[DEFEATED] Condemn The Red Fleet

[Wrapper]

They did? I didn't see anything, except the delegate TG asking for approval three days ago.

Oh, that's what I meant. I guess I only saw it after it went to vote.

Get your fucking facts straight.

[Wallenburg]

Oh, that's what I meant. I guess I only saw it after it went to vote.

Get your fucking facts straight.

Good thing I edited.

[The New Fandom Republic]

How the heck are people still supporting this? There is nothing to support this. No conversations from the "victims" of the region that is being condemned. No Records of them admiting it. Nothing is backing this up. NOTHING.

[We Are Not the NSA]

How the heck are people still supporting this? There is nothing to support this. No conversations from the "victims" of the region that is being condemned. No Records of them admiting it. Nothing is backing this up. NOTHING.

That is something I've been wondering myself. As far as I've heard, there hasn't been any word from any of the "victims" or the TRF, which is weird because based off the proposal you'd think that there are a lot of them. And I'm not denying that victims exist, because they most certainly do, it's just weird that they haven't been vocal.

[Daburuetchi]

1. They identify as a Luxemburgist and communist sympathizer in their sig.
2. They reside in The Internationale.
3. The discussion in the RMB that I've been following for weeks alludes to everything but fascism.
4. Let them speak for themselves.

I get it though. You're just following orders and trying your best to turn lefties against each other.

You are very misguided.

Well I have spoken to you in the past in a civil manner out of curiosity and because unlike most fascist you weren't ill mannered and wanted to talk. But i'm under no illusions and quite clearly see that fascism is a rational instrument for working class domination and the preservation of the capitalist system. Even if fascism was "not for export" as Benito Mussolini initially claimed it's imperialism tendency and hostility toward working class interest make it incompatible with communism and a target of attack by communist.

[The New Fandom Republic]

How the heck are people still supporting this? There is nothing to support this. No conversations from the "victims" of the region that is being condemned. No Records of them admiting it. Nothing is backing this up. NOTHING.

That is something I've been wondering myself. As far as I've heard, there hasn't been any word from any of the "victims" or the TRF, which is weird because based off the proposal you'd think that there are a lot of them. And I'm not denying that victims exist, because they most certainly do, it's just weird that they haven't been vocal.

It's very weird that no one is speaking up.....I am starting to think this proposal is bait...

[Eldridge Crossings]

I'm sorry but the proposal is very vague. I look at both parties and I able to find this proposal inconclusive/incomplete. Im against.

[Rusozak]

The majority of politically themed regions actually, not nations. A lot of those regions could just be created by the puppets of nations in The Red Fleet.

I just wanna condemn them for invading non-fascist regions and non-invader regions.

Actually considering the fact you can only have one WA nation at a time, and that 71% of WA nations voted "for" Commend TRF, that means a majority of players in fact support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist.

Irrelevant. The vote results don't mean all those supporters are communist or communist-sympathizing. If the communists want to trick themselves into thinking that, well, do whatever you want.

[The Silver Sentinel]

The majority of politically themed regions actually, not nations. A lot of those regions could just be created by the puppets of nations in The Red Fleet.

I just wanna condemn them for invading non-fascist regions and non-invader regions.

Actually considering the fact you can only have one WA nation at a time, and that 71% of WA nations voted "for" Commend TRF, that means a majority of players in fact support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist.

I am sure the stack by Mouse and Ram, right out of the gates had nothing to do with it. /nods

They did? I didn't see anything, except the delegate TG asking for approval three days ago.

Oh, that's what I meant. I guess I only saw it after it went to vote.

Well... That was embarrassing. I guess people should get their facts straight before loading up the flamethrower.

[Godless Munky]

Actually considering the fact you can only have one WA nation at a time, and that 71% of WA nations voted "for" Commend TRF, that means a majority of players in fact support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist.

Irrelevant. The vote results don't mean all those supporters are communist or communist-sympathizing. If the communists want to trick themselves into thinking that, well, do whatever you want.

That isn't at all what NSA said. Read it again, slowly this time.

[Misley]

Well... That was embarrassing. I guess people should get their facts straight before loading up the flamethrower.

You're the last person who should be lecturing people on getting facts straight before posting, bud.

[King Nephmir II]

Stalinism.

Embarrassing yourself by confidently asserting incorrect information about TRF as usual, huh Chester?

The Red Fleet does not take a specific political stance.

...

The Red Fleet opposes capitalism... and fascism.

Looks like a political stance to me.

[Misley]

Embarrassing yourself by confidently asserting incorrect information about TRF as usual, huh Chester?

The Red Fleet does not take a specific political stance.

...

The Red Fleet opposes capitalism... and fascism.

Looks like a political stance to me.

It's not a specific political stance. "Stalinism" (which is just a pejorative term for Marxism-Leninism) is a specific political stance, which is not embraced or endorsed by the Fleet.

Opposition to capitalism and fascism is a stance shared by many strains of leftist thought, from anarchism to Leninism. Our sailors subscribe to many different leftist ideologies, so as a Fleet we do not specifically align to any single one.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Actually considering the fact you can only have one WA nation at a time, and that 71% of WA nations voted "for" Commend TRF, that means a majority of players in fact support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist.

Irrelevant. The vote results don't mean all those supporters are communist or communist-sympathizing. If the communists want to trick themselves into thinking that, well, do whatever you want.

First, I'm not a communist, or communist affiliated. I just agree with them more that the fascists. Second, I didn't say that voting "for" means they're "communist or communist-sympathizing". I said that voting "for" means that people "support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist".

Support=/=Communist
antifascist=/=Communist affiliated

Actually considering the fact you can only have one WA nation at a time, and that 71% of WA nations voted "for" Commend TRF, that means a majority of players in fact support them, or at the very least are anti-fascist.

I am sure the stack by Mouse and Ram, right out of the gates had nothing to do with it. /nods

True.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Well... That was embarrassing. I guess people should get their facts straight before loading up the flamethrower.

You're the last person who should be lecturing people on getting facts straight before posting, bud.

Far be it for me to post a common fact. I suggest we simply ignore each other as we are never going to agree on anything, and I for one am tired of you being wrong all the time.

[Cora II]

How the heck are people still supporting this? There is nothing to support this. No conversations from the "victims" of the region that is being condemned. No Records of them admiting it. Nothing is backing this up. NOTHING.

The Red Fleet is not anyhow depending organisationally to region named The Red Fleet. Difficult to understand?

- Retired Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet (organisation), Ex-Founder of old The Red Fleet (region) / Shadow of P.

(Making this note because lately TBR had similar kind hulabaloos because somebody had difficulties to understand that in R/D GP, an organisation and the organisation's region(s) are two qualitative different things. The Organisation can survive without a region, but the region cannot survive without an organisation. WA-SC C&C proposals can hardly ever find right targets in R/D sphere. Regions itself aren't ever active subjects in R/D. Targeted are at best symbolic values.)

[The Silver Sentinel]

How the heck are people still supporting this? There is nothing to support this. No conversations from the "victims" of the region that is being condemned. No Records of them admiting it. Nothing is backing this up. NOTHING.

The Red Fleet is not anyhow depending organisationally to region named The Red Fleet. Difficult to understand?

- Retired Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet (organisation), Ex-Founder of old The Red Fleet (region) / Shadow of P.

(Making this note because lately TBR had similar kind hulabaloos because somebody had difficulties to understand that in R/D GP, an organisation and the organisation's region(s) are two qualitative different things. The Organisation can survive without a region, but the region cannot survive without an organisation. WA-SC C&C proposals can hardly ever find right targets in R/D sphere. Regions itself aren't ever active subjects in R/D. Targeted are at best symbolic values.)

So I assume you heartily support repealing the commendation of The Red Fleet as well? By your logic, it is a meaningless badge.

[Cora II]

So I assume you heartily support repealing the commendation of The Red Fleet as well? By your logic, it is a meaningless badge.

No. TRF's organisation deserves Commendation for it's R/D efficiency. Sure. Is it directed to right address is different topic.

TRF would undoubtly earn it's condemnation too, again for it's R/D efficiency, and if not for that reason, then because it would simply look better.

Then, someone should push weaponized Liberation too, and - ooooh! - the region would look really good!

And? The organisation would be hardly touched.

Former nation Red Guardian
Founded: Mon Oct 10 2011
Ceased to exist: Tue Nov 19 2013
Population: 4.556 billion
Disgraced: This name was soiled by a former nation (of significant size).

[Misley]

Then, someone should push weaponized Liberation too, and - ooooh! - the region would look really good!

Liberation proposals only target Delegate-imposed passwords, so it would not affect TRF's region.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Then, someone should push weaponized Liberation too, and - ooooh! - the region would look really good!

Liberation proposals only target Delegate-imposed passwords, so it would not affect TRF's region.

Unless the founder goes boom for some reason, then it would greatly affect the region.

[Misley]

Liberation proposals only target Delegate-imposed passwords, so it would not affect TRF's region.

Unless the founder goes boom for some reason, then it would greatly affect the region.

Liberations explicitly only affect Delegate-imposed passwords. The password in The Red Fleet has been established by the founder, so even if it were to cease to exist, a Liberation proposal should have no affect. If it did, that would be a bug.

[Cora II]

Tag.

[/sarcasm]

What ever. Good luck!

[Chostea]

How on earth this resolution is not only being rejected, but so fiercely is beyond me. Disgusting. Nice propaganda, reds, you've clearly got everyone fooled.

Funny, since the opponents of this resolution have launched no countercampaign, whereas its proponents promptly sent out a mass propaganda piece to every World Assembly delegation.

Get your fucking facts straight.

Why don't you get yours straight first. There was no "propaganda campaign" by the proponents of this resolution to WA delegates at all. You're blatantly lying now.

[Cedoria]

Funny, since the opponents of this resolution have launched no countercampaign, whereas its proponents promptly sent out a mass propaganda piece to every World Assembly delegation.

Get your fucking facts straight.

Why don't you get yours straight first. There was no "propaganda campaign" by the proponents of this resolution to WA delegates at all. You're blatantly lying now.

I got a message as Delegate asking me to vote in favour. I have had no such counter-proposal. This is a blatant fabrication of yours, and you know it. Or you just really REALLY haven't been paying attention.

This resolution claims the Red Fleet raids 'innocent' regions (whatever that means in this context?) yet does not provide a single piece of evidence, nor one region that is named that was not Fascist. If the opponents of TRF are so desperate to condemn it, they'd better actually have some evidence that it's deserved before embarrassing themselves further with this pathetic attempt at ideological point-scoring in violation of all evidence.

[Nazi Kingdom of Neo-Prussia]

Please consider voting to condemn the Red Fleet - they have targeted far too many neutral RP regions in the name of defeating fascism. Fascist players don't deserve such heavy targeting if they're not active raiders.