PASSED: Repeal "Freedom of Marriage Act"

[New Italian Republic]

It is not that i quite as despise gay groups it is just, It goes against all rules of nature and my beliefs. Because being gay is a sin and it leads to no production rate. plus i find that it is stupid and who ever started the trend should have been crucified.

Other then that to repeal freedom to me is a non-reasonable act but if it is for the right reasons then i say DENIED

[Pantoufle]

You shall not pass, either way why do you feel that you should tell people how to or not to live their life?
Live and Let Live Mmmmm kayyy?

[New Italian Republic]

You shall not pass, either way why do you feel that you should tell people how to or not to live their life?
Live and Let Live Mmmmm kayyy?

Not MMMMMMM Kay

[Pantoufle]

You shall not pass, either way why do you feel that you should tell people how to or not to live their life?
Live and Let Live Mmmmm kayyy?

Not MMMMMMM Kay

Elaborate?

[New Italian Republic]

Not MMMMMMM Kay

Elaborate?

Si Seniore

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

But there is nothing in the text [of CoCR] to indicate that it's not allowed for a nation to make policy along the lines of, "Well, any consenting adult can marry any other consenting adult of the opposite sex. We're not discriminating against gay people, we hold straight people to exactly the same standard and are therefore in full compliance with GAR #35."

There's also nothing in the text to prohibit a nation from using the "compelling practical purpose" exception of CoCR, for example by saying "Marriage exists solely for the purpose of procreation because like the ancient Sirealites, we're surrounded on all sides by enemies and we really need the warm bodies; therefore you may only marry for making children."

...

The other big argument for the repeal, the "religious communities" language, is a red herring. The actual rules of FOMA apply explicitly to states; all member states are therefore required to follow those rules, full stop. The preambulatory exception can therefore only apply to non-state level communities, e.g. individual churches, scout troops, cults, retreat camps, seminaries, etc. etc. etc. Even if these other communities need not recognize such marriages, states may not restrict them. There's really no difficulty interpreting this.

So...it's fair to assume that nations will interpret COCR unreasonably in order to continue discriminating against same-sex couples...but it's not fair to assume that they will interpret FOMA unreasonably in order to discriminate?

Why don't we compromise somewhere in the middle, and agree, that a Reasonable Nation would interpret COCR to mean they cannot discriminate against same-sex couples -- and that likewise a Reasonable Nation would also interpret FOMA to mean they cannot discriminate against same-sex couples?

I'm not saying I'll change my argument; I'm only saying I'm not buying yours: because if you can twist the terms of COCR that far on gay marriage, you can probably twist it any which way you like to allow any form of discrimination, and thus the resolution effectively means nothing. Likewise, if you're willing to subvert COCR in order to discriminate, it's really not that difficult to subvert FOMA the same way, to the same result. (And it has been done before...if only I had a live link to the debate on that one. )

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

Elaborate?

Si Seniore

Uh...spamming's bad...M'KAY?

[The Dark Star Republic]

Likewise, if you're willing to subvert COCR in order to discriminate, it's really not that difficult to subvert FOMA the same way, to the same result. (And it has been done before...if only I had a live link to the debate on that one. :roll:)

Not sure if this is what you mean, but here are the debates on FoMA and CoCR.

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

FoMA

Eyup, it's at the end of that one, where B+N starts going off about how they're going to recognize no marital unions, gay or straight, and just let the established church do what they will when couples ask them for marriage. Reasonable Nation Theory is even mentioned! (sigh) What a wonderful day for democracy that was...

[Pantoufle]

I'm quite inclined to say that nations such as New Italian Republic are distasteful and should probably resign if they are going to go against rights that everyone should have regardless of numerous factors. GAR #15 shan't be repealed for the following reasons:
*The WA doesn't favor racist, homophobic, sexist, and so on because its concern is to not to reject any one their rights based off a religious obligations or beleifs.
*Most WA member nations tend to be egaltariantistic and very humanitarianistic and would object to this horrendous proposition.
*GAR #15 is an older resolution and should not be able to be repealed as it has been into law for a longer time.

[Separatist Peoples]

It is not that i quite as despise gay groups it is just, It goes against all rules of nature and my beliefs. Because being gay is a sin and it leads to no production rate. plus i find that it is stupid and who ever started the trend should have been crucified.

Other then that to repeal freedom to me is a non-reasonable act but if it is for the right reasons then i say DENIED

"Sex hasn't been about pure reproduction in most societies for millennia. Ergo, whether it produces children or not is irrelevant, or you'd be banning the infertile from heterosexual marriage. Whether something is a sin is equally irrelevant in global law, because not every nation espouses silly superstition, and neither should we let a fake bearded man in the sky, or whatever people worship, demand discrimination to our fellow sapient individuals. The only thing that needs crucifying is your argument."

[Hirota]

It is not that i quite as despise gay groups it is just, It goes against all rules of nature and my beliefs. Because being gay is a sin and it leads to no production rate. plus i find that it is stupid and who ever started the trend should have been crucified.

Other then that to repeal freedom to me is a non-reasonable act but if it is for the right reasons then i say DENIED

"Sex hasn't been about pure reproduction in most societies for millennia. Ergo, whether it produces children or not is irrelevant, or you'd be banning the infertile from heterosexual marriage. Whether something is a sin is equally irrelevant in global law, because not every nation espouses silly superstition, and neither should we let a fake bearded man in the sky, or whatever people worship, demand discrimination to our fellow sapient individuals. The only thing that needs crucifying is your argument."

Fortunately, these kind of ambassadors have been undermining the causes they profess to support with their particular brand of insipid incompetence. We just need someone like Floody-poos to come in and spout some nonsense and then this has a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding.

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

I'm quite inclined to say that nations such as New Italian Republic are distasteful and should probably resign if they are going to go against rights that everyone should have regardless of numerous factors. GAR #15 shan't be repealed for the following reasons:
*The WA doesn't favor racist, homophobic, sexist, and so on because its concern is to not to reject any one their rights based off a religious obligations or beleifs.

I take it you haven't met Gruenberg or The Eternal Kawaii yet?

*Most WA member nations tend to be egaltariantistic and very humanitarianistic and would object to this horrendous proposition.

...a proposition that not is based on anti-egalitarianism or anti-humanitarianism at all. Did you read it?

*GAR #15 is an older resolution and should not be able to be repealed as it has been into law for a longer time.

Resolutions aren't professors; they aren't afforded with tenure the longer they stick around. The WA can repeal any resolution at any time for any (legal) reason. Otherwise the "repeal" link on #15 would have stopped working.

[Breko]

Ambassador Mook-Mooki oozingly filibusters endlessly about the domestic politics of his home planet Droklah to keep this from progressing further.

[Tinfect]

Ambassador Mook-Mooki oozingly filibusters endlessly about the domestic politics of his home planet Droklah to keep this from progressing further.

Alexander Markhov, tiring of the endless gibbering of Breki Delegation, rises from his seat.
"Ambassador, ... Mook, while I am certain *cough*disgustingabominations*cough* Delegates such as yourself, would wish to waste this assembly's time, so as to avoid the passage of this resolution, the rest of us would like to go back to actually doing our jobs, so if you would please step off the Podium, so we can continue..."
Markhov motions towards the Memorial Reflecting Pool

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Ambassador Mook-Mooki oozingly filibusters endlessly about the domestic politics of his home planet Droklah to keep this from progressing further.

Alexander Markhov, tiring of the endless gibbering of Breki Delegation, rises from his seat.
"Ambassador, ... Mook, while I am certain *cough*disgustingabominations*cough* Delegates such as yourself, would wish to waste this assembly's time, so as to avoid the passage of this resolution, the rest of us would like to go back to actually doing our jobs, so if you would please step off the Podium, so we can continue..."
Markhov motions towards the Memorial Reflecting Pool

Leave it to the Kennyites. Bombastic, irresponsible, undiplomatic, obnoxious, unpleasant, even dangerous and criminal buffoons that they are, they always seem to know their cue.

So it was with Ambassador Susa Batko-Yovino, seated in the General Assembly that day for whatever reason -- maybe the stakes at the casino across the street were too low that day or something? -- listening to the droning of his fellow delegates, punctuated with the occasional shriek and slither from Hot Alien Cousin delegations, allowing his vision to become blurred as he took in the welcome distraction of Jhessan's plentiful cleavage, and not paying much attention to his own delegation's repeal under discussion...when one ambassador made the vaguest gesture toward the WA campus's most popular landmark, and instantly he knew exactly what to do.

Sprung to his feet at sudden notice, he charged violently toward his Breki colleague, roaring heroically as he crashed into him and forced him through the broad southern window facing the Vastivan Reflective Pond, so that the two of them hurdled gracefully into the waters below, and as soon as they landed, proceeded to pummel the discordant alien octopus, continuing to cry at the heavens as though calling down assistance from the gods themselves as he mightily contended with the many-armed monster, like Hercules wrestling the many-headed Hydra. Only with much more oozing purple slime in this instance.

[Breko]

Alexander Markhov, tiring of the endless gibbering of Breki Delegation, rises from his seat.
"Ambassador, ... Mook, while I am certain *cough*disgustingabominations*cough* Delegates such as yourself, would wish to waste this assembly's time, so as to avoid the passage of this resolution, the rest of us would like to go back to actually doing our jobs, so if you would please step off the Podium, so we can continue..."
Markhov motions towards the Memorial Reflecting Pool

Leave it to the Kennyites. Bombastic, irresponsible, undiplomatic, obnoxious, unpleasant, even dangerous and criminal buffoons that they are, they always seem to know their cue.

So it was with Ambassador Susa Batko-Yovino, seated in the General Assembly that day for whatever reason -- maybe the stakes at the casino across the street were too low that day or something? -- listening to the droning of his fellow delegates, punctuated with the occasional shriek and slither from Hot Alien Cousin delegations, allowing his vision to become blurred as he took in the welcome distraction of Jhessan's plentiful cleavage, and not paying much attention to his own delegation's repeal under discussion...when one ambassador made the vaguest gesture toward the WA campus's most popular landmark, and instantly he knew exactly what to do.

Sprung to his feet at sudden notice, he charged violently toward his Breki colleague, roaring heroically as he crashed into him and forced him through the broad southern window facing the Vastivan Reflective Pond, so that the two of them hurdled gracefully into the waters below, and as soon as they landed, proceeded to pummel the discordant alien octopus, continuing to cry at the heavens as though calling down assistance from the gods themselves as he mightily contended with the many-armed monster, like Hercules wrestling the many-headed Hydra. Only with much more oozing purple slime in this instance.

Squealing for help from his fellow ambassadors, Mook-Mooki Cho flailed his slippery tentacles smacking against the Kennyites face as his body absorbs the water like a giant slimey octopus sponge. He proceeds to aim his tentacles at the Kennyite Ambassador's mouth as he shoots out the absorbed water-mucus down his throat. The Breki Ambassador shrivels up in the water dying from over absorption as he excretes his water-mucus. Mook-Mooki dies in the reflecting pool and his eyes proceed to explode. After 5 minutes of shock a small baby Breki crawls out of the Kennyites gagging mouth and retakes his seat ordering his secretary to change his name to Mook-Moko.

[Akorazia]

Ambassador Wedgwood of the Commonwealth of Akorazia, stunned by the events that took place before him, clears his throat and speaks.

"If I may give my input, I think that, if were are to repeal FoMA, we would be left without a resolution forbidding same sex marriage bans through specific language. As it currently stands, CoCR could be interpreted to exclude marriage as a public service."

Ambassador Wedgwood shifts uncomfortably, trying not to stare at the small blob of sentient goo sitting next to him.

"As Ambassador Mook-Mooki- er, Mook-Moko- said, CoCR is not sufficient to guarantee marriage equality to LGBT individuals."

[Normlpeople]

Clover spoke up, broken from her amusement watching the Kennyite debate with a sentient ball of goo, and addressed Ambassador Wedgwood. "You are aware that there is nothing in the CoCR mandating marriage as a public service, correct? We have no same-sex marriage in our nation since we don't recognize marriage at all, and are still compliant with the FoMA. It simply states that public marriage benefits must be given to all, which the CoCR could be interpreted as requiring.

In any case, marriage is a domestic issue, and hopefully this will be replaced with a blocker stating such."

OOC: The debate thread for the FoMA was a painful read..

[Akorazia]

Wedgwood pauses to glance at his notes before replying.

"While you are correct, and Akorazia fully supports the right of a nation to choose whether or not to recognize marriage as an institution, there is a problem with the absence of specific language in CoCR. Perhaps a resolution could be passed that defines public services, while ensuring individual nations the right to universally give or not give such services, but until then, repealing FoMA is simply not feasible. It would open up plenty of loopholes for nations to use for the purposes of discrimination."

[Breko]

Wedgwood pauses to glance at his notes before replying.

"While you are correct, and Akorazia fully supports the right of a nation to choose whether or not to recognize marriage as an institution, there is a problem with the absence of specific language in CoCR. Perhaps a resolution could be passed that defines public services, while ensuring individual nations the right to universally give or not give such services, but until then, repealing FoMA is simply not feasible. It would open up plenty of loopholes for nations to use for the purposes of discrimination."

Mook Moko strokes the Akorazian's ambassador's face with his baby tentacle.

[Burleson 2]

The Republic of Burleson supports this repeal.

[Normlpeople]

Clover smiled sheepishly "It seems my interns messed up my notes. I ment to mention that there is nothing in the FoMA mandating marriage as a public service..."

[Akorazia]

Wedgwood flinches and brushes the newborn Breki's tentacle away from his face nervously.

"That is also true, but FoMA provides a defense for the rights of sexual minorities separate from the public service clause of CoCR. As marriage equality isn't guaranteed by CoCR, as explained by Ambassador Zakalwe, we must have an alternate source of protection."

[Normlpeople]

"And in this we disagree. There is so many loopholes in the FoMA that it must be repealed. The CoCR guarantees the same level of marriage equality, as the resolution states. In any case, the Religious communities and nations such as mine will continue to operate in the same manner regardless of the repeal of this resolution, its time to remove this from the books.

Marriage is a strictly domestic issue anyway, I still hold hope that the WA will pass a blocker next, stating this fact and that it will remain such."