[Passed]Repeal and Replace GA#92

[The Dark Star Republic]

Why do you oppose the preservation of knowledge?

"We don't. We oppose philosophical nonsense. You're also allowing individual nations to entirely pass the buck for funding scientific research on to the WA General Fund.

"But, you have at least confirmed you're not going to rewrite, so we will simply have to entirely oppose this endeavour."

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

[Ainocra]

OOC

in all seriousness you aren't making much sense. I've gone pretty far out of my way trying to work with you on this.
I fail to see how what i view as one of the most innocuous lines in the draft has to do with anything you have brought issue with.

or are you just been trolling me the whole time?

IC

"Daisy I don't understand your opposition to that particular line, kindly explain it to an old man."

[The Dark Star Republic]

"Daisy I don't understand your opposition to that particular line, kindly explain it to an old man."

"I really don't know how else to explain it - nor, given you're not going to rewrite the proposal, what the point would be - if you can't see that tasking a WA agency with collecting "all scientific knowledge" is nonsense. The chemical composition of the glass of water in front of me is "publicly available" - it's not a subject of IP protection nor national security classification. Every child's science experiment conducted in a classroom anywhere within the WA is "scientific knowledge". How many archives is the WA going to need for all those copper sulfate crystals? Or let's take the discovery of element 118. Very few research facilities anywhere within the world have the capacity to experimentally test for this element. Yet the moment anyone does, WASP is committed to "peer review", which presumably means building its own particle accelerator just to find if one fringe publication is "up to date" or not.

"I don't, honestly, think your draft a basic understanding of what experimental science really is, and for that reason our delegation is unlikely to support a repeal of a resolution that is at least not bloated with empiricist bullshit."

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

or are you just been trolling me the whole time?

OOC: That's not fair. I've made practical suggestions for improving your proposal, such as committing WASP grant recipients to open access mandates.

[Unibot III]

This might appease the Ambassador from Dark Star Republic -

(a) To collect and store copies of any and all publicly available scientific knowledge literature with the aim of preserving and protecting it for use now and in the future excepting only that which is illegal under extant WA law.

- but then there is new issue with patents, given the "protecting it for use now" line.

[Ainocra]

Ok that actually makes a little sense,

I phrased it as knowledge because I wanted it to cover all forms of media. As I had envisioned it it would not collect heaps of data on anything already established through experimentation.
So barring some new development, no portalesque warehouses full of potatoes. As for peer review, there is no need really to peer review a glass of water, now a GUT is worth reviewing.

I actually have a pretty good grasp of it, I work in space after all. Seems we are just suffering from a failure to communicate.

I like Eduard's idea, give me a little while to work on it.

OOC:
Sorry, it occurred to me while I was in a stream of consciousness kinda mode.

Always start with practical application with me, best way to get your point across.

[Ainocra]

Updated with a new draft of the replacement. I still haven't solved the potato store room problem but I've got some ideas on it. I will see about putting something in tomorrow to cover it.

[Ainocra]

Alright
Added another clause to address the potato problem, all in all I think i'm almost there.

Thought?

thrown vegetables?

[The Dark Star Republic]

"We are still opposed, and disappointed by your refusal to consider open-access.

"What does 'compor' mean in the final clause?"

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

[Ainocra]

d'oh

That was a typo, i was playing around with wording for that clause and forgot to fix it. Thanks
I don't want to back away from open access because open access is the heart of the idea.

Science should be open to all. I think I have managed to address your concerns without damaging that.
I feel this proposed version of WASP is far more robust and far reaching than the current version and will do a great deal of good in the universe going forward.

As always I am open to suggestions.

[The Dark Star Republic]

"As written though, those receiving WASP assistance are not committed to an open-access mandate. That means the following is entirely possible (and given the way science publishing works, probable):

• The Dark Star Republic has to pay a certain "donation" to the WA General Fund to fund WASP
• WASP assigns funds to a researcher in Ainocra
• The researcher publishes their findings in a copyright journal
• Researchers in The Dark Star Republic have to pay to access the findings

"Given that one of the points of your repeal is to liberate WASP from funding concerns, there is no reason why recipients of assistance should not be committing to gold open-access."

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

[Ainocra]

"As written though, those receiving WASP assistance are not committed to an open-access mandate. That means the following is entirely possible (and given the way science publishing works, probable):

• The Dark Star Republic has to pay a certain "donation" to the WA General Fund to fund WASP
• WASP assigns funds to a researcher in Ainocra
• The researcher publishes their findings in a copyright journal
• Researchers in The Dark Star Republic have to pay to access the findings

"Given that one of the points of your repeal is to liberate WASP from funding concerns, there is no reason why recipients of assistance should not be committing to gold open-access."

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

Daisy

I fail to see how it could conceivably work that way. Donations to the general fund are not as I recall mandatory and it is the primary funding source.
and the information that WASP has is made available to any member, so if an Ainocran researcher used WASP to learn something then all you have to do to get it from wasp is say "Hey... gimmedat!"

Perhaps throw a little more diplomacy into it than I did but that's the gist of it.


However I am willing to entertain alternatives, how would you like it to function?

[The Dark Star Republic]

and the information that WASP has is made available to any member, so if an Ainocran researcher used WASP to learn something then all you have to do to get it from wasp is say "Hey... gimmedat!"

"This makes absolutely no sense. Didn't we just go over a protracted wrangle to ensure respect for IP rights? In which case, how can you possibly advocate violating the copyright of the journals in which research is published?

"I'm starting to question whether you understand how science publishing works.

"That said, I've been pretty monotonous, and you're not getting a lot of other feedback, so at this point I will step back and allow others to comment."

~ Daisy Chinmusic
Legislative Intern

[Ainocra]

That is exactly why I don't understand your objection, it reads like now you want me to take out the copy protection

remember I deal in practicalities best, tell me how you want it to work and if I can do it without destroying the idea then i'll be happy to oblige

ooc

it's late and I'm tired so I might just be too fuzzy to get the point right now

I'll reread this tomorrow and see if it's any clearer then.

In all seriousness though I appreciate the commentary

[Ainocra]

I intend to submit the Repeal within the next 48 hours.

I will wait on submitting the replacement until the repeal is actually in queue. So if anyone has any fixes or changes let me know soonish.

I would like to extend my thanks to Daisy for all her assistance with this draft. Even though we don't see eye to eye on it, your help has been invaluable.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I will wait on submitting the replacement until the repeal is actually in queue.

OOC: Not a mod, but I'm certain you would have to wait until the repeal had passed to submit the replacement.

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

[Ainocra]

I will wait on submitting the replacement until the repeal is actually in queue.

OOC: Not a mod, but I'm certain you would have to wait until the repeal had passed to submit the replacement.

You are probably right, I had best wait. Thanks Daisy

Ambassador Trudeau, my thanks!

[Ainocra]

Almost to quorum

[Ainocra]

Achieved Quorum.

Changed topic title to repeal, once the repeal is at vote then I will submit the replacement.

I will go through the replacement tonight and tinker with wording and arrangement a bit.
Looks like we have about ten days or so before I even submit it. so any suggestions are welcome.

[Ainocra]

new draft of the replacement with some cleaner language and some redundancies dealt with.

I took out the final clause as I felt it was no longer needed after the cleanup, but I can put it back if need be.

I plan to tinker more tonight with it.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Is it worth at this stage making a new thread for the replacement? Given your repeal is going to go to vote, it'll be confusing having people commenting on a new proposal while others are arguing the repeal.

[Ainocra]

OOC:

I was planning to keep them together, if it gets too crazy I suppose they can be split them up.

[Ainocra]

Ok I've tweaked the language of the replacement and I think it's good to go.

[Ainocra]

Once the repeal actually starts voting I will submit the replacement.

So last call!

Please point out anything that jumps out at you.

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

Once the repeal actually starts voting I will submit the replacement.

So last call!

Please point out anything that jumps out at you.

That would be illegal for duplication, as the law is still in effect until it is actually repealed.