[DEFEATED]Liberate The Black Riders

[Mousebumples]

DELEGATES APPROVE HERE

The Security Council,

Recalling The Black Riders as an region dedicated to the griefing and destruction of the international community,

Realizing that since the untimely demise of the regional founder Black Riders Commander also known as General Halcones, the region has become susceptible to further greifing and long term occupation,

Distraught that since the fall of General Halcones, the region has suffered two catastrophic invasions at the hands of a multiregional force led by United German Regions, and now The Black Hawks,

Cognizant of the fact several former members of The Black Riders now affiliated with DEN, along with members of The Black Hawks infiltrated the reformed government of The Black Riders and rigged elections placing them in positions of power allowing them to effectively take full control of the region,

Fully aware that the current delegate Harenhime also known as Ever-Wandering Souls a high ranking member of The Black Hawks has full intentions of locking this region down, thus preventing free entry into the region,

Cognizant that this Council is dedicated to the goal of preserving of inter-regional peace and goodwill,

Believing that by keeping this region open, the international community will benefit,

Hereby liberates The Black Riders.

DELEGATES APPROVE HERE

[Tristiania]

An anonymous puppet this time, Chester?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

How does one actually "rig the election"

[Topid]

This is definitely needed. Support.

[New Grestin]

Maybe if we do this for the sixth time in the last two months, it'll actually go through.

Probably not, though.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Esteemed Delegates of Nationstates-

It has come to my attention that you are endorsing the proposal "Liberate The Black Riders." Now, as one of the nations named within said proposal, I'm sure your first thought is that I am by no means an unbiased source to be writing to you about this, but please- hear me out.

Let's cover some background here - The Black Riders was indeed a Raider region, founded by raider, lived in by raiders, and home to a unique community. Several months ago, the founder was deleted due to rulebreaking unknown to the rest of the region, and a mob of other players moved into the region to seize control. This effort was not supported by the international community, due to it's nature as a glorified raid itself.

Now to cover the proposal:

The body states "Realizing that since the untimely demise of the regional founder Black Riders Commander also known as General Halcones, the region has become susceptible to further greifing and long term occupation."

Indeed, it has. This is exactly why the effort to secure it with a military force is so important. I have not tolerated hateful speech towards either side in the region (indeed removing some of my own support), and, you may note, have allowed those who have communicated with me or endorsed me to stay for the time being. The only nations removed have been those refusing to even acknowledge the regional rules. Also, I believe "Griefing" is spelled wrong, if anyone knows who the anonymous author is and wishes to inform them.

The proposal continues "Distraught that since the fall of General Halcones, the region has suffered two catastrophic invasions at the hands of a multiregional force led by United German Regions, and now The Black Hawks,

Cognizant of the fact several former members of The Black Riders now affiliated with DEN, along with members of The Black Hawks infiltrated the reformed government of The Black Riders and rigged elections placing them in positions of power allowing them to effectively take full control of the region."

Indeed, the region was invaded in an effort led by UGR, founder of another region. When he abruptly abandoned the region after removing many native members, it fell into a chaos picked up by Pontacium, who attempted to hand the region over to a former rider he was in communication with by abruptly resigning as well, after purging the members of UGR's government from the region. This was the point where former natives of the region, remaining there in disguise, stepped up. To say the government was "infiltrated" is unfair - we built the government from the ground, and without us the internal squabbles and lack of effort or organization would have likely prevented the government from ever becoming a reality. On the note of the "second invasion," I would propose that is a poor term - at best, we would word the effort as a "counter-invasion," an invasion of a region already under occupation. If this sounds familiar, it would be because this is essential a liberation under a different skin. Due to this fact, we've even seen some defender support in our efforts, including from the East Pacific Sovereign Army (who's at-the-time leader Xoriet openly called the effort a liberation on the RMB) and famous defender of antiquity, Drop Your Pants, who until recently was endorsing me as well.

"Fully aware that the current delegate The Ever-Wandering Souls of Harenhime also known as The Nuclear Winter Wonderlands of Ever-Wandering Souls a high ranking member of The Black Hawks has full intentions of locking this region down, thus preventing free entry into the region."

I do indeed intend to lock the region down to prevent any future invasion, as supported by those who originally founded and habituated the region.

"Cognizant that this Council is dedicated to the goal of preserving of inter-regional peace and goodwill."

If the outpouring of support as shown in the current WFE of The Black Riders is not representative of international goodwill towards the current regime, I'm not sure what is.

"Believing that by keeping this region open, the international community will benefit."

And how, exactly, will the international community benefit from this effort? There is currently no password in place, for starters, and not many people seem to be interested in coming there as is. What will "the international community" do? Raid it again like UGR did? Hold conventions there? There has already been a convention held there under the current system. There is no way that this region benefits the community as anything other than locked down memorial, as the original natives agree, and I intend to carry out.

In conclusion, I'd go so far as to say this proposal is, at heart, an incredible case of double standards. If any other region's native populace has secured their home region after an invasion, an effort to make that region open to attack by the world at large would be laughable, not near reaching queue in mere hours. The already community decided months ago, when all efforts to liberate the region under the UGR regime failed, that this region was apparently not worth liberating from any raid. I would beg of you, please do not further this double standard. Please do not set an example of liberating a native-controlled region so international forces can play with it at will. Please, take a moment, and remove support from this proposal.

Thank you for your time.

- Ever-Wandering Souls

[We Are Not The ATF]

I love how even after its death the SC is still biased against TBR. If this was happening in any other region, nobody would try to stop a refound. In my experience, the WA usually helps the natives refound after their region is liberated.

My favorite part of this is that I'll probably be the only one who asks the standard liberation question: does it have native support?

[Kaboomlandia]

Forget it.

[Khanuvar]

Why is this even a thing? It's our region not yours, we took it back from a hostile invading force. You have no right to dictate what we do with it. This is a gross misuse of power by the corrupt tyrants of the WA.

[We Are Not The ATF]

The Security Council,

Recalling The Black Riders as an region dedicated to the griefing and destruction of the international community,

Alright, here we go: no. Mods have ruled that raiding in itself is not griefing, and since we were never warned or punished for griefing, that means we didn't grief.

Realizing that since the untimely demise of the regional founder Black Riders Commander also known as General Halcones, the region has become susceptible to further greifing and long term occupation,

Yes, but the occupation has been liberated and is no longer in affect.

Distraught that since the fall of General Halcones, the region has suffered two catastrophic invasions at the hands of a multiregional force led by United German Regions, and now The Black Hawks,

Incorrect: despite the fact that many are not willing to admit it, The Black Hawks Liberated TBR, they did not invade it. Also, a liberation will not stop further invasions.

Cognizant of the fact several former members of The Black Riders now affiliated with DEN, along with members of The Black Hawks infiltrated the reformed government of The Black Riders and rigged elections placing them in positions of power allowing them to effectively take full control of the region,

I will leave it at this: If this was any other region, ANY other region, this argument would not only be counter productive, but would invalidate the entire proposal. (Emphasis mine)

Fully aware that the current delegate Harenhime also known as Ever-Wandering Souls a high ranking member of The Black Hawks has full intentions of locking this region down, thus preventing free entry into the region,

We want to locked it down... in a couple of months. Passing this liberation now will only result in the inability of any other forces to hold the region.

Cognizant that this Council is dedicated to the goal of preserving of inter-regional peace and goodwill,

Believing that by keeping this region open, the international community will benefit,

One question: How? How will this liberation benefit the international community, or preserve peace? It won't. This entire proposal is just a petty group of words thrown together with no coherent argument. It is entirely clear that the only goal of this proposal is to create a warzone in The Black Riders.

I see no reason to sugar coat this: this is a pathetic Liberate Liberal Haven knock-off.

[Xoriet]

The mighty have fallen significantly if they're trying to help natives with identity issues take back a region that does not belong to them at all. Really, Chester? You're going to try and enable unjust invasion by interfering in what is raider territory? Those angry natives who raided The Black Riders the moment it was vulnerable became raiders on that very day. You are supporting a raid against raiders...out of spite? For the amusement? For the sake of getting another proposal passed?

Whatever your reason, you need to understand the simple fact: This is wrong.

This region belongs to the raiders. They are the real natives of this region. In essence you are "liberating" a region from its own natives. I may potentially even be alone on this issue in the defender sphere, but I do not support attempts to stop natives from refounding or protecting their present or former home. You are merely justifying a long-held belief that the SC is nothing but a manipulable defender tool.

More than that, you are obstructing something that you would not obstruct any other community from.

This is no better than any other SC attempt to use the power of the WA to stop anyone with a raider label from a basic right that you would grant any other community simply out of spite.

How much native support do you have for this, Chester? I mean the real natives of The Black Riders.

[Ramaeus]

I, naturally, am against this and will vote accordingly. The longest-serving Delegate of the "new natives" -- the force which occupied TBR -- was actually a sleeper for raiders attempting to reclaim the region from the invading force. The raiders successfully liberated TBR from the force previously occupying the region. Your attempt (a poor one, might I add) to manipulate events to suit your unique brand of "defenderdom" will hopefully fail miserably.

[We Are Not The ATF]

I would just like to take a second to analyze two lines of this proposal.

Distraught that since the fall of General Halcones, the region has suffered two catastrophic invasions at the hands of a multiregional force led by United German Regions, and now The Black Hawks,

Cognizant of the fact several former members of The Black Riders now affiliated with DEN, along with members of The Black Hawks infiltrated the reformed government of The Black Riders and rigged elections placing them in positions of power allowing them to effectively take full control of the region,

What I want to focus on is this:

the region has suffered two catastrophic invasions at the hands of a multiregional force led by United German Regions... several former members ... infiltrated the reformed government

In the section of text that is red, It states that the UGR regime raided the region, and gives his group a negative connotation. In the section labelled in green, it states that TBH (who btw did not raid the region, or even liberate it considering the fact that it was a raider coalition) infiltrated the "reformist government (aka the UGR lot), this time giving what UGR did a positive connotation. It's completely contradictor, and doesn't show a full comprehension of what happened.

Oh, and for the potential argument "but UGR wasn't in control anymore" here's my counter rebuttal: Do you honestly believe that Pontacium, the guy who turned the region into a dictatorship and then directly handed the region over to the raiders, deserves to be called the "reformist government"?

Lastly, I'd just like to comment on how shady this proposal is. There was no drafting involved in it. It was clearly submitted by a puppet, an anonymous puppet,and does not have any clear goals. It is completely hypocritical, contradictory and at some points just plain incorrect. The most disturbing part is that the puppet master shows no sign of responding to any of the criticism in this thread. TBR does not have a password, and will not for at least several weeks, and Harenhime has too many endorsements for anybody to even hope of raiding the region, which means that there is only one explanation for this proposal: This is just meant to screw with the natives of TBR and make it harder for the natives to refound. If this is the case, then this is possibly the most immature use of the World Assembly that I have ever seen. If you don't like the fact that TBR is back in the hands of those who put 40 plus days of effort into retaking it, at least have the balls to say it to our faces.

Until the author of this proposal addresses the concerns that have been brought up regarding their proposal, I am done with this thread.

[Island Union]

So we are stopping the actual natives of region from re-founding their region? Its sad how quickly this got to quorum. Completely against this.

[Ambroscus Koth]

As a native of TBR since 2012, I am strongly against this proposal. The double standard here is unreal.

[The Kiss Master]

If this was happening in any other region, nobody would try to stop a refound. In my experience, the WA usually helps the natives refound after their region is liberated.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... ?start=108

Why is this even a thing? It's our region not yours, we took it back from a hostile invading force. You have no right to dictate what we do with it. This is a gross misuse of power by the corrupt tyrants of the WA.

See above

If this is the case, then this is possibly the most immature use of the World Assembly that I have ever seen.

See above

I, naturally, am against this and will vote accordingly. The longest-serving Delegate of the "new natives" -- the force which occupied TBR -- was actually a sleeper for raiders attempting to reclaim the region from the invading force. The raiders successfully liberated TBR from the force previously occupying the region. Your attempt (a poor one, might I add) to manipulate events to suit your unique brand of "defenderdom" will hopefully fail miserably.

Curious. I seem to remember you championing the cause to liberate NE. Its all good and well when a region starts affecting GCR's, that they can use the SC for their purpose. I guess it is a different thing when us little guys are continually having our region raided over and over. We should just go it on our own?

The mighty have fallen significantly if they're trying to help natives with identity issues take back a region that does not belong to them at all. Really, Chester? You're going to try and enable unjust invasion by interfering in what is raider territory? Those angry natives who raided The Black Riders the moment it was vulnerable became raiders on that very day. You are supporting a raid against raiders...out of spite? For the amusement? For the sake of getting another proposal passed?

Whatever your reason, you need to understand the simple fact: This is wrong.

This region belongs to the raiders. They are the real natives of this region. In essence you are "liberating" a region from its own natives. I may potentially even be alone on this issue in the defender sphere, but I do not support attempts to stop natives from refounding or protecting their present or former home. You are merely justifying a long-held belief that the SC is nothing but a manipulable defender tool.

More than that, you are obstructing something that you would not obstruct any other community from.

This is no better than any other SC attempt to use the power of the WA to stop anyone with a raider label from a basic right that you would grant any other community simply out of spite.

How much native support do you have for this, Chester? I mean the real natives of The Black Riders.

Who are you talking about and why should I care?

An anonymous puppet this time, Chester?

See my comment to Xoriet above.

[Cora II]

Hmmm.... elsewhere these "natives" insist strongly that it's the Invasion going one in TBR, when I pointed it out to them the situation and intents of operation are more defensive then offensive in their outfit.

Now these same folks play natives strongly against the draft.

There was dirty fight concerning the proper definition of this high profile operation. Double standards are double standards regardless who uses them.

ABSTAINING

[Luxdonia]

I love how even after its death the SC is still biased against TBR. If this was happening in any other region, nobody would try to stop a refound. In my experience, the WA usually helps the natives refound after their region is liberated.

My favorite part of this is that I'll probably be the only one who asks the standard liberation question: does it have native support?

To the honourable envoy from the nation of We Are Not the ATF:
The Security Council is biased againist groups or organizations which malicously and continually attack defenceless regions. The World Assembly represents the views of the majority and therefore it is no suprise that raiders are frequently condemned by this body.

Mrs Lisa Bridge,
Luxdonian Special Envoy to the Security Council

[Tristiania]

The mighty have fallen significantly if they're trying to help natives with identity issues take back a region that does not belong to them at all. Really, Chester? You're going to try and enable unjust invasion by interfering in what is raider territory? Those angry natives who raided The Black Riders the moment it was vulnerable became raiders on that very day. You are supporting a raid against raiders...out of spite? For the amusement? For the sake of getting another proposal passed?

Whatever your reason, you need to understand the simple fact: This is wrong.

This region belongs to the raiders. They are the real natives of this region. In essence you are "liberating" a region from its own natives. I may potentially even be alone on this issue in the defender sphere, but I do not support attempts to stop natives from refounding or protecting their present or former home. You are merely justifying a long-held belief that the SC is nothing but a manipulable defender tool.

More than that, you are obstructing something that you would not obstruct any other community from.

This is no better than any other SC attempt to use the power of the WA to stop anyone with a raider label from a basic right that you would grant any other community simply out of spite.

How much native support do you have for this, Chester? I mean the real natives of The Black Riders.

Who are you talking about and why should I care?

Oh, I don't know, you did say you were one of those helpless little people.

[Valrifell]

The resolution proposed appears to intentionally or otherwise leave the order of the events that had transpired out of order, or at least reading the resolution proposed makes it seem as such. Here's the vibe I'm getting from this as you tell it:

1. TBR naturally came to the form of democracy after their Founder was deleted.
2. The new government wasn't setup by the first raid mockingly mentioned in this very resolution.
3. Several members of this fictional "happy go-lucky" democracy defected to DEN
4. Said defectors enlisted the help of TBH to raid the region for malicious intent.

Now, the events as they happened (which, again as my main issue with this, the resolution makes unclear)

1. TBR's founder was deleted.
2. TBR was promptly raided by a coalition of non-natives seeking vengeance on TBR
3. TBR natives transitioned to DEN to continue their Gameplay work.
4. Completely unrelated to DEN, Souls plants a puppet to gather information to check if any future plans were in order.
5. Delegate seat was then hilariously handed over to him.
6. Several members of DEN (who, if I may remind the Council, are the rightful natives of TBR) supported the delegate, thereby technically reinstating Native control to do so as they please.

Since the events that had transpired have been clarified into simple, easy to digest numbers, I sincerely hope that this helps the more uninformed voter come to a proper conclusion instead to jumping to one with the very little information the resolution actually gives.

I also echo Koth's sentiments:

The double standard here is unreal.

[Valrifell]

Did I forget to mention that if, nothing else legitimizes the Nativicity of the 'Invading' forces, that the Liberation of TBR has the backing of several notable Defenders and associates.

[New Grestin]

An already submitted proposal from an obvious puppet?

This seems totally legit. Totally.

[Valrifell]

If this was happening in any other region, nobody would try to stop a refound. In my experience, the WA usually helps the natives refound after their region is liberated.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... ?start=108

Nazi Europe is a very very very poor comparison to the situation going on, and you absolutely know that. The WA and humanity in general cannot forgive Nazism in any respect of the word, even if it is some form of harmless strange roleplay experiment, you are basically comparing raiding to fucking Nazism.

[Viking Sopo]

Funen will shortly be voting against this resolution. Why anyone thought this was a good idea is beyond me.

[Ramaeus]

Curious. I seem to remember you championing the cause to liberate NE. Its all good and well when a region starts affecting GCR's, that they can use the SC for their purpose. I guess it is a different thing when us little guys are continually having our region raided over and over. We should just go it on our own?

I wasn't particularly active when "Liberate Nazi Europe" happened, and I certainly wasn't involved in GP or the SC during, so I am naturally befuddled by your reply.

In fact, I recall supporting SkyDip's repeal when it came to vote.