[PASSED] Repeal "Condemn the Pacific"

[Flanderlion]

perceived events the NPO may have not even been involved in.

The NPO already admitted it's involvement in an official statement from your Emperor:

The Pacific hereby acknowledges in full the complicity of its government in the overthrow of the People's Republic of Lazarus in April 2015. The then-Regent of the Pacific Order undertook a systemic dismantling of the PRL with its associate, former Delegate of Lazarus, Stujenske, with the aim of creating a satellite organization known now as the New Lazarene Order.

The structure of our government at that time granted the Regent wide-ranging authority and it is therefore undeniable that even without the Emperor's blessing, knowledge, or consent, the actions of the Regent nation in this instance represented action on the part of the Pacific Order and the Pacific as a whole.

Wasn't referring to Lazarus here, but if I'm apologising for things, I generally apologise fully (including things I didn't do) rather than quibble over the bits that I did or didn't do. That's generally because I'm trying to move on for the future, rather than getting the person to focus on the past thing that I needed to apologise for.

[Sedgistan]

No you did not. You have not addressed the North Pacific, South Pacific, and initial coup which put the NPO in charge at all.

Repeals do not have to address all of the original resolution's content.

Confirmed. They need to address some of the content, but are not required to address it all.

[Wrapper]

Observing that there are very tyrannical regions and nations that have not been condemned my this august body, thus canceling the argument made in SC#177

Ummmm, oops?

[We Are Not the NSA]

Observing that there are very tyrannical regions and nations that have not been condemned my this august body, thus canceling the argument made in SC#177

Ummmm, oops?

Oh no, an R4 violation!

[Canton Empire]

Observing that there are very tyrannical regions and nations that have not been condemned my this august body, thus canceling the argument made in SC#177

Ummmm, oops?

Well, I must say, my body is quite august.

It probably happened because I copy spliced part of this clause

[Canton Empire]

How was the coup NOT sanctioned by the NPO? NPO forces from CN SWARMED Lazarus to prop up Stujenske. Not to mention on the PRL forum when they started, Pergamon said AND I QUOTE "I made my decision in October." which leads me to believe that the NPO not only sanctioned the coup, but PLANNED IT six months in advance. I'm sure there's a good explanation though because we all know the NPO to be trustworthy, honest and respectful of the sovereignty of ALL GCRs, right?

CN as in Cyber Nations?

[Pierconium]

How was the coup NOT sanctioned by the NPO? NPO forces from CN SWARMED Lazarus to prop up Stujenske. Not to mention on the PRL forum when they started, Pergamon said AND I QUOTE "I made my decision in October." which leads me to believe that the NPO not only sanctioned the coup, but PLANNED IT six months in advance. I'm sure there's a good explanation though because we all know the NPO to be trustworthy, honest and respectful of the sovereignty of ALL GCRs, right?

First, your definition of 'swarmed' may need to be revised. Four or five nations does not generally bring the term swarm to mind.

Second, no, the coup that Feux and Stu decided upon during a drugged induced high for laughs was not planned six months in advance.

Third, I am trustworthy and honest. I am also generally respectful, although I do occasionally make exception for those that seem to go out of their way to oppose us, even as the rest of the world is trying to move on.

[The Church of Satan]

Never said you specifically... >_>

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

How was the coup NOT sanctioned by the NPO? NPO forces from CN SWARMED Lazarus to prop up Stujenske. Not to mention on the PRL forum when they started, Pergamon said AND I QUOTE "I made my decision in October." which leads me to believe that the NPO not only sanctioned the coup, but PLANNED IT six months in advance. I'm sure there's a good explanation though because we all know the NPO to be trustworthy, honest and respectful of the sovereignty of ALL GCRs, right?

First, your definition of 'swarmed' may need to be revised. Four or five nations does not generally bring the term swarm to mind.

Do you mean that of the 30 odd nations that came in to support Stujenske, only four or five were from CyberNations?

How do you know?

[Pierconium]

First, your definition of 'swarmed' may need to be revised. Four or five nations does not generally bring the term swarm to mind.

Do you mean that of the 30 odd nations that came in to support Stujenske, only four or five were from CyberNations?

How do you know?

Four or five would actually be a stretch. That other place has been struggling for a while, from what I understand, and getting active commitment over here would be difficult.

I base that number on what I was told when I returned from leave and found that everything had gone to crap while I was away.

[Pierconium]

Never said you specifically... >_>

That is a matter of interpretation. I speak for the Pacific. Actions that are taken under the Pacific's banner now reflect directly on me personally. Likewise, statements that express a sentiment as fact in the present regarding my region's trustworthiness or honesty reflect directly upon me.

[The Church of Satan]

I don't believe the NPO's past actions reflect on you personally. They certainly reflect on Krull and the NPO itself. I do believe your continued desire to harbor a criminal convicted for their crucial role in the Lazarus coup reflects on the NPO, it's selective policy of GCR sovereignty and the insincerity of it's apologies to Lazarus.

[Capyton]

No sense penalizing them any further. I'll support it.

[Pierconium]

I don't believe the NPO's past actions reflect on you personally. They certainly reflect on Krull and the NPO itself. I do believe your continued desire to harbor a criminal convicted for their crucial role in the Lazarus coup reflects on the NPO, it's selective policy of GCR sovereignty and the insincerity of it's apologies to Lazarus.

So, a nation begins their career in NS and joins a community, rising to the position of Vice Delegate after months of work. It is then approached by the Delegate and some other influential parties in the region and asked if it wants to keep its position after those others have staged a spur of the moment coup. Not being a cosmopolitan nation, like so many others these days, the nation decides to stick with his region, regardless of the governmental situation.

Skip ahead fourteen months, a lifetime in typical NS politics, the coup has failed, and that nation has been driven from its community. The nation placed its trust in the wrong parties and has suffered for it, to the point of being banished from its longtime home.

That nation has now found a new home, admittedly in the region responsible for the initial coup, but now under new leadership and with a new direction. The nation has been active in the new community and does not interact with the old at all.

So, why would that nation need to be expelled from the new community because of misguided activity from over a year ago when those actions have no bearing on current reality?

How does the Pacific allowing Pergamon to remain as a valuable contributor to our community harm Lazarus at all? How does our willingness to see past the possible errors of the distant past make our current political position insincere? How does his existence influence GCR sovereignty?

How many nations here have made an error in judgment in the past? Do they all require indefinite punishment and exclusion?

I don't believe in that sort of NS experience.

[Kaiser Adolf]

Fully support for this. Try to be more forgiving will ya.

[The Church of Satan]

By allowing Pergamon to remain part of your community for his efforts in trashing another GCR, the NPO is condoning such actions. Actions which are a blight on the pursuit of GCR sovereignty.

[Canton Empire]

By allowing Pergamon to remain part of your community for his efforts in trashing another GCR, the NPO is condoning such actions. Actions which are a blight on the pursuit of GCR sovereignty.

Its not condoning, it's more like granting political asylum

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

Observing that there are very tyrannical regions and nations that have not been condemned my this august body, thus canceling the argument made in SC#177

Ummmm, oops?

With the proposal before this one getting to quorum already, you have time if you want to withdraw this and correct this glaring typo. I'll understand if you don't want to, being this close to quorum yourself, but I won't be voting in favor of something with such a blatant error. The SC has standards, you know!

[Canton Empire]

Ummmm, oops?

With the proposal before this one getting to quorum already, you have time if you want to withdraw this and correct this glaring typo. I'll understand if you don't want to, being this close to quorum yourself, but I won't be voting in favor of something with such a blatant error. The SC has standards, you know!

Well, I used TG stamps to get this through, and I really don't want to waste the ones that are remaining

[Pierconium]

By allowing Pergamon to remain part of your community for his efforts in trashing another GCR, the NPO is condoning such actions. Actions which are a blight on the pursuit of GCR sovereignty.

I assume Lazarus would cut relations with every other GCR that allows nations that have couped other regions if you had your way as well? I seem to recall you being moderately active once upon a time in TNP. There are lots of (reformed?) coupers there.

A coup does not automatically equate to a violation of GCR sovereignty. And all parties involved may not be acting on behalf of outside forces. Internal coups can be, and historically have been in some notable instances, supportive of GCR sovereignty.

[Solorni]

I fully support this.

[The Church of Satan]

I may have once held citizenship in TNP but I was never active there.

[Pierconium]

I may have once held citizenship in TNP but I was never active there.

That isn't the point, which I believe you know.

The question, again, is do you support the idea of Lazarus closing relations with all GCRs that allow former participants in GCR coups into their community and/or government?

[The Agnostic Collective]

A coup does not automatically equate to a violation of GCR sovereignty. And all parties involved may not be acting on behalf of outside forces. Internal coups can be, and historically have been in some notable instances, supportive of GCR sovereignty.

Osiris would be a prime example

[Pierconium]

A coup does not automatically equate to a violation of GCR sovereignty. And all parties involved may not be acting on behalf of outside forces. Internal coups can be, and historically have been in some notable instances, supportive of GCR sovereignty.

Osiris would be a prime example

I was thinking a bit closer to home.

Or possibly the removal of ADN influence in TNP and TWP a decade or so ago.