[Passed] Rights of the Quarantined

[Tinhampton]

Everyone has the right to live wherever the person wants to live as long as he will not infringe others' lives and rights. Respect everyone's decision.

Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: Ambassador, where would you be willing to draw the line? Is the potential to infect other peoples considered to be "infringement"?

[The Atlae Isles]

The Atlae Isles will vote FOR Rights of the Quarantined. This is a good replacement for the resolution that was previously repealed.

OOC: Of course, you could always put in factors like morbidity or virulence in the quarantine, or latency and incubation periods, or of course, diseases carried by asymptomatic carriers, a victim of a subclinical illness. But a quarantine will do its best.

[The Atlae Isles]

OOC: Of course, you could always put in factors like morbidity or virulence in the quarantine, or latency and incubation periods, or of course, diseases carried by asymptomatic carriers, a victim of a subclinical illness. But a quarantine will do its best.

Here's a definition list if you don't know what these are:

Morbidity: Condition of being diseased
Virulence: Measure of severity of disease
Latency Period: Period between exposure and infection, disease not contagious
Incubation Period: Period between infection and first symptoms, disease is possibly contagious
Carrier: One who carries a disease and is contagious but does not have symptoms (OOC: Look up Typhoid Mary)
Subclinical: Disease that for some people, do not have clinical symptoms

I hope your quarantine can factor in all of these. Still, vote FOR.

-Minister of Health Sarah Leizer

[The Manticoran Empire]

Everyone has the right to live wherever the person wants to live as long as he will not infringe others' lives and rights. Respect everyone's decision.

Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: Ambassador, where would you be willing to draw the line? Is the potential to infect other peoples considered to be "infringement"?

"I concur with the delegate from Tinhampton. An infected individual is a direct threat to the well being of the general population. Surely in this case priority rests in safeguarding the greater number of lives? How can we claim to have our people's best interests in mind if we allow their lives to be threatened by disease unnecessarily? Where do we draw the line and say, "No. The rights if the infected end where the safety of the uninfected is endangered."

[Shaktirajya]

We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, are skeptical of the medical establishment especially insofar as it tries to impose itself on the sovereignty of citizens. We believe that this measure will allow too much room for the medical establishment to overstep its bounds and authority. We also have world-class medical care and our development and longevity rates are among the highest in the world. For the reasons mentioned aforesaid, We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, in agreement with our regional delegate, Big Bad Badger, hereby votes AGAINST this resolution.

Samajvadinaha Mataraajasya Shaktiraajasya Vaktaha

[LollerLand]

On behalf of the citizens of The Universal Allegiance, I will be voting FOR this proposal.

Lollerland
WA Delegate

[Death Star America]

With all do respect leaders one thing I do not see in this proposal if I'm not mistaken, is a clause on the proper disposal of infected materials when a quarantine is over. For example the deceased, bedding, irrigation of infected bodily waste while in quarantine, medical instruments etc etc. I think it would be a mistake not to address this.

[The Manticoran Empire]

With all do respect leaders one thing I do not see in this proposal if I'm not mistaken, is a clause on the proper disposal of infected materials when a quarantine is over. For example the deceased, bedding, irrigation of infected bodily waste while in quarantine, medical instruments etc etc. I think it would be a mistake not to address this.

"Here, here."

[Death Star America]

With all do respect leaders one thing I do not see in this proposal if I'm not mistaken, is a clause on the proper disposal of infected materials when a quarantine is over. For example the deceased, bedding, irrigation of infected bodily waste while in quarantine, medical instruments etc etc. I think it would be a mistake not to address this.

"Here, here."

Thank you good sir, what say you leaders? Not properly outlining this could lead to a number of health and rights violations as well as the propagation of deadly contagious and infections crossing borders due to negligent means, as well as the well being of victims of said quarantine scenarios.

[Death Star America]

With all do respect leaders one thing I do not see in this proposal if I'm not mistaken, is a clause on the proper disposal of infected materials when a quarantine is over. For example the deceased, bedding, irrigation of infected bodily waste while in quarantine, medical instruments etc etc. I think it would be a mistake not to address this.

"Here, here."

Ahem, pardon me. Thank you madam.

[The Manticoran Empire]

"Here, here."

Ahem, pardon me. Thank you madam.

(Yes, my delegate is female.)

"Here, here."

Thank you good sir, what say you leaders? Not properly outlining this could lead to a number of health and rights violations as well as the propagation of deadly contagious and infections crossing borders due to negligent means, as well as the well being of victims of said quarantine scenarios.

"As I have said before, it is the responsibility of governments to ensure the security and liberty of their people. An infection threatens security and liberty and there must be an internationally accepted method of not just treating the infected but also preventing reinfection and the spread of the disease through rubbish.

[Moderatainia]

With all do respect leaders one thing I do not see in this proposal if I'm not mistaken, is a clause on the proper disposal of infected materials when a quarantine is over. For example the deceased, bedding, irrigation of infected bodily waste while in quarantine, medical instruments etc etc. I think it would be a mistake not to address this.

An excellent point, as the morbid bounty of biologically hazardous material that is the inescapeable result of widespread pestilence has the potential to be weaponised during times of war; a time at which the risk of epidemic within a warring nation is (be it ever so slightly) heightened.

In light of this, Moderatainia withdraws her vote until such time this issue is addressed.

Addendum: In light of further debate, should there not be at least passing mention of this issue, Moderatainia shall move in opposition of this resolution within the final few hours of voting.

[Imperium Anglorum]

"Here, here."

Hear* Hear*

[Umeria]

"Proper disposal of infectious deceased should probably be handled by a separate resolution, as quarantines are not the only place where undisposed corpses can be found."

[Death Star America]

Yes ambassador, but these are not just corpses they are they are biohazard time bombs and the disposal of the deceased has been a major issue for reinfection and yes, weaponization in the past. Also the rights of the deceased need to be addressed as well as the bereaved families. Now as i have stated plumbing and infrastructure of quarantine zones needs to be addressed as well. For the good of the nation as a whole and the victims of quarantine. Bodily waste cannot be allowed to enter the main infrastructure of sewer systems on the threat of contaminating the population. Plumbing will have to be quarantined as well and those wastes will have to be removed and disposed of properly or the rights to "clean" spaces that these unfortunates will be kept in will be violated by reinfection and attempts at treatment and cures will fail due to such implementations not being properly outlined.

[Pallaith]

Office of the Minister of World Assembly Affairs
November 30, 2016

The resolution is a resubmission of Quarantine Regulation (GA #385), which was repealed by its author in GA #387. The new resolution adds an ethics board, but the rest of the operative clauses remain effectively unchanged, and does not address all of the concerns the original author raised in the repeal of GA #385. We supported repealing GA #385 because it burdened nations with mandates that did not consider their own principles and existing healthcare systems, and this new resolution does not address the concerns raised in our recommendation for the repeal.

Additionally, the new resolution only addresses those who are confirmed to be infected and sick, who should be isolated. It does not address those who may have been exposed to disease and need to be quarantined to see if they become sick.

Regulating the specific actions a nation must take in the event of an outbreak is best left to that nation's government, but should the World Assembly decide to regulate this matter, the resolution should cover all possibilities.

For these reasons, the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs encourages a vote against this resolution.

[The Manticoran Empire]

I should probably stop agreeing with the Americans but they raise good points. Any quarantine legislation would need to include the infrastructure needed for it as well as the disposal of materials during and after the quarantine.

(Image)

Office of the Minister of World Assembly Affairs
November 30, 2016

The resolution is a resubmission of Quarantine Regulation (GA #385), which was repealed by its author in GA #387. The new resolution adds an ethics board, but the rest of the operative clauses remain effectively unchanged, and does not address all of the concerns the original author raised in the repeal of GA #385. We supported repealing GA #385 because it burdened nations with mandates that did not consider their own principles and existing healthcare systems, and this new resolution does not address the concerns raised in our recommendation for the repeal.

Additionally, the new resolution only addresses those who are confirmed to be infected and sick, who should be isolated. It does not address those who may have been exposed to disease and need to be quarantined to see if they become sick.

Regulating the specific actions a nation must take in the event of an outbreak is best left to that nation's government, but should the World Assembly decide to regulate this matter, the resolution should cover all possibilities.

For these reasons, the Ministry of World Assembly Affairs encourages a vote against this resolution.

Excellent points, Ambassador.

[The Atlae Isles]

I should probably stop agreeing with the Americans but they raise good points. Any quarantine legislation would need to include the infrastructure needed for it as well as the disposal of materials during and after the quarantine.

It doesn't have to, and since it doesn't, if it passes, then subsequent legislation can be used to address the legislation for the whole issue, not just during quarantines.

[Death Star America]

Thank you, madam and the minister of affairs brings up some solid points. What method of "round up" would be used for the infected and the exposed. Also oversight on escalation levels of force used to separate people from their families, i shudder to picture a gestapo scenario. Also would their be a registry for the infected and if so how public would that be? All valid questions mister ambassador.

[Los Angeles de lxs Liberadxs]

Cde. Dr. El Shanahan, Executive Delegate of English Communications for the Federal Commission on WAGA Health Policy, and Visiting WAGA Associate Delegate: "4A is a perfect example of how this resolution is way too specific and autocratic. The GA shouldn't dictate the specifics of sensitive medical operations when conditions could be unpredictable and deteriorate quickly. Health care and public health specialists on the ground should decide the best tactics for each urgent situation with local and federal/national leaders, not check a list of boxes for us Delegates. This whole approach adds micromanaging and subtracts professionalism, the exact opposite of what is needed in a medical crisis."

You mean if the infected person has gone insane? In those cases, their old self has already died...

"This is insane. This is the medical equivalent of flat-earth theory. In absolutely no sense do all communicable diseases with mental illness components involve an 'old self' that is 'already dead'. It would frankly be an extreme claim to say that even some diseases work this way. It would require mountains of evidence, and I see none. Please, leave this thinking to the zombie flicks, for everyone's sake."

[Death Star America]

Your missing part of the point Minister Williamson, true separate legislation could be written on disposal of materials, but grieving families due need to be addressed and the rights of the deceased. Obviously we can't let the two come in contact but it would be cold to just toss them in the incinerator and say "oh well". So I think the rights aspect still needs to be addressed as well as i have stated methods of humanity detaining patients and the use of lethal force in a standoff scenario. The registry issue needs to be addressed as well.

[The Manticoran Empire]

I should probably stop agreeing with the Americans but they raise good points. Any quarantine legislation would need to include the infrastructure needed for it as well as the disposal of materials during and after the quarantine.

It doesn't have to, and since it doesn't, if it passes, then subsequent legislation can be used to address the legislation for the whole issue, not just during quarantines.

Mr. Williamsen, a quarantine regulation that doesn't cover the disposal of materials involved is like a nuclear disarmament treaty that doesn't cover the disposal of the weapons.

[Death Star America]

It doesn't have to, and since it doesn't, if it passes, then subsequent legislation can be used to address the legislation for the whole issue, not just during quarantines.

Mr. Williamsen, a quarantine regulation that doesn't cover the disposal of materials involved is like a nuclear disarmament treaty that doesn't cover the disposal of the weapons.

Agreed

[The Atlae Isles]

It doesn't have to, and since it doesn't, if it passes, then subsequent legislation can be used to address the legislation for the whole issue, not just during quarantines.

Mr. Williamsen, a quarantine regulation that doesn't cover the disposal of materials involved is like a nuclear disarmament treaty that doesn't cover the disposal of the weapons.

Actually, since quarantines are supposed to keep bacterial material away from the public, the disposal of materials is actually not the primary concern. (Of course, it's a huge problem, which does need to be covered) It could still need a resolution to address it (if you've read page 3 of the forum, Umeria had to cut out a few parts because it had reached the character limit), and it should be fine, because it would not be conflicting with Rights of the Quarantined.

For your comparison, it would probably be more accurate to be concerned about what to do with the nuclear material you have now after dismantling all your thermonuclear weapons. Perhaps you would need a resolution (and a debate) to store it somewhere safe or convert it into nuclear energy. You can't kill two birds with one stone here.

[The Atlae Isles]

Your missing part of the point Minister Williamson, true separate legislation could be written on disposal of materials, but grieving families due need to be addressed and the rights of the deceased. Obviously we can't let the two come in contact but it would be cold to just toss them in the incinerator and say "oh well". So I think the rights aspect still needs to be addressed as well as i have stated methods of humanity detaining patients and the use of lethal force in a standoff scenario. The registry issue needs to be addressed as well.

My name is Williamsen. But never mind that. It seems no one that can spell my name right.

I'm confused about what you say here, as there are way too few commas, but I assume what you're saying is that when the outbreak is done killing people, the deceased will not have anywhere to go. That is a valid concern.

Grieving families don't prevent you from introducing a proposal to dispose appropriately of the deceased. But until you do, each WA nation would not have any restrictions to practice whatever burial practice they choose. They could bury them, or they could just lock them up into the incinerator, like you have said. But that's their decision, whether subjectively right or wrong, until you write the resolution. *hint *hint.

Also, in page 3 of the transcript of this debate, you can read that when Rights of the Quarantined was being submitted, it exceeded the character limit. We can't add that cadaver burial clause. Sorry, you have to write your own.