[PASSED] Repeal "Condemn DEN"

[We Are Not the NSA]

Just confirming that overt references to moderators and the rules are Rule 4 violations. Those seem to have been edited out, since I don't see them in the OP.

Thank you Sedge. o7

[Topid]

Did the author of "Condemn DEN" send out campaign telegrams on his own? Just curious.

[Ramaeus]

You may be right about grammatical errors, but significant and repeated misspellings occur in this condemnation and are far less common in other resolutions that are still on the books.

Experience tells me that argument doesn't work with the voters. It's another argument to add, sure, but it shouldn't be your main argument. Something could be poorly written, still manage to be factual, and craft a good argument. That means, at most, it should only be a small part of the proposal. Not the main component.

This isn't just a technicality. DEN has existed in one form or another on and off for twelve years, and the condemnation itself makes clear by condemning DEN for past activities that DEN is more than TBR 2.0.

Oh, I won't dispute that. They certainly are different. But NSA's job isn't to convince me. He needs to convince the voters, some of whom are evidently convinced that TBR = DEN. And that's ignoring the fact that NSA is a member of DEN, which makes that distinction seem like revisionist history, or at least thoroughly unconvincing coming from a member of DEN.

[The Stalker]

Support.

lol who didn't see this insta repeal coming from a mile away?

[We Are Not the NSA]

You may be right about grammatical errors, but significant and repeated misspellings occur in this condemnation and are far less common in other resolutions that are still on the books.

Experience tells me that argument doesn't work with the voters. It's another argument to add, sure, but it shouldn't be your main argument. Something could be poorly written, still manage to be factual, and craft a good argument. That means, at most, it should only be a small part of the proposal. Not the main component.

This isn't just a technicality. DEN has existed in one form or another on and off for twelve years, and the condemnation itself makes clear by condemning DEN for past activities that DEN is more than TBR 2.0.

Oh, I won't dispute that. They certainly are different. But NSA's job isn't to convince me. He needs to convince the voters, some of whom are evidently convinced that TBR = DEN. And that's ignoring the fact that NSA is a member of DEN, which makes that distinction seem like revisionist history, or at least thoroughly unconvincing coming from a member of DEN.

Ram, I appreciate your honesty, and I would be more than happy to revise this proposal with any edits or supplementary arguments you have, but at the moment the only suggestions you have made seem to have been removing all of the content I already have.

Did the author of "Condemn DEN" send out campaign telegrams on his own? Just curious.

I'm actually unsure if he did. I know that someone sent a telegram to at least one Delegate, because it was posted about on an rmb, but I don't know if it was an actual campaign or not. :\

[Dark Commander]

Did the author of "Condemn DEN" send out campaign telegrams on his own? Just curious.

I'm actually unsure if he did. I know that someone sent a telegram to at least one Delegate, because it was posted about on an rmb, but I don't know if it was an actual campaign or not. :\

As WA Delegate, I didn't receive anything.

[Syrixia]

I hate it when people try to repeal condemnations or commendations based on little errors like these. The point of the original condemnation still stands. Instead of being Grammar Nazis, DEN should accept their atrocities and take the black and red badge.

[Ayvari]

I hate it when people try to repeal condemnations or commendations based on little errors like these. The point of the original condemnation still stands. Instead of being Grammar Nazis, DEN should accept their atrocities and take the black and red badge.

Not when the proposal is so...lacking. It's amazing how people support such a poorly composed proposal just because they have issues with the target. And they [DEN] don't accept their "atrocities" - they embrace them wholeheartedly.

[We Are Not the NSA]

I hate it when people try to repeal condemnations or commendations based on little errors like these. The point of the original condemnation still stands. Instead of being Grammar Nazis, DEN should accept their atrocities and take the black and red badge.

"2 days 6 hours ago: Syrixia voted against the World Assembly Resolution "Condemn DEN"."
Considering that you clearly did not agree with the condemnation, I'm confused as to why you would now be arguing for it. Furthermore, as I state in the OP, DEN does not care whether this resolution stands or not, but I do. Now if I was complaining about one or two errors, I would agree that I'm being a grammar nazi, however this condemnation is riddled with grammatical and spelling errors, and I am not the only person who has complained about it.

I am in the process of redrafting, and I am attempting to address the concerns regarding the emphasis on the grammatical errors. A new draft will be posted shortly.

Edit: Uh, never mind on that last part. I made a huge mistake which nullifies the new argument I was integrating into the repeal, so I'm back to where I was 2 hours ago.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Alrighty then. I've finished a new draft. An uninterrupted version is being posted in the OP, but I have some comments I need to make on certain clauses, so I'll post that down here.

The Security Council,

Noting the acts of aggression committed by the DEN war machine against innocent regions and recognizing it as a threat,

Recalling that raider groups have used the name DEN since ancient times, and many incarnations of the region have existed,

Recognizing that the current incarnation of DEN was spawned in the wake of the destruction of the Black Riders, but remained a separate entity from The Black Riders, having different leadership, attracting many new raiders who had never been members of the Black Riders, and employing different, less mechanical strategies,

Disappointed that SC #187 falls for the common misconception that the two raider groups are one and the same, when they are in fact quite different from one another,

Shocked that SC # 187 insinuates that DEN “destroys unique cultures and communities” throughout NationStates, yet fails to provide even a single example of a refound to support this claim,

Reminded that DEN has not refounded a native region by force since its revival, excluding the raider region Power Is Rising, which negates the second clause completely as none of the listed raids caused regional destruction on any scale,

Skeptical regarding the statement that DEN conducted “The invasion of the region of Christmas” considering the fact that there is no evidence that DEN has ever led an occupation of the region. The only recorded DEN involvement in any occupation of Christmas was the reinforcement of a 2012 raid conducted by Asgard. SC #187 makes it out as if DEN invaded the region, when in reality, DEN was one of four raider groups who merely reinforced a fifth group’s invasion,

Okay, this was the location of the "huge mistake" I mentioned earlier. I originally confused the clauses for the invasions of Catholic and Christmas, so the clause I came up with was awesome in my mind, but was complete nonsense in reality. In addition to not making sense, there was also an R4 violation. (in case it isn't clear, I've fixed it since then)

Now, I was unable to find the DEN invasion of Christmas mentioned in the condemnation, and I checked both the forums and Christmas's wfe history. However, since I wasn't around at this time, it is entirely possible that there was a DEN led occupation of Christmas that I am simply unaware of, so if any older players read this clause and say "what is NSA even talking about right now?" pleeeeeease tell me.

Confused as to why DEN’s raid of Paradoxia goes completely unmentioned throughout SC# 187, despite being one of the modern DEN’s most controversial raids,

Appalled by the simply atrocious number of spelling, grammar, and syntax errors throughout the proposal, including:

• The use of “appaled” instead of “appalled” in the third clause,
  
• The inconsistent use of punctuation marks throughout the proposal,
  
• The statement that the invasion of Catholic occurred in “the 2012”,
  
• The multiple uses of the phrase “on Nationstates” in clauses two and five, which a member of the Secretariat has described as being “grammatically incorrect”,
  
• And the horrific half thought, “even though the atrocities they have done to many regions on Nationstates” in the sixth clause,

Asserting that the language used throughout SC #187 is not fit to be used in a book report, let alone in an international law,

Exasperated by the concept that there were raiding “strategies and tactics that condemned the Black Riders”, when it is a well known fact that it was the Security Council that condemned The Black Riders,

Realizing that the condemnation was publicly dismissed by many Security Council veterans as being hastily submitted and poorly written,

Remembering that the condemnation of DEN is not a time sensitive issue, and should be done with at least enough care as to not make basic spelling and grammar mistakes, as well as to avoid major factual errors,

Concluding that Security Council Resolution #187 “Condemn DEN” is not fit for use by this esteemed body,

Hereby Repeals SC #187: Condemn DEN.

Considering how much I have changed the proposal, I have decided to wait a little longer to submit it. I tried to change things up so the grammar stuff is still important, but not the back bone of the proposal.

EDIT: Forgot to ask this: The condemnation mentions "the occupation of The Atheist Empire". The Atheist Empire was never occupied by anyone, it was Atheist Empire that was occupied. My question is whether people think that is too much of a technicality (considering that there are no region tags around it) to merit its own clause or not?

[Derpsadaslkkf]

Are you serious? Putting coding and grammar mistakes? I'm "appalled" by that much alone! That is the stupidest thing to put in a REPEAL of all things! Why even put it in there?

[Dark Commander]

Are you serious? Putting coding and grammar mistakes? I'm "appalled" by that much alone! That is the stupidest thing to put in a REPEAL of all things! Why even put it in there?

You obviously have not seen many repeals.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Are you serious? Putting coding and grammar mistakes? I'm "appalled" by that much alone! That is the stupidest thing to put in a REPEAL of all things! Why even put it in there?

After reading through your repeal, I don't think that the grammar mistakes are the only thing my repeal includes and yours doesn't that annoys you, because I see something else missing from yours: facts.

I would rather rely on hard facts and tangible criticisms than scare tactics to get this through.

[Yuledon]

It's not unreasonable to expect the Security Council to uphold the same standards of writing as middle school teachers.

Support.

[Nohbdy]

Submitted.

[Aenglaland]

Full support. It's a bit surprising how "Condemn DEN" managed to pass... Do people just vote "For" because DEN sounds like "the bad dudes", so anything to punish them, even a poorly written resolution, is acceptable? Because it really looks that way

[Consular]

Pretty much, yeah. Anything that basically says 'zomg raiders' tends to pass. :/

[We Are Not the NSA]

I am working on a new draft and new campaign strategy, and I will post the changes (all of which are minor) shortly.

[Nohbdy]

Submitted. Link: http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vie ... 1450819338

[The Rouge Christmas State]

Another attempt I see, and no there was no campaign. I'm "appalled" you would try again.

[Wrapper]

Another attempt I see, and no there was no campaign. I'm "appalled" you would try again.

And yet you are still "rouge" with embarrassment I see.

[The Rouge Christmas State]

Another attempt I see, and no there was no campaign. I'm "appalled" you would try again.

And yet you are still "rouge" with embarrassment I see.

Wow

[Consular]

Damnit NSA, send some campaign telegrams. Chester offered to help, otherwise my stamps are at your disposal as well.

[Tim-Opolis]

Damnit NSA, send some campaign telegrams. Chester offered to help, otherwise my stamps are at your disposal as well.

Sorry, was late to the party as I was out and about.

I think you'll notice all the Delegates should have a lovely Campaign Telegram now

[Tim-Opolis]

Damn, probably picked a poor time to submit.

After New Years, likely, may be a better time to re-submit, just looking at how many Delegates have even read the "please approve it" TG (less than 42%)