[Passed] Rights of the Quarantined

[Separatist Peoples]

"Treated how with regards to their freedom and dignity?"

Fairly. Added the adverb.

Bell massages his temples, frustrated. "It seems that, even though you did not copy and paste my words, you used them without fully understanding the meaning behind them. The inclusion of a medical ethics board is not to add a subdivided list of bullets to address the base concerns of those quarantined, ambassador, it is to task a group of professionals with a higher power."

He holds up a list of the examples he had previously raised. "The ethical concerns might be those of food and water access, but could as much be the sensitive issues surrounding forced relocation or measuring quality of life against available resources. Your current wording, what little of it makes sense, relegates the board to logistics, not ethics, except in your third, incomplete point, which has a partial directive to consider freedom and dignity, but is followed with no empowerment to that end.

"An ethical board needs to have the power to approve, monitor, review, and correct measures taken in large quarantine efforts. It needs to be specifically empowered not to oversee the distribution of clean water and bedpans, but to weigh measures of necessity against the rights and welfare of the afflicted. It needs to focus on ethics, dammit, and not logistics. These are people, their needs go beyond rations and supplies!"

Bell looks to his staff to use their enthusiastic nods to demonstrate support for his position, but remembers that he doesn't have a staff. "You have to see the issue here, ambassador, or you need to hand the baton to somebody who does. This is a rare issue where high morals and extreme exigent necessity cross. We need to make the decision with compassion and rigor now, or the decision will be made by a cold-hearted bean-counter later, and it sure won't be the bean-counter who suffers for it."

The ethics board has authority. It says they have to ensure the infected persons are treated fairly and given items of necessity. How does that not cover those issues?

"Good lord, Lockwood, ethics aren't just about fairness alone! If that was the case, we would just need a team versed in chancery and equity. Ethics is about the application of moral principals. It is so much more than mere equity, it deals with fundamental rights and wrongs and weighs them against the circumstances. You've empowered the board with logistical responsibilities. I suggested you grant the board full authority to review all actions undertaken to establish and promulgate a quarantine. That means they have absolute authority to call into question any part or even all of the measures, and their yardstick is one of moral principal. Not. Bean-counting. The way you have this written, they sound like damn quartermasters.

"On second thought, ambassador Lockwood, I believe you should use my phrasing verbatim. I don't know how you can't see the difference in scope between your clause and mine...medical ethics goes beyond just supplying the necessities..."

[Umeria]

I don't know how you can't see the difference in scope between your clause and mine...medical ethics goes beyond just supplying the necessities..."

"I understand the scope, I just can't phrase it right, maybe if I, no that wouldn't work..." Lockwood scribbles frustratingly on the draft.

Cubbins walks in. "I heard there was an issue with phrasing. Okay, if we change this, and turn this into this... done. Though it's a quick job, there's probably a hole somewhere. Let me know if there's any more problems." he exits.

[Jarish Inyo]

c.ensure that infected individuals are treated fairly with regards to individual freedom and dignity; and

And what?

[States of Glory WA Office]

c.ensure that infected individuals are treated fairly with regards to individual freedom and dignity; and

And what?

Fairburn: Nothing wrong with a cliffhanger. Increases tension, don't you know?

Neville: It's a lead-in to Clause Seven.

Fairburn: ...I knew that.

[Umeria]

Carlyle: So, does anyone have any other suggestions? Or did we magically write up a finished proposal? I know we can't be that lucky.

[Cogoria]

Don't worry about it until the repeal happens, cause that can still be shot down which would make this pointless, its good for now, but in the off chance the repeal is a success, THEN people will look at this and tear it apart

[Tahkranul]

"It certainly looks finished to me, dear. I'm amazed that there's actually a repeal and replace effort I'm in favor of -- of course, having an improved replacement draft sitting in front of me is certainly reassuring."

[States of Glory WA Office]

Neville: Slight nitpick, but why is it 'Further Understanding', 'Further Noting' and 'Further Wishing' rather than 'Further understanding', 'Further noting' and 'Further wishing'?

...

Trust me, it'll make sense in the transcript.

[Umeria]

"Well, if that's all, then this proposal is, for the moment, done. Hopefully, after the edits, the repeal draft will go just as smoothly."

OOC: Am I supposed to change the header to "shelved" or something until the repeal is passed?

[B N L]

"If there was an outbreak, say, tommorow, isn't it best to just pass this fix? It takes less time and does the exact same thing."

-Dr. Jonathan Ace
President of BNL

[Umeria]

"If there was an outbreak, say, tommorow, isn't it best to just pass this fix? It takes less time and does the exact same thing."

-Dr. Jonathan Ace
President of BNL

"If you mean just draft clauses 6 and 7, I believe that would be a borderline house of cards violation, but I'm not sure."

[B N L]

"Another option could just be, pass this and then repeal Quarantine Regulation. It's best if there is no time spent with no regulation on this very important issue."

-Dr. Jonathan Ace
President of BNL

[Kryozerkia]

"Another option could just be, pass this and then repeal Quarantine Regulation. It's best if there is no time spent with no regulation on this very important issue."

-Dr. Jonathan Ace
President of BNL

Doesn't work that way. If this proposal was submitted BEFORE the original resolution was repealed, the proposal would be removed for duplication.

[Wrapper]

OOC: Am I supposed to change the header to "shelved" or something until the repeal is passed?

No, to most that would mean you've abandoned the effort. You could just leave it as a DRAFT until you're ready to submit it. Who knows, maybe while you're waiting for the other one to be repealed, someone might come up with some unexpected, stellar idea that could further improve this.

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: Am I supposed to change the header to "shelved" or something until the repeal is passed?

No, to most that would mean you've abandoned the effort. You could just leave it as a DRAFT until you're ready to submit it. Who knows, maybe while you're waiting for the other one to be repealed, someone might come up with some unexpected, stellar idea that could further improve this.

OOC: For a spacefaring nation, I'm a little surprised that you've neglected to acknowledge interstellar ideas for improvement.

[Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland]

"We take issue with the definition of "epidemic" used in this proposal. It may make sense for a contiguous land nation, but it breaks down in the case of, for example, island archipelago nations, where a disease could devastate one island without spreading throughout the entire nation. To use an example closer to home, let's say a disease breaks out in the Schutzenphalian Congo. The disease is so infectious that it quickly spreads throughout the entire population and it "significantly decrease[s]" the population's "functioning and/or [sic] well-being". But, it doesn't spread to the Schutzenphalian Alps: how could it? It's thousands of miles away. We claim the Schutzenphalian Congo as our sovereign territory, and there is no international law defining a "nation" otherwise, but under your definition, it would mean this terrible disease wouldn't be classed as "epidemic".

"Basing biomedical definitions on geopolitical classifications is nonsense. It would be much more sensible to base the definition on the disease's impact on the population: once it's epidemic within that population, it doesn't matter how "nations" are assigned."

~ Katinka von Ausserkundszell
Second Deputy Under-Secretary to the Foreign and Colonial Office

[Umeria]

"We take issue with the definition of "epidemic" used in this proposal. It may make sense for a contiguous land nation, but it breaks down in the case of, for example, island archipelago nations, where a disease could devastate one island without spreading throughout the entire nation. To use an example closer to home, let's say a disease breaks out in the Schutzenphalian Congo. The disease is so infectious that it quickly spreads throughout the entire population and it "significantly decrease[s]" the population's "functioning and/or [sic] well-being". But, it doesn't spread to the Schutzenphalian Alps: how could it? It's thousands of miles away. We claim the Schutzenphalian Congo as our sovereign territory, and there is no international law defining a "nation" otherwise, but under your definition, it would mean this terrible disease wouldn't be classed as "epidemic".

"Basing biomedical definitions on geopolitical classifications is nonsense. It would be much more sensible to base the definition on the disease's impact on the population: once it's epidemic within that population, it doesn't matter how "nations" are assigned."

~ Katinka von Ausserkundszell
Second Deputy Under-Secretary to the Foreign and Colonial Office

"In your scenario, the nations functioning and well-being are decreased. Infected people can't work, which significantly decreases functioning, and even the people in the alps would be worried about their fellow Schutzenphalians dying, significantly decreasing the well-being. Such a problem would be considered an epidemic.

"In the case of archipelago nations, the island itself can easily be turned into a quarantine, correct?"

[Araraukar]

"In the case of archipelago nations, the island itself can easily be turned into a quarantine, correct?"

And thus condemn all the still-healthy citizens living there to become infected?

[Umeria]

"In the case of archipelago nations, the island itself can easily be turned into a quarantine, correct?"

And thus condemn all the still-healthy citizens living there to become infected?

"Well, the citizens that are still healthy would presumably leave by boat, except for the assigned medical personnel."

[Jarish Inyo]

And thus condemn all the still-healthy citizens living there to become infected?

"Well, the citizens that are still healthy would presumably leave by boat, except for the assigned medical personnel."

So, an island nation is to have it's healthy citizens leave the nation completely?

[Umeria]

"Well, the citizens that are still healthy would presumably leave by boat, except for the assigned medical personnel."

So, an island nation is to have it's healthy citizens leave the nation completely?

"This is for nations containing multiple islands. A single-island nation would use only a portion of the island as a quarantine, as of course an archipelago nation could as well."

[Umeria]

"We believe this is ready for submission. However, we are probably wrong."

[Cogoria]

Rep. Baryshnikov: Cogoria also takes issue with your definition of epedemic. We believe that the medical definition should be used rather than this monstrosity of wording. A medical term should not be redefined by political flights of fancy.

[Umeria]

Rep. Baryshnikov: Cogoria also takes issue with your definition of epedemic. We believe that the medical definition should be used rather than this monstrosity of wording. A medical term should not be redefined by political flights of fancy.

"The term is not being redefined, it just has a specific meaning for the purposes of this resolution. What exactly is wrong with the definition?"

[Umeria]

Carlyle doesn't want to rush this proposal. If she submits now, there will almost certainly be a huge problem with it, just like there was with Quarantine Regulation.

Waiting for something should be easy. It is, after all, doing nothing.

She retrieved a thick book entitled The Icy Claws of the Undead from her suitcase and started reading. Hopefully it wouldn't look undiplomatic.