[PASSED] International Criminal Court

[Glen-Rhodes]

It is my firm hope this World Assembly will finally receive a magnum opus!

You mean this is more important to the Sionis Prioratus delegation than Rights and Duties? Never thought I'd see the day! Quick, Johnny-boy, mark the date!

- Dr. B. Castro

[Quelesh]

B. "War crimes" as any of the following committed as part of armed conflict:

2. Murder, torture or other cruel or degrading treatment of prisoners of war or surrendered enemies


This clause is the only reason I am considering a vote against this resolution, and it's more for my personal ideals that killing an enemy during a war, surrendered or not, should not be considered a war crime.

Still may vote for it regardless. Will be a last minute decision probably.

I understand your view, but I would certainly say that killing surrendered prisoners of war, unless they're actually resisting/trying to escape/etc., should be a war crime. POWs don't have to be coddled, but remember that many nations utilize conscription. Not all soldiers volunteered to fight and die for their country. Many front line soldiers/cannon fodder would really rather be anywhere else. And even without conscription, soldiers should have the option of surrendering to save their lives. Killing those who have tossed their weapons aside and raised their hands in the air in surrender bears no resemblance to moral warfare, if there is such a thing.

I hope you will vote in favor, even if this one clause is not what you would prefer.

[Sionis Prioratus]

It is my firm hope this World Assembly will finally receive a magnum opus! Instead of a cloaca maxima, as it has been recently attempted. Godspeed!

Always yours,

You mean this is more important to the Sionis Prioratus delegation than Rights and Duties? Never thought I'd see the day! Quick, Johnny-boy, mark the date!

- Dr. B. Castro

Behave yourself, Your Excellency! Turn the peeve switch off!

Yours in laughing at swan songs that weren't,

[Ainocra]

I concur, this is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to impose a judicial system not of our making on the people of Ainocra, and indeed all of the WA.

Opposed

[Ainocra]

I concur, this is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to impose a judicial system not of our making on the people of Ainocra, and indeed all of the WA.

Opposed

*Felix rose to his feet, looking slightly angry*

Objection to the honourable member's complaint.

Judging by the number of drafts littering the author's desk, I can confidently say that we have all contributed to this resolution, and thus to this new international judiciary which will soon be enacted into law. I must ask the representative to be mindful of the fact that each draft of every new law is scrutinised by members of this House (*calls of "Hear, hear" from various parts of the House*), with improvements, amendments and/or deletions suggested as and when necessary. (*more calls of "hear, hear" by all members*) Therefore, I am astounded and mystified that my Honourable Friend says that this international judiciary is "not of our making". I kindly ask him to explain his reasoning behind this preposterous claim.


*Felix sat down, fuming silently*

The people of Ainocra did not make this, and will not stand idly by while our own tradition of jurisprudence is destroyed by this assembly.

You may spout whatever feel good nonsense you wish ambassador but it does nothing to change the fact that this assembly would be making a grave mistake should it continue in this attempt to supercede the judicial system of every member nation.

[Darkesia]

No. Oh hell no, is more like it.

[Neutonica]

Look, crimes like genocide simply cannot be accounted for on a national level, especially if the killings take place over more than one country. Who would prosecute? Would it be fair to all the victims? An international court needs to be put in place in order to trial the killers on behalf of the entire international community. That is the only way international justice can be meted out.

[Enn]

This proposed resolution places me in something of a dilemma. The Freedom Party-dominated Cabinet will never support a proposal that would so strongly attack Enn's sovereignty in matters of crime and law.
The Centralists and Democratics, on the other hand, like the sound of this. Foreign Minister Sikura, of the Democratic Party, is very much in favour.

Until and unless the Cabinet is able to come to some sort of agreement on this matter, I will ABSTAIN, and continue to observe the debate here. Any pertinent remarks will be conveyed back to Enn.

Angelo Lanerik,
WA Ambassador for Enn

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We stand in opposition to this proposal. We believe it is in fundamental violation of rules the World Assembly has set for itself, namely the prohibition against the creation of a World Police force. Although no force is explicitly mentioned in this legislation, we call attention to this clause:

REQUIRE member states to arrest wanted persons within their jurisdictions and extradite them to the ICC;

This clause would effectively draft the law-enforcement agencies of every WA nation to the service of the ICC. If this is not a "world police", then, what is it?

[OOC: We think this is actually a game-mechanics violation, albeit an indirect one.]

[Karnei Shomron]

I support this, but I think there should be a death penalty.

[Flibbleites]

The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites still does not see why the World Assembly needs to have a judicial system. Both the WA and its predecessor have managed to get along just fine without one in the past and we believe that old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," applies here. Therefore we are opposed to this resolution.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[LowellThomas]

Look, crimes like genocide simply cannot be accounted for on a national level, especially if the killings take place over more than one country. Who would prosecute? Would it be fair to all the victims? An international court needs to be put in place in order to trial the killers on behalf of the entire international community. That is the only way international justice can be meted out.

Aye! Hear, hear, honoured ambassador! I agree with your words of wisdom. You must simply remind me to support you in any future enterprises you may undertake

Felix Quafflington
High Commissioner to the World Assembly

Look, crimes like genocide can be accounted for on the national level, or by nations working together voluntarily. This is too close to a WA police force for us or many others to accept. And besides, why fund a permanent organization when an ad-hoc court for specific cases would be more economical? I yield the floor....

[Glen-Rhodes]

We stand in opposition to this proposal. We believe it is in fundamental violation of rules the World Assembly has set for itself, namely the prohibition against the creation of a World Police force.

The Secretariat has explicitly said that those kinds of 'neutrality rules' could be bypassed by using proxies. The World Assembly can police the world, so long as it's just having nations to their bidding. The only thing the World Assembly can't do is directly command the forces.

The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites still does not see why the World Assembly needs to have a judicial system. Both the WA and its predecessor have managed to get along just fine without one in the past and we believe that old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," applies here. Therefore we are opposed to this resolution.

Because it's the only organization that has the binding, permanent authority to try international-scope cases?...

- Dr. B. Castro

[Lowell Leber]

We stand in opposition to this proposal. We believe it is in fundamental violation of rules the World Assembly has set for itself, namely the prohibition against the creation of a World Police force.

The Secretariat has explicitly said that those kinds of 'neutrality rules' could be bypassed by using proxies. The World Assembly can police the world, so long as it's just having nations to their bidding. The only thing the World Assembly can't do is directly command the forces.

The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites still does not see why the World Assembly needs to have a judicial system. Both the WA and its predecessor have managed to get along just fine without one in the past and we believe that old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," applies here. Therefore we are opposed to this resolution.

Because it's the only organization that has the binding, permanent authority to try international-scope cases?...

- Dr. B. Castro

Look, crimes like genocide can be accounted for on the national level, or by nations working together voluntarily. This is too close to a WA police force for us or many others to accept. And besides, why fund a permanent organization when an ad-hoc court for specific cases would be more economical? I yield the floor....

As the WA rep. for my country stated, why can we not operate under an ad-hoc system for these trials. And how is the WA a binding, permanent authority if it has no forces of its own or nations can simply resign (usually to their benefit)?

OOC-As Stalin once said: "The Pope, how many divisions does he have?"
Without a WA military (which is illegal as we all know) how does the WA possess any binding authority?

[Threlizdun]

I don't even trust the my real country's criminal law system, an international one would experiance major problems. At a national level, jury members or judges may be biased against the individual. In the WA court, they might have come from a country AT WAR with the country of the individual being tried. Predjudices would be even higher at an international level.

[Glen-Rhodes]

OOC-As Stalin once said: "The Pope, how many divisions does he have?"
Without a WA military (which is illegal as we all know) how does the WA possess any binding authority?

OOC: Mandatory compliance. Nations in the World Assembly tend to submit the World Assembly's authority, which is pretty much unlimited theoretically. (In practice, several resolutions limit the authority.) In the end, just as in the real world, the World Assembly can't actually do anything to force compliance. Nations will do whatever they want. But most reasonable nations won't.

[The Palentine]

The Palentine absolutely refuses to support this proposal. While the motives migt be pure, we find that such a bodydoes not act as a detterant, and can easily be subject to abuse. Palentine citizens and or soldiers charged with War Crimes, or artocites will be tried by Palentine courts, or Military Court Martials. Furthermore the Palentine will not comprimise its soverignity and Will Not turn over any Palentine citizens over to this court. Manditory compliance be damned. Any such officials reqiesting admittance to the Palentine to serve a warrant will be politely but firmly refused. Those that enter the country shall be charged with illegal entry and attempted kidnapping, and will be prosecuted in Palentine Courts.
Excelsior,
Jhessan Spaulding
Co-Empress of the Palentine

[Manticore Reborn]

The Palentine absolutely refuses to support this proposal. While the motives migt be pure, we find that such a bodydoes not act as a detterant, and can easily be subject to abuse. Palentine citizens and or soldiers charged with War Crimes, or artocites will be tried by Palentine courts, or Military Court Martials. Furthermore the Palentine will not comprimise its soverignity and Will Not turn over any Palentine citizens over to this court. Manditory compliance be damned. Any such officials reqiesting admittance to the Palentine to serve a warrant will be politely but firmly refused. Those that enter the country shall be charged with illegal entry and attempted kidnapping, and will be prosecuted in Palentine Courts.
Excelsior,
Jhessan Spaulding
Co-Empress of the Palentine

The ambassador from the Kingdom of Manticore Reborn is unsure of the Co-Empress of the Palentine fully understand this proposal. Specifically the authorization clause as follows:

AUTHORIZE the ICC to issue arrest warrants for any person ("wanted person") suspected of these crimes if their home jurisdiction refuses to bring them to justice, unless an extant WA resolution requires they be tried elsewhere;

As one can see from the highlighted text, this proposal would only go into effect if the accused's home nation refused to bring them to justice.
In addition, this proposal does not allow officials just walk into any nation and arrest someone. Nations are urged to use "all legal and peaceful means" to have the accused extradited to a nation that will allow them to be tried before the ICC.

[Denecaep]

There seems to be such great potential for this, so I must ask; does anyone here think that the ICC could play into roleplaying? To what extent? Would there be a roleplayed ICC, or would it just be an assumed entity?

[Ainocra]

ooc

assumed entitly, gnomes etc

[Unibot]

There seems to be such great potential for this, so I must ask; does anyone here think that the ICC could play into roleplaying? To what extent? Would there be a roleplayed ICC, or would it just be an assumed entity?

OOC: I wouldn't mind running some roleplays based around it.. but of course, anything we did couldn't be considered canon.

[Southrons United]

No way! that interferes with the Nation's sovereignty no matter how you want to go on about the crimes that don't matter a sovereign nation is a sovereign nation to do as it please, the WA is a guideline to how it should do something not take it from them!

[Masucciania]

Fellow Delegates of the General Assembly:

The Confederacy of Masucciania rises in opposition to this proposed resolution.

While the Masuccianian Parliament wholeheartedly agrees with the principle that there indeed should be an International Criminal Court (ICC) to try international criminals who have escaped justice, there are too actions which, according to various provisions in this resolution, constitute either war crimes or crimes against humanity. The Confederacy does not endorse the overwhelming majority of such actions, but, as usual, it appears as though the World Assembly is attempting to control the actions of sovereign governments of the various sovereign states which form the WA. Through this process, state sovereignty is even further eroded than it already is.

Therefore, the Masuccianian delegation shall vote and urge the delegations of other member states of the General Assembly to vote "AGAINST" this proposed resolution.

The Confederacy of Masucciania respectfully yields the floor,

[The Asylum Manager]

The Ambassador to TAM pushes the 'FOR'-button on his desk but reserves the right to change that whilst following the debate.

[Denecaep]

There seems to be such great potential for this, so I must ask; does anyone here think that the ICC could play into roleplaying? To what extent? Would there be a roleplayed ICC, or would it just be an assumed entity?

OOC: I wouldn't mind running some roleplays based around it.. but of course, anything we did couldn't be considered canon.

Yeah... exactly.