[PASSED] Liberate Land of the Liberals II

[Whamabama]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

Are you saying that they have the password, and can return anytime?


.............Ya I thought not.

[Kalibarr]

I like how by completely ignoring my point here, you back my point up in the other thread

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

quiet frankly, it doesn't matter if it is a native or not, the founder can still do those things.

If you want to re-move founders I believe there is a thread over in technical.

You can't remove founders. The mods don't do that, not anymore.

And you're correct, Kali, if New Earth is successful in refounding they have successfully exploited the powers invested to them by the World Assembly, and gained a control over the region which even the World Assembly can not interfere with. Thats why it is so imperative that the World Assembly prevent such an exploitation of influence.

so if a native were re-founding you'd be against that too right?

cuz they could do the same thing.

It depends on if you consider it an exploitation. I don't, not when it is done by someone who isn't acting on the whims of a foreign force or in the case of New Earth, expanding an empire.

I see four forces in a region which are meant to protect region's from interregional disharmony.

• A founder (the ultimate control)
• The World Assembly (an interregional organization which involves itself with regional administrations)
• A WA delegate (the ambassador to a region, and a representative of the World Assembly)
• Endorsers (the voters who decide the WA delegate)

In the case of Land of the Liberals, three of these interregional forces have failed to produce peace or goodwill to the region, the regional sovereignty, the general will of the natives has been disturbed by a foreign force. It is up to that last force, the World Assembly, to restore peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

An exploitation of influence in my opinion would be using the World Assembly to gain power over the foundership, the delegate, and his endorsers, while disregarding regional sovereignty.

[Naivetry]

I'm slightly annoyed you are using the word "you" I have not contacted a single native

Can you not see the benefits of a Land of the Liberals with an active founder that can protect the region?

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that raiders claim to be raiding this region to protect it from being raided?

[A mean old man]

• The World Assembly (an interregional organization which involves itself with regional administrations

By "The World Assembly" I'm sure you mean yourself.

[Kalibarr]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

quiet frankly, it doesn't matter if it is a native or not, the founder can still do those things.

If you want to re-move founders I believe there is a thread over in technical.

You can't remove founders. The mods don't do that, not anymore.

And you're correct, Kali, if New Earth is successful in refounding they have successfully exploited the powers invested to them by the World Assembly, and gained a control over the region which even the World Assembly can not interfere with. Thats why it is so imperative that the World Assembly prevent such an exploitation of influence.

so if a native were re-founding you'd be against that too right?

cuz they could do the same thing.

It depends on if you consider it an exploitation. I don't, not when it is done by someone who isn't acting on the whims of a foreign force or in the case of New Earth, expanding an empire.

I see four forces in a region which are meant to protect region's from interregional disharmony.

• A founder (the ultimate control)
• The World Assembly (an interregional organization which involves itself with regional administrations)
• A WA delegate (the ambassador to a region, and a representative of the World Assembly)
• Endorsers (the voters who decide the WA delegate)

In the case of Land of the Liberals, three of these interregional forces have failed to produce peace or goodwill to the region, the regional sovereignty, the general will of the natives has been disturbed by a foreign force. It is up to that last force, the World Assembly, to restore peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

An exploitation of influence in my opinion would be using the World Assembly to gain power over the foundership, the delegate, and his endorsers, while disregarding regional sovereignty.

Via Force? you mean by sending defenders in, last time I checked they weren't part of the WA

Also your ignoring my point, would you intervene if a native were trying to re-found, but you suspected he'd simply ejectoban the other natives if he became founder?

[Unibotian WA Mission]

Via force, is a term that was created by an admin. I've always interpreted it as referring to the liberation category.

[Kalibarr]

Via force, is a term that was created by an admin. I've always interpreted it as referring to the liberation category.

and they can use that force on natives too right

[Rolamec]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

Are you saying that they have the password, and can return anytime?


.............Ya I thought not.

No. What I mean is that no password shall be put in place afterwards.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

Via force, is a term that was created by an admin. I've always interpreted it as referring to the liberation category.

and they can use that force on natives too right

Theoretically.

[Kalibarr]

Via force, is a term that was created by an admin. I've always interpreted it as referring to the liberation category.

and they can use that force on natives too right

Theoretically.

So if a native, who we had evidence was going to re-found a region and probably ejectoban a bunch of other natives, a liberation would be needed to prevent that from happening.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Via force, is a term that was created by an admin. I've always interpreted it as referring to the liberation category.

and they can use that force on natives too right

Theoretically.

So if a native, who we had evidence was going to re-found a region and probably ejectoban a bunch of other natives, a liberation would be needed to prevent that from happening.

That could actually be a needy situation for a liberation, a rogue native. One could suggest that a foreign force could also be himself.. going rogue to control the region for their own selfish gains.

[Naivetry]

So if a native, who we had evidence was going to re-found a region and probably ejectoban a bunch of other natives, a liberation would be needed to prevent that from happening.

"Ejectoban"? Heh. Usually we say banject. But that does have a certain ring.

There you start to get into regional politics, rather than raider/defender stuff. The possibilities there aren't necessarily reducible to questions of regional sovereignty, and so I expect that's where we'd start to see some actual realpolitik in the WA.

[Whamabama]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

Are you saying that they have the password, and can return anytime?


.............Ya I thought not.

No. What I mean is that no password shall be put in place afterwards.

What a consolation prize there. After you toss them out against their will, and finish destroying what was theirs, and have full claim to ownership, you will allow them to reside there if they wish. What a great deal. That's like someone coming over to your house, destroying it with a bulldozer, building a shack with their own name on it, and allowing you to rent the place.

[A mean old man]

What a consolation prize there. After you toss them out against their will, and finish destroying what was theirs, and have full claim to ownership, you will allow them to reside there if they wish. What a great deal. That's like someone coming over to your house, destroying it with a bulldozer, building a shack with their own name on it, and allowing you to rent the place.

Just a note: That's better than turning it into a trophy region.

But, since I don't know the actual intent of the raiders here, I'm not going to argue for or against the resolution itself based on this point.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

Are you saying that they have the password, and can return anytime?


.............Ya I thought not.

No. What I mean is that no password shall be put in place afterwards.

What a consolation prize there. After you toss them out against their will, and finish destroying what was theirs, and have full claim to ownership, you will allow them to reside there if they wish. What a great deal. That's like someone coming over to your house, destroying it with a bulldozer, building a shack with their own name on it, and allowing you to rent the place.

And remember, its for their protection.

[Rolamec]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

Are you saying that they have the password, and can return anytime?


.............Ya I thought not.

No. What I mean is that no password shall be put in place afterwards.

What a consolation prize there. After you toss them out against their will, and finish destroying what was theirs, and have full claim to ownership, you will allow them to reside there if they wish. What a great deal. That's like someone coming over to your house, destroying it with a bulldozer, building a shack with their own name on it, and allowing you to rent the place.

Actually we tossed our two natives, the other three have left out of their own free will, so not really sure how that argument works?

[Echolilia]

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Would you stop harping on that already? Yes, once you've refounded, you don't need a password and don't have any need to keep them out. So? If it's going to be their region again, only with your extra provision of 'security', why do you need to take on refounding it?

I don't see you even promising to refrain from using your status as founder afterward, indeed you make quite a point of the "stability" you will bring. Nor do I see you offering to help one of the natives refound - the obvious solution if your motives were as altruistic as you imply.

[South Norwega]

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Would you stop harping on that already? Yes, once you've refounded, you don't need a password and don't have any need to keep them out. So? If it's going to be their region again, only with your extra provision of 'security', why do you need to take on refounding it?

I don't see you even promising to refrain from using your status as founder afterward, indeed you make quite a point of the "stability" you will bring. Nor do I see you offering to help one of the natives refound - the obvious solution if your motives were as altruistic as you imply.

I agree with this. If a refounding were truly desired by the natives, they could have taken it on themselves, rather than have some invader group impose a refounding on them.

[Rolamec]

Not at all. The natives themselves were inactive, when we first arrived most were at minimum 5-6 days inactive. The goal is to provide a founder who is responsible enough so that if he or she should cease to exist, he or she shall successfully entrust that nation to another who shall do the same and so on.

[Echolilia]

Not at all. The natives themselves were inactive, when we first arrived most were at minimum 5-6 days inactive. The goal is to provide a founder who is responsible enough so that if he or she should cease to exist, he or she shall successfully entrust that nation to another who shall do the same and so on.

Your goal. Imposed on them. To save them from...invaders?!

[Freedomloving States]

I have followed this discussion about my region for awhile now. Here's a copy of the TG I received some days ago. I was reluctant to move at first, but thought it was wise to cooperate with the WA delegate.

"FlagThe Allied States of TVC Recruiter
Received: 10 days ago I am sure you got a tg from Calemor, which is me. I made a promise that this region will be refounded and be allowed to form its government and be free. And I shall make it. Azril and a Liberal Black Dude the two oldest natives here support that, the others have said nothing.

I promise you sir, on my throne as Emperor, that I will not destroy this region. I will make sure it remains and lives."

Some people are uttering concern about the natives of Land of the Liberals. However none of them has even bothered to TG me and ask for my opinion. Until recently I was a resident of LotL, and I was kindly asked to leave in order to support a refound (see above).I have received no threats. I don't mind that New Earth refound LotL. I must say, I am rather puzzled by the tenacity of some players when they are worried of the rights of natives, when they haven't bothered to talk to us. Are you interested in our views at all, or is your own interests that comes in first hand? Please let the refound go ahead as planned.

[Freedomloving States]

There is little more I can do but give you my personal assurances that Land of the Liberals would not become a password trophy. It would be opened up to one and all, the only difference is that it would have an active founder.

We've already seen you as delegate....

14 minutes ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Empire of Zul Nerub from the region.
8 hours ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Republic of Avelius from the region.
23 hours ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Dictatorship of Dimension 9 from the region.
23 hours ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Empire of Sethoria from the region.
23 hours ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Republic of Hyperion IV from the region.
1 day, 1 hour ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Republic of Kalashnikov Rus from the region.
1 day, 1 hour ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Colony of The Twilight Coast from the region.
1 day, 1 hour ago: The Kingdom of Spooks I ejected The Republic of Poppapdda from the region.

... Founder can only be worse.

I'm sorry, but these nations are pretty new to LotL.

[Freedomloving States]

If you want to make the proposed refounding more difficult for New Earth that's up to you.

Its up to the World Assembly in the grander scheme of things.

Well, what about those living in the region?

[Slaytesics]

Not at all. The natives themselves were inactive, when we first arrived most were at minimum 5-6 days inactive. The goal is to provide a founder who is responsible enough so that if he or she should cease to exist, he or she shall successfully entrust that nation to another who shall do the same and so on.

19 hours ago: Spooks I ejected The United Socialist States of Moralesia from Land of the Liberals.