PASSED: Liberate Free Thought

[Kalibarr]

I need sleep. That was amazing though. We should do this sometime again, soon, Sedge.

that's what she said

[Sedgistan]

I need sleep. That was amazing though. We should do this sometime again, soon, Sedge.

Yeah, I'm all worn out, and I sweated loads too. To have kept going for an entire week was amazing, and finishing that close together was great!

[Satan In the Flesh]

I need sleep. That was amazing though. We should do this sometime again, soon, Sedge.

that's what she said

Thats why it was misinterpretable.

[Wullamudulla]

What a shame this garbage made it into the law books.

[Travancore-Cochin]

I need sleep. That was amazing though. We should do this sometime again, soon, Sedge.

I couldn't care less if people misinterpret it. I've lost a lot of sleep over this, as I stayed up telegramming delegates like hell, clearing their own misinterpretations, and asking them to vote for.

that's what she said

I have no idea what "she" said, or who "she" is, so perhaps you are right. She must have said that.

But then again, you have a habit of singing one tune now, and something diametrically opposite later. So, I'd rather not take your word.

[Kalibarr]

I need sleep. That was amazing though. We should do this sometime again, soon, Sedge.

I couldn't care less if people misinterpret it. I've lost a lot of sleep over this, as I stayed up telegramming delegates like hell, clearing their own misinterpretations, and asking them to vote for.

that's what she said

I have no idea what "she" said, or who "she" is, so perhaps you are right. She must have said that.

But then again, you have a habit of singing one tune now, and something diametrically opposite later. So, I'd rather not take your word.

Predictability is a weakness

[West Newmanistan]

Hold up here.....

at 8am my time there were 23 hours left to vote according to the WA page.

at 1am, the resolution went through.

What gives? Somewhere, there is an error. I was still tabulating the votes of my region and was expecting that I would be able to place a vote at this time given that it said there were 23 hours left at 8am. It's been 17 hours.

Given the close nature of the vote.... this is an eye opener.

[Todd McCloud]

There was eleven hours on this thing. I personally suspect something fishy, because the vote was too close to tell, especially after there was only a margin of sixty votes with eleven hours still left on the clock for this one.

By far, this resolution has left a horrible mark. Completely disgusting.

EDIT: There is an almost disturbing polarity in the game now. Due to this, and due to a passion to try and always help out the less-fortunate side, I will step up more protests against liberations such as this. Liberations have now become a tool for defenders, a permanent "ace up the sleeve", but with the house turning a blind eye to the madness. It's one thing to have that ace up one's sleeve, but it's another thing to use it on every single hand, only to make up whatever excuse one pleases to make them appear totally innocent. No, this needs to stop. This is not what liberations were designed for. In all honesty, it would be better to take them off the table permanently than to encourage such gameplay. Truly disgusting.

[West Newmanistan]

I'm glad someone else noticed this too.

Some of us take a region vote: Therefore our votes are late in the going.

The nation of West Newmanistan and the region of One Big Island (IC) seeks a formal explanation of why their voice was not allowed to be heard by the premature closure of the voting here.

Not to mention this was likely to be an against vote as the region vote was currently 4-2 on the against side. My 9 votes and a few other delegates that may have been waiting that also tabulate a region vote could have swung this in the other direction.

We demand an explanation. (This is an IC demand, of course )

[Bellvere]

There must have been something wrong with the time, I'm upset that I was not able to give the votes from my region.

[Travancore-Cochin]

There was eleven hours on this thing. I personally suspect something fishy, because the vote was too close to tell, especially after there was only a margin of sixty votes with eleven hours still left on the clock for this one.

The WA timer is off by 12 hours. It has been so for a long time, now. And guess what, it isn't a closely guarded secret either.

By far, this resolution has left a horrible mark. Completely disgusting.

EDIT: There is an almost disturbing polarity in the game now. Due to this, and due to a passion to try and always help out the less-fortunate side, I will step up more protests against liberations such as this. Liberations have now become a tool for defenders, a permanent "ace up the sleeve", but with the house turning a blind eye to the madness. It's one thing to have that ace up one's sleeve, but it's another thing to use it on every single hand, only to make up whatever excuse one pleases to make them appear totally innocent. No, this needs to stop. This is not what liberations were designed for. In all honesty, it would be better to take them off the table permanently than to encourage such gameplay. Truly disgusting.

Passwords have always been a permanent ace up the griefers' sleeve for a while, so I see no reason why there shouldn't be a technique to counter it.

But what's truly disgusting was how you removed your vote, even when it was evident that it was invaders who bussed in and stacked the vote AGAINST in your region.

[West Newmanistan]

There was eleven hours on this thing. I personally suspect something fishy, because the vote was too close to tell, especially after there was only a margin of sixty votes with eleven hours still left on the clock for this one.

The WA timer is off by 12 hours. It has been so for a long time, now. And guess what, it isn't a closely guarded secret either.

Unacceptable. People should not be expected to KNOW this.

If there is a bug then there needs to be disclaimer somewhere on the WA page. If this had been known since the beginning of December, then it is even MORE unacceptable, not less.

[Travancore-Cochin]

Unacceptable. People should not be expected to KNOW this.

If there is a bug then there needs to be disclaimer somewhere on the WA page. If this had been known since the beginning of December, then it is even MORE unacceptable, not less.

By all means, raise the issue in Technical.

It had been raised more than a month ago, and here we are, still without progress.

[Todd McCloud]

There was eleven hours on this thing. I personally suspect something fishy, because the vote was too close to tell, especially after there was only a margin of sixty votes with eleven hours still left on the clock for this one.

The WA timer is off by 12 hours. It has been so for a long time, now. And guess what, it isn't a closely guarded secret either.

If it is such an open policy, why are there (and, I'm going to guess, will be) many delegates coming forward saying they wished they had time to vote, the time that was reflected on the resolution itself? I guess they're all just clueless. Or the whole thing should be made void due to a breech in perjuring the allotted time frame.

By far, this resolution has left a horrible mark. Completely disgusting.

EDIT: There is an almost disturbing polarity in the game now. Due to this, and due to a passion to try and always help out the less-fortunate side, I will step up more protests against liberations such as this. Liberations have now become a tool for defenders, a permanent "ace up the sleeve", but with the house turning a blind eye to the madness. It's one thing to have that ace up one's sleeve, but it's another thing to use it on every single hand, only to make up whatever excuse one pleases to make them appear totally innocent. No, this needs to stop. This is not what liberations were designed for. In all honesty, it would be better to take them off the table permanently than to encourage such gameplay. Truly disgusting.

Passwords have always been a permanent ace up the griefers' sleeve for a while, so I see no reason why there shouldn't be a technique to counter it.

But what's truly disgusting was how you removed your vote, even when it was evident that it was invaders who bussed in and stacked the vote AGAINST in your region.

Before that happened, the votes were around 8-3. The final vote count was 11-14. When that happened, it became difficult to determine the regional opinion. Unless you have/had specific insight, there is no position for you to gripe about it - the outcome has favored you, and what happens in TEP is solely the rights of those who preside in TEP. It is clear we will have to alter our voting policy, but that is something we will do. In the meantime, I removed my vote since I didn't know what to do - we never had this happen before. I will tell you this, though, I was both threatened and had attempts at collusion from one side (I'll let you guess which one) much more than the other side, something that I'd rather not face in the midst of studying for phd qualifiers.

As for passwords, there is a huge difference, reflected in both the time frame by which the password was implemented, and the fact that both sides of gameplay can and do frequently use it.

[Travancore-Cochin]

If it is such an open policy, why are there (and, I'm going to guess, will be) many delegates coming forward saying they wished they had time to vote, the time that was reflected on the resolution itself? I guess they're all just clueless. Or the whole thing should be made void due to a breech in perjuring the allotted time frame.

I don't see what your problem is with this, exactly. Any delegate who votes on every resolution would be knowing this, since, as I said, it has been so for every resolution at vote since the First Tort Reform Act in early December. Since then, we've had 8 resolutions at vote, all with the timestamp off by 12 hours. Didn't see you having an issue then.

As far as the internal matters of TEP are concerned, I won't comment.

[Cinistra]

Who did manipulate with the time? Scandalous. It should been approx. 7 hours left! This is indeed fishy. So, this resolution must go back into the queue for another vote.

[Bears Armed]

The mods can't do this (measuring intent), so they left it to the general community to do it, believing in the wisdom of the crowd.

Time for a Thomas Jefferson Quote: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine"

The "other forty-nine" are the raiders.

Not exactly true, my friend. The majority of the nations on NS are neither raiders nor defenders; they're neutral. And as a note, if you keep attacking these neutral regions, they'll vote against your opinions. Simple as that. So basically, you raiders are hurting your own cause by simply raiding

Neutrals allow them selves to be the pawns of the "elite",.

Speaking as a 'neutral' (basically; I have never participated in raiding, and have only defended once which was to help restore Kandarin to power in TRR after one of Taijitu's delegates had so foully abused his own supporters' trust by mass-expelling them thence so that he'd have their [mostly unwitting] backing for his takeover attempt...):
BULLSHIT!

I am not a "pawn", I have never been a "pawn", I am somebody who prefers creation to destruction and therefore opposes region-wreckers -- politically, although not yet militarily -- as a matter of principle.

[Gun Heaven]

What a shame this garbage made it into the law books.

QFT

[North East Somerset]

I think many delegates will be relieved to have a break. Who cares about stem cell research when there is some obscure setting to change on the game! That surely has to go down as one of the closest and most tense WA resolutions ever.

No, but seriously then, it is a fine shame this passed, and very much a lottery - were it not for the currently unexplained late swap of Empires of Earth we would have won, likewise if TEP have swapped as their forum vote suggested. I am sure there will be repercussions regarding FRA influence in the Security Council now it has become apparent they wish to use it like this, and possibly even a repeal attempt in the future.

[Bears Armed]

Who did manipulate with the time? Scandalous. It should been approx. 7 hours left! This is indeed fishy. So, this resolution must go back into the queue for another vote.

Haven't you actually bothered to read all of the preceding posts, or did you simply not understand them? Nobody "manipulated" the time for this resolution, the discrepancy was due to a known glitch in the game's settings that had already applied for a number of previous votes too...

[Martyrdoom]

I think many delegates will be relieved to have a break. Who cares about stem cell research when there is some obscure setting to change on the game! That surely has to go down as one of the closest and most tense WA resolutions ever.

No, but seriously then, it is a fine shame this passed, and very much a lottery - were it not for the currently unexplained late swap of Empires of Earth we would have won, likewise if TEP have swapped as their forum vote suggested. I am sure there will be repercussions regarding FRA influence in the Security Council now it has become apparent they wish to use it like this, and possibly even a repeal attempt in the future.

True. FRA have now run liberations to the ground. It might (hopefully) make delegates more skeptical from now on about Liberations, but by the same token that may only be a bad thing for those regions which truly needing a password removing. If 'liberate Belgium' was Megan Fox this would be Ivana Trump.

At my last post last night, there were 13 hours or so to go. Okay, apparently the timer's off my 12 hours according to TC:

The WA timer is off by 12 hours. It has been so for a long time, now. And guess what, it isn't a closely guarded secret either.

Why not mention this fact here, common courtesy and all?

[North East Somerset]

I was however aware that it would end the update before the specified time and it's not a dastardly plot, sure it's quite obscure, but you would expect most delegates to know this...

[Martyrdoom]

Who did manipulate with the time? Scandalous. It should been approx. 7 hours left! This is indeed fishy. So, this resolution must go back into the queue for another vote.

Haven't you actually bothered to read all of the preceding posts, or did you simply not understand them? Nobody "manipulated" the time for this resolution, the discrepancy was due to a known glitch in the game's settings that had already applied for a number of previous votes too...

Known because you knew of it?

For the rest it's one of them unknown unknowns.

[Dysian]

Hold up here.....

at 8am my time there were 23 hours left to vote according to the WA page.

at 1am, the resolution went through.

What gives? Somewhere, there is an error.

No there is none - this is done on purpose. Funny how this error only seems to be "known" by the side who won this vote, no? But anyway, it's not the only "bug" this game has.

Remember the liberation of Belgium? A defender/native WA delegate took over the position from the raider delegate at 4 pm my time. And guess what: the two updates were 6am/6pm, or 10am/10pm by the old rule, I don't recall. In any case, update NEVER was 4 pm. Except for that day.

Also, the "Liberation" game change was proposed after the "Annex". Liberations benefit defenders, while annex benefits generally everyone, although mostly raiders. And guess what? Liberations were implemented with the speed of light, and annex is still not implemented - besides the huge interest, and it being proposed like 6 months ago.

Also, there are cases where nations are "accidentally" logged off without pressing the logout button - at the exact time when they were about to refound a region of theirs (which has to be done in a matter of seconds) - only for the same region to be refounded by "someone else", the very second they login again. Needles to say, the nation who got logged off was an invader.

These cases I've experienced myself, or people close to me. No lies, no deceit, no trickery here. It is more than clear: fendas have sided with the mods and admins, and they are misusing it to the fullest extent. No matter how little sense their written arguments make, they have the advantage of virtually "controlling" gameplay, and therefor have the upper hand on their oppressed counterparts.

[Cinistra]

Who did manipulate with the time? Scandalous. It should been approx. 7 hours left! This is indeed fishy. So, this resolution must go back into the queue for another vote.

Haven't you actually bothered to read all of the preceding posts, or did you simply not understand them? Nobody "manipulated" the time for this resolution, the discrepancy was due to a known glitch in the game's settings that had already applied for a number of previous votes too...

Known glitch?! I didn't know about it until I read all those posts. To withhold information from players, except all you insiders is indeed manipulation. Also, to let this glitch to continue influence game play is dishonesty. So, this is the way defenders cooperate with the Mods, biasing the gameplay to suit their own nefarious schemes.