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by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:57 pm
by Mallorea and Riva » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:59 pm
Imperium Anglorum wrote:We're also back here again. I should have a query in Moderation up later today.
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:02 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:02 pm
United Massachusetts wrote:Isn't this a metagaming violation?
Imperium Anglorum wrote:1. Establishes and empowers the WACC, hereafter referred to as the Compliance Commission, to conduct investigations on matters of national compliance with resolutions and thereby establish an impartial and objective factual basis for future claims of jurisdiction and trials;
2. Requires both civilian police and military police to create a liaison point with the Commission to provide evidence, as presentable, on the subject of war crimes in particular and in noncompliance in general; demands that documents requested by the Commission not be destroyed and handed over promptly so long as state security permits;
3. Strongly encourages nations to cooperate with the Compliance Commission on those matters relevant to their security and the security of other nations; mandates that the Compliance Commission inform nations of the passage of legislation or enactment of administrative policies relevant to their nation and recommend policies to those ends;
4. Permits the Compliance Commission, in specific investigations, to accept information and data which are presented by non-member nations and nations not party to that investigation; allows the Compliance Commission to request the assistance of nearby nations such to adequately assess the nature and fact bases of such non-compliance under investigation;
5. Clarifies that the World Assembly Compliance Commission is a truth-seeking commission and has no ability to enforce or compel warrants, subpoenas, or judicial action on any nation, its leaders, or its citizens;
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:15 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Imperium Anglorum wrote:1. Establishes and empowers the WACC, hereafter referred to as the Compliance Commission, to conduct investigations on matters of national compliance with resolutions and thereby establish an impartial and objective factual basis for future claims of jurisdiction and trials;
OOC: I really think you need to find a different name. It will evaporate any concerns about Metagaming.2. Requires both civilian police and military police to create a liaison point with the Commission to provide evidence, as presentable, on the subject of war crimes in particular and in noncompliance in general; demands that documents requested by the Commission not be destroyed and handed over promptly so long as state security permits;
"Civilian police and military police as in the individuals? I know you don't mean that, but you should add the term "authorities" or something analogous to clear that up."3. Strongly encourages nations to cooperate with the Compliance Commission on those matters relevant to their security and the security of other nations; mandates that the Compliance Commission inform nations of the passage of legislation or enactment of administrative policies relevant to their nation and recommend policies to those ends;
"This should be two clauses, or the last half should be turned into a subordinate clause. This reads awkwardly."4. Permits the Compliance Commission, in specific investigations, to accept information and data which are presented by non-member nations and nations not party to that investigation; allows the Compliance Commission to request the assistance of nearby nations such to adequately assess the nature and fact bases of such non-compliance under investigation;
"Same concern. Swap out the highlighted semicolon with "and", and you're golden. The break of a semicolon in this fashion is really best suited to a new clause."5. Clarifies that the World Assembly Compliance Commission is a truth-seeking commission and has no ability to enforce or compel warrants, subpoenas, or judicial action on any nation, its leaders, or its citizens;
"We really need one of those, even if it is just tasked with determining something specific. That isn't, however, a criticism of this proposal."
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:14 pm
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:10 pm
Hannasea wrote:OOC: The moderators have already been fairly clear that creating a Compliance Commission would be MetaGaming. I am not sure what sort of "discussion" is really possible, given that.
by Hannasea » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:27 pm
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Hannasea wrote:OOC: The moderators have already been fairly clear that creating a Compliance Commission would be MetaGaming. I am not sure what sort of "discussion" is really possible, given that.
Considering that this entire thread (well, except the housecat portions, :hug: ) is about whether that is true or not,
Imperium Anglorum wrote:with significant support primarily on why it wouldn't be (except a now-DOS player), I don't think the jury is back on this one.
by Wrapper » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:49 pm
Hannasea wrote:OOC: The moderators have already been fairly clear that creating a Compliance Commission would be MetaGaming. I am not sure what sort of "discussion" is really possible, given that.
by Wrapper » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:02 pm
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:21 pm
Hannasea wrote:OOC: It's listed in the Rulings Archive. Is that no longer being made use of - or was it just not copied across to the current, actively used version?
by Wrapper » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:50 pm
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Wrapper wrote:With that in mind, and keeping in mind that GAR#2 mandates each nation's compliance with WA laws, how is this resolution any different from Reduction of Noncompliance, which was ruled illegal?
URGES member nations to impose sanctions against nations found guilty of noncompliance as long as they continue to be noncompliant,
ENCOURAGES member nations found guilty of noncompliance to punish those within their government responsible for noncompliance,
MANDATES that noncompliant nations be given condemnations, defined for the purposes of this resolution as parking tickets, and which are to be printed on non-biodegradable paper,
REAFFIRMS that full compliance is a goal and is therefore required.
by Wrapper » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:56 am
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:08 am
Wrapper wrote:Okay, not a ruling, but I do see where you're coming from, as far as Metagaming/Game Mechanics. I'm still struggling with a couple things here. One I'll put in an IC post later, since it has nothing to do with legality (spoiler alert: this is pretty damn close to a feel-good, do-nothing proposal). Two, I'm still not sold that this somehow doesn't contradict GAR#2. Nations are mandated to comply with international law; their domestic laws are appropriately changed, and in-game stats reflect those changes. So... where is the non-compliance on the national level?
Before you invoke something like ICC being legal, keep in mind that you're specifically looking at national compliance, and not individual lawbreakers.
by Wrapper » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:08 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:Wrapper wrote:Okay, not a ruling, but I do see where you're coming from, as far as Metagaming/Game Mechanics. I'm still struggling with a couple things here. One I'll put in an IC post later, since it has nothing to do with legality (spoiler alert: this is pretty damn close to a feel-good, do-nothing proposal). Two, I'm still not sold that this somehow doesn't contradict GAR#2. Nations are mandated to comply with international law; their domestic laws are appropriately changed, and in-game stats reflect those changes. So... where is the non-compliance on the national level?
Before you invoke something like ICC being legal, keep in mind that you're specifically looking at national compliance, and not individual lawbreakers.
Ooc: just to clarify, you are referring to a systematic instance of noncompliance that GAR#2 bans? As in "in Doomtopia, we execute gays and set manatees on fire with leaded fuel!!!", and doesn't deal with "oh my god, my neighbor set a manatee on fire!"?
by The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:10 am
by States of Glory WA Office » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:41 pm
by Imperium Anglorum » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:47 pm
Wrapper wrote:Okay, not a ruling, but I do see where you're coming from, as far as Metagaming/Game Mechanics. I'm still struggling with a couple things here. One I'll put in an IC post later, since it has nothing to do with legality (spoiler alert: this is pretty damn close to a feel-good, do-nothing proposal). Two, I'm still not sold that this somehow doesn't contradict GAR#2. Nations are mandated to comply with international law; their domestic laws are appropriately changed, and in-game stats reflect those changes. So... where is the non-compliance on the national level?
States of Glory WA Office wrote:You want us to allow bureaucrats into our nation to assess whether or not our laws are in compliance with WA law
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Let us overlook the fact that, with the exception of the Kennyites, we already allow gnomes to assess our compliance with every passed resolution.
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Instead, let us focus on the fact that there is no clause stating that these bureaucrats must make their findings public, so it's entirely possible for a nation to be non-compliant with only the WA being aware of the situation, although they can't do anything about it.
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Basically, this proposal is the status quo but with added paperwork. I'm open to the idea of further WA bureaucracy if it serves a legitimate use, but this is quite frankly ridiculous, Ambassador. For now, we stand opposed."
by Hannasea » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:30 am
by Imperium Anglorum » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:53 am
Hannasea wrote:OOC: Again, it doesn't really matter whether or not non-compliance is an interesting idea. The moderators have stated that mentioning the possibility of non-compliance makes a proposal illegal. The first line of this proposal mentions the possibility of non-compliance. So it's illegal, and that's really all there is to say about it.
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