry to be overly burdensome to member Nations. It is unwieldy and unrealistic to attempt to impose Legislation to limit the Proliferation of Armaments. We will support the WA in any Proposal to help stop the Spread of Nuclear and biological Weapons, but this Legislation to attempt to Limit the Trade and Transfer of Armaments during Wartime is patently absurd. It's War not a Game of Patty-Cake. As much as We would like to invite all the Nations of the World to drop their Weapons, stop the former and instead engage in the latter, We realize that War is an unfortunate Reality in Today's World.

AGAINST

Ita Est! Iti Alam!

Vaktaha Samajavadinaha Matrurajasya Shaktirajasya

Vulcan Confederacy wrote:

Morlago wrote:"In addition to the words of our fellow ambassadors, we remind you that you are bound by GAR #122, and given your response, also recommend that you consider hiring more than just one sapient, literate employee."

The Vulcan confederacy will also ignore this resolution, as other resolutions are being struck down as lacking constitutional authority, as is the right of the expungement body. Our military is replacing soldiers with giant, nuclear powered robots. Our economy is strong and our tech sector unhindered by wanton and wreck less government waste and regulation.

If this resolution passes, we shall be forced to consider withdrawing from the WA.

"World Assembly law overrides national constitutions. Your constitution means nothing in the face of the international resolutions you are violating."

Vulcan Confederacy wrote:

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
"Ambassador, I would encourage you to ditch your nation's victimhood mentality and actually read the resolution, which states, in part:



"In other words, your domestic gun laws will not change one bit with the passage of this resolution."

"Also, I would note your criminal punishment laws appear to place you in violation of GA Resolutions #9, #23, and #375. I would beg you to remain in the Assembly, but I'm much more concerned with making sure the building doors don't get damaged by impact with your backside on the way out."

No offense intended, mate - but blatant and complete violation of WA regulations like that is frowned on.

We are a confederation. Our national government doesn't make policy regarding punishment for criminal offenses with the exception of treason and subversion of the constitution; both merit death.

Criminal punishment in our society, for petty theft up to and including murder, begins with the family, the extended famil, the whole house and those families that make up our great houses. All resolutions dealing with crime and punishment go through the citizens from the nuclear family up, not the top down. They council of the great houses have said no- it's their jurisdiction.

If either the administrator or first minister attempt to seize control from the population from the bottom up, they would be arrested for obstruction of the constitution, tried and if found guilty, shot. There is no incentive in our system to break the constitution or to pass unfounded and illogical laws and regulations upon the people.

On a side note. Some of the most authoritarian and malicious laws have been passed by the WA. In the name of everything from environmental protection to civil and human rights. The proposal group of the tricameral is putting together a short list of bills to target for repeal. They will be posted here soon. May we together find common ground to restoring balance, peace and sovereignty to our nations. Perhaps then we will have less to worry about in terms of defense expenditures.

Normanion stands with you.

Are we allowed to bring legislation down on non-WA nations?

NO. We need militaries to keep order and prevent terrorists and anarchists from destroying our nations. All nations in modern times have always had a military. The U.F.S.A. will vote against this 'law'.

United Areas of Conservatives wrote:Are we allowed to bring legislation down on non-WA nations?

No. WA resolutions only apply to member states.