[PASSED] Liberate Land of the Liberals II

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

I'm slightly annoyed you are using the word "you" I have not contacted a single native

Can you not see the benefits of a Land of the Liberals with an active founder that can protect the region?

A few problems.

1. You aren't a member of the region, even if they would be better off with a founder, it's not up to you to become it.
2. the natives didn't invite you to become the founder.
3. You don't care about the natives anyway. All you want is a trophy, and it will be an empty one if you succeed.
4. Everybody looses. The natives loose their region, and all you will end up with is a page with a founder nation in it that you will have to keep up. All just so you can write the name on your region as a territory. In the meantime the players who inhabit the region have to find a new home, or create a new one. They won't be back, not to live under the power of those who destroyed their region.

Considering 66% of the natives support us, I hardly would consider those statements 'fact.'

Considering 100% of those natives have been threatened by you, I hardly would consider that statement fact.

[Rolamec]

This 'evidence' is weak and pathetic.

First. Spooks ejected nobody based on ideologue, so spare me the political war and outrage your trying to create.

Second, your so-called native support is weak. You have two natives who support the measure, while the other four do not.

The Worried Men sent me the following telegram:

"Sorry for the late reply. I'll leave freely."

Or Azril, who only posted this comment today:

"4 hours ago Azril Good luck with the refound guys. I'll get out of here to make it easier on you."

Check the rmb out yourself. Better yet, see how he, the Worried States, and a Liberal Black dude all left out of their own free will. Not by being 'banjected. View the evidence yourself

This resolutions smells of interventionism, has 1/3 of the natives support (hardly native support) and is worded with the intent of deception.

I'd say 1/3 support isn't bad when you're threatening them with ejection, and a failure to comply to your orders will lead to them not having any say in Land of the Liberals' policies in the future (which will likely happen anyway).

1/3 is horrible, are you kidding me? In some countries, like the US, 66% is considered a landslide, a super-majority, a clear and concise approval of whatever action is being done. Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why? It is because they are more than welcome to return. There will be no password in place after wards, there will be no imposed ideologue, and it will not be a 'trophy.' Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

This is a fabrication. These are lies, and you are going along with it. For the most part, I have no problem with defenders, they make the game interesting, without them we would be no where (just like without us), but never have I ever been disgusted to see such a poorly constructed resolution full of false statements and outrageous claims, this is disgusting. Frankly, you ought to be ashamed you wrote such a resolution.

It's one thing to just oppose us. Its another thing to press for a liberation resolution, but this is just filth. Full of lies, based on lies, and uses lies to promote your agenda. I believe in realpolitiks, but damn dude, you've lost all and any form of principles.

[Rolamec]

I'm slightly annoyed you are using the word "you" I have not contacted a single native

Can you not see the benefits of a Land of the Liberals with an active founder that can protect the region?

A few problems.

1. You aren't a member of the region, even if they would be better off with a founder, it's not up to you to become it.
2. the natives didn't invite you to become the founder.
3. You don't care about the natives anyway. All you want is a trophy, and it will be an empty one if you succeed.
4. Everybody looses. The natives loose their region, and all you will end up with is a page with a founder nation in it that you will have to keep up. All just so you can write the name on your region as a territory. In the meantime the players who inhabit the region have to find a new home, or create a new one. They won't be back, not to live under the power of those who destroyed their region.

Considering 66% of the natives support us, I hardly would consider those statements 'fact.'

Considering 100% of those natives have been threatened by you, I hardly would consider that statement fact.

Oh spare me. Your claims that we have no native support and your resolution does is ludicrous. This is just an effort to intervene at every occasion you can, even without natives supporting your 'cause.' You seem to be more on a self-righteous crusade, than an effort to actually help the Land of the Liberals.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

[Rolamec]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement I made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

[Rolamec]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

[Kalibarr]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

and not that different from what your trying to do the Security Council...

[Rolamec]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

[Rolamec]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or [u]independent regions that do their own thing.[/b] They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

LOL Glad I could bring a chuckle! Because I think you forgot that little 'or' there.

One great example is the United Kingdom of UK US Japan, who requested I act as their head of state, are founder-less, but we do not invade. If your statement that I was a 'cold-hearted' person were true, that I bully my allies to being allies, why wouldn't I? Wouldn't I want to ensure that I remain Emperor there?

Once again, your trying to make statements about New Earth. Your trying to use claims and create evidence that doesn't exist.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

and not that different from what your trying to do the Security Council...

I'm the delegate of the Security Council because Topid, the founder, the original founder supports me -- and I'm a native of the Security Council who is active enough to be a good representative.

[Kalibarr]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

and not that different from what your trying to do the Security Council...

I'm the delegate of the Security Council because Topid, the founder, the original founder supports me -- and I'm a native of the Security Council who is active enough to be a good representative.

not that SC...

Edit: and how was I not a native?

[Martyrdoom]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

and not that different from what your trying to do the Security Council...

Ah, the benefits of peering through the looking-glass.

[Topid]

I'm the delegate of the Security Council because Topid, the founder, the original founder supports me -- and I'm a native of the Security Council who is active enough to be a good representative.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

Notice on New Earth's WFBE, we do nothing of the sort, we don't mark down successful operations, we don't consider regions we protect 'colonies.'

Then what euphemism do you apply to it traditionally? 'Political Stabilized regions'?

Allies, or independent regions that do their own thing. They just happen to have a founder who doesn't cease to exist.

Sorry, its just, I have to laugh.

You're the only region I know that makes 'allies' by threatening the region's residents, taking it over forcefully regardless of if you've got support, then ultimately retaining full control over the region's proceedings. Thats a very influenced and oppressed 'ally'.

and not that different from what your trying to do the Security Council...

I'm the delegate of the Security Council because Topid, the founder, the original founder supports me -- and I'm a native of the Security Council who is active enough to be a good representative.

not that SC...

Edit: and how was I not a native?

Other than that time you raided us, you are.

[Whamabama]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Thank gawd I have someone with gameplayer knowledge helping me out here, I wouldn't have thought that out in a million years. That makes perfect sense, thanks.

[Rolamec]

Noticed, we have not banned them? Do you know why?

Yes I do know why, you don't need to ban them, once ejected they can't return to the region anyway.

Actually, they will be able too.

[Kalibarr]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

quiet frankly, it doesn't matter if it is a native or not, the founder can still do those things.

If you want to re-move founders I believe there is a thread over in technical.

[Unibotian WA Mission]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

quiet frankly, it doesn't matter if it is a native or not, the founder can still do those things.

If you want to re-move founders I believe there is a thread over in technical.

You can't remove founders. The mods don't do that, not anymore.

And you're correct, Kali, if New Earth is successful in refounding they have successfully exploited the powers invested to them by the World Assembly, and gained a control over the region which even the World Assembly can not interfere with. Thats why it is so imperative that the World Assembly prevent such an exploitation of influence.

[Kalibarr]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

quiet frankly, it doesn't matter if it is a native or not, the founder can still do those things.

If you want to re-move founders I believe there is a thread over in technical.

You can't remove founders. The mods don't do that, not anymore.

And you're correct, Kali, if New Earth is successful in refounding they have successfully exploited the powers invested to them by the World Assembly, and gained a control over the region which even the World Assembly can not interfere with. Thats why it is so imperative that the World Assembly prevent such an exploitation of influence.

so if a native were re-founding you'd be against that too right?

cuz they could do the same thing.

[Kandarin]

You raider-types aren't doing yourselves any favors by continually arguing about the definition of natives. Yes, we've all read the rules. We all know that technically, the old legal definition of native was abolished with the griefing rules. In practice, though, this isn't really what you're arguing. In practice, you're trying to convince people that, if their region is taken over by raiders, they have no right to stay there and should just accept being kicked out for being too small or not being quick enough with the ban button or whatnot. Most of the game's population, which is to say most of the people who are voting on these things, don't accept that. They're not raiders and don't particularly care about raider doctrine; they don't see the masterful work that you folks no doubt put into what you do. All they see is a bunch of little guys getting chucked out of their region, which they would never want to happen to themselves.

You're not going to win this argument. You can argue about legal definitions and the specific number of natives involved until the stars turn cold, but the real argument - the one about whether nations and regions should face destruction if they even once stop watching the update like a hawk - is one in which your view will always be abhorrent to the bulk of the playerbase. But you keep bringing it up; in every Liberation thread, whether it's an actual griefing or not, a considerable chunk of the discussion is you trying to convince folks that if their region ever gets an unlucky update it deserves to be swept away. And then you wonder why things like "Liberate Free Thought" where griefing isn't the issue still get passed - you manage to make it look like the issue anyway.

[Rolamec]

I believe in realpolitiks

Yes, that much is self-evident. All one has to do is view the oppression in Land of the Liberals to see that, call it 'political stability' all you like, thats cold hearted expansionism.

(Nice ignore every other statement on made)

No. If it was, as you put it 'cold hearted expansionism' I would have had the natives ejected and banned. And we have not banned the natives, 3 of whom left out of their own free will.

Your just going Nixon on us. Spitting out these ridiculous claims on every occasion, regardless if they are true or not.

'Free Will' is a hard concept for you to grasp apparently, they have no free will, you're going to take the region anyway, their only hope is to stay friendly enough with you and New Earth in the hopes of being allowed to reside in the region after the refound. You've decided, 'hey' let's protect this region, by ejecting the natives, and assuming ultimate control.

Free will is a perfectly acceptable concept and one that I grasp wholeheartedly. But the free will you are stating, the free will you are using is only how 33% of the natives feel; the other 66% of the natives support us, they want a founder, and they believe if they have one, the region can get active once again. I intend to make that a reality for them.

There is a reason why they were not banned, and there is a reason why there won't be a password after wards.

Why would you password it afterwards a refound? At that point you can ban and eject all you like, or even turn off the delegate controls....

Free Will is not free will when they don't have a choice. The telegram you sent to the natives states, that if they don't comply they will be ejected anyway. This refound, this 'protection' from imaginary beings' is happening, regardless of if the natives support it -- so it doesn't surprise me that you have support. What do they have to lose other than a vague promise of inclusion into the region's affairs? They're already going to lose their region no matter what.

There won't be a password after it is refounded, I won't eject and ban nations all I like, nor will I turn off delegate control.

I think the natives have a choice and they have a free will. They freely and out of their own will decided to support us, if they didn't want to, they would have done what the two you mentioned in your proposal did. There is a difference. Your pressing and manipulating facts to argue your point, when in reality all it is is a perverse and twisted interpretation of the way things actually are.