PASSED: Liberate Free Thought

[Klaus Devestatorie]

TNI had The Aeazen Combine in there as well, but it looks like the entire organisation has run away from NS altogether. Again. In a, well, AC kinda sense.

*drinks to victory celebrations*

[Bears Armed]

I see defenders are too busy writing "liberations" and changing game rules

This line AGAIN?!?
Look, is the fact that it was the game's Admins -- rather than any Defender group[s] -- who created the ''Liberation' category really too complicated for you to understand?

[Sedgistan]

NationStates Ministry of Intelligence and Logistics
Received: 14 minutes ago Our observers noted that your nation was banned from Free Thought by Smartzez.

I love that bug.

[Topid]

I've approved this proposal. Good job on the draft Sedge.

[Anmeg]

How many nations have they ejected? I feel that ejecting just one nation is not griefing. Which then if this is the case I don't believe this resolution is needed. It just sounds like a delegate ejecting another member.

[Sedgistan]

He doesn't have the influence yet to eject the other two.

[Anmeg]

So is there any written proof that he will eject the other two? If not, then with respect I think this proposal is a little bit premature.

[Sedgistan]

If we wait for him to eject the others, it'll be too late - he'll be able to re-found. And yes - the resolution mentions that the regions involved have a track record of attempting to grief regions, details of which will be posted soon.

[Sedgistan]

I got hold of the following statements from the regions involved:

From the Office of the Reich Chancellor of The New Inquisition

Greetings,

Today the FRA member Sedgistan proposed a World Assembly Resolution to Liberate Free Thought condemning The New Inquisition's role in the process. In the proposal the Land of King's and Emperors, Unknown and TNI are accused of griefing the region due to an 'over-reaction to harmless jibes' about the LKE's flag.

Our involvement in this was and is as an ally to the LKE in their action act of war between soverign regions. This happened after the insult to the LKE's flag following a standard raid and was an operation involving Europeia as well as the aforementioned regions.

This action is a blatent attack on the right of soverign regions to wage war and it is a political attack against ourselves and our allies Unkown and the LKE. Our close allies and friends Europeia actually contributed more soldiers than Unknown but have been omitted, through no fault of their own, seemingly due to the fact that senior FRA members are involved there thus making it a personal attack on the raiding community rather than an attack on this particular raid.

Sedgistan's proposal is an affront to every region's choice and ability to wage war and to expand Imperial Empires. It is an attack on the very choice of every individual to raid should they desire. It is a slanderous proposal that misconstrues the the actions of ourselves and our friends in order to win the votes of more Delegates and WA members.

This is unacceptable. It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought. TNI will stand up to this attempt to abridge this right and take us one step closer to removing our right to raid all together. We call on all our citizens, all our friends and all our allies to stand up to this and be vocal against this propsal. The raiding community must not be allowed to be pushed over and have our rights attacked!



Olde Delaware

Reich Chancellor

Dear Citizens, it is with a heavy heart that I inform you that our region returns to war today following the disgraceful actions of the FRA over the region of Free Thought. FRA member Sedgistan submitted a resolution to the WA late last night demanding that the password protection on the region of Free Thought be lifted, following acussations of griefing against our region and our staunch allies Unknown and The New Inquisition.

The FRA accuse us of overreacting to "harmless jibes about our flag", an statement which is based in fantasy rather than fact and has the members who vote for this proposal living in dreamland. We as a region acted to defend our sovereign interests when the region of Free Thought desecrated our flag following on from a standard raid by our troops and we were perfectly justified in retaking and password protecting the region.

The FRA therefore attempts to deny our region it's sovereign right to declare and wage war and to prevent us from doing so in the future. The battle over Free Thought is not just a battle between regions and alliances but a battle for the freedom of all regions to wage war as they chose and protect them from the constrictive shakles of the WA in doing so.

We as a region find this totally unacceptable and we shall be telegraming every single WA delegate in oder to ask them to vote against the proposal. A telegram will be written shortly and I ask all members to volunteer their help in telegraming WA delegates, something which needs to be done as soon as possible in order to prevent the proposal being passed.

Citizens, our people and our region has been blatantly affronted by this act of hostility from a totalitarian alliance which seeks to control the will of all regions in Nation States to wage war. They must realise now that this means war and I will not rest until Free Thought is secure and the FRA are sent with their tails between their legs back to whence they came. My government is dedicated to winning this war and taking on the FRA head on and I know that every single citizen in this region feels the same way. Stand up and be counted and help us to acheive victory.

Long Live the Emperor!

If anyone doubted their intention, they won't any more. They quite clearly state that the purpose is to "expand Imperial Empires" and "occupy and take over Free Thought"

[Unibot]

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

[Kalibarr]

...and our allies [s]Unkown[/s] Unknown...

peplz needs to speelz it right

If anyone doubted their intention, they won't any more. They quite clearly state that the purpose is to "expand Imperial Empires" and "occupy and take over Free Thought

TNI and LKE were offended by the natives, not the best reason in the world, but the remaining natives should not resist , Free Though has no organized government as such the soldiers controlling the region are providing stability and government, it is how many raider operate and why such raids should not be interfered with.

A new founder would provide them with protection and they'd be safe from raids from more destructive groups like Macedon. They have a new chance at life, but defender interference might take it all away.

[Sedgistan]

A new founder would provide them with protection and they'd be safe from raids from more destructive groups like Macedon. They have a new chance at life, but defender interference might take it all away.

They're not even pushing the 'protection and stability' argument though - this invasion is about destruction. Besides, I don't see how getting griefed by one region is an improvement on getting griefed by another.

[Kalibarr]

A new founder would provide them with protection and they'd be safe from raids from more destructive groups like Macedon. They have a new chance at life, but defender interference might take it all away.

They're not even pushing the 'protection and stability' argument though - this invasion is about destruction. Besides, I don't see how getting griefed by one region is an improvement on getting griefed by another.

no nationalist websites

[Sedgistan]

This seems to be the telegram that the invaders are using to campaign against the proposal:

The 6 Billion Eccentrics of Griffin Somerset
New. Received: 5 hours ago Dear WA Delegate,

My name is Viktoria Gryfynn, and I am the Queen and Delegate elect of Lazarus, and the Kaiserin of The New Inquisition,.I am also a Baroness of The Land of Kings and Emperors and a well respected member of that region. I am also not going to waste any time in telling you that I am a raider, however I have given up raiding in order to take up my role in Lazarus, where I was supported by several defenders to gain this position.

I hope, therefore, that you can put the raider/defender differences aside while I ask you to consider withdrawing your approval of the proposal to liberate the region Free Thought.

I'm not suggesting this to you because I want to go on about how unfair the Security Council is to raiders, or that the defenders are using this as an easy way to get rid of us, but simply because the proposal is very inaccurate for one simple reason.

The proposal fails to mention one of the regions that provided necessary support for the invasion of the region. it condemns 3 regions for their actions, however, it completely fails to mention the 4th region, Europeia.

When I pointed this out to Sedgistan, he sent me a telegram saying that it was because they were mentioned on the WFE of the region, and because they haven't led invasions against other regions.

I'd like to point out to you now, that Europeia have been involved in several invasions of regions, and have even been accused of hate crimes by some defenders, for their invasion of the region Mecca. One of their largest and most successful operations was the invasion of the region Venice. They organised and led this operation.

I can provide you with further examples should you requrie them, as well as the telegram that Sedgeston sent me.

Further to this, I would like to point out, that several top members of the FRA have had careers in Europeia, and it is for this reason, that I believe it was left out of the resolution. These members include, Falconias, Numero Capitan, Dyr Nasad and Karputsk.

It is my belief, that the real reason that this region was left out was not to tar the region of Europeia with the brush that tarred the LKE, TNI and Unknown, was simply to avoid condemning a region that members of the FRA have been trying to turn defender for several months.

The original proposal for this liberation did actually mention Europeia however, in a later draft, it was removed because, and I quote from the Security Council Forums, of the interference of "a higher power". This said by Sedgeston himself, thus contradicting what he said to me in his telegram.


I know this letter has been long, and had it not been for this severe oversight on the part of the author, I would not be trying to persuade you, because I know there would be absolutely no point, but I urge you to think about withdrawing your approval of this resolution, as it does not represent the full facts, nor does it mention all regions involved.

Please direct any questions to me,
Best Regards,
Viktoria Gryfynn

Sure, it fails to mention Europeia, but as already explained that is because they don't grief regions to add to their empires. Yes, they have helped their allies grief regions before, but they've also helped combat griefing - such as in the liberation of Feudal Japan. On balance, I decided that their track record didn't show enough evidence of them supporting region griefing for it to be referred to in the resolution.

That aside, I found it amusing to see that the griefers were campaigning against this resolution because it failed to mention that one of their partners-in-crime were invaders too

Someone needs to give these people a PR lesson. I'd love to see them turn up on the forum to debate this resolution, but I don't think it'd really be in their interest to do so...

[Unibot]

- That's going on my list of Worst PR moments in Security Council history, right up there with AoD's self-assplosion of stupidity and ignorance, NAZI EUROPE's "Heil !" campaign letter and Anti-World Assembly's curious method of refuting claims of them to be annoying by posting replies and threats to the WA for everyone's annoyance.

[Kalibarr]

This seems to be the telegram that the invaders are using to campaign against the proposal:

The 6 Billion Eccentrics of Griffin Somerset
New. Received: 5 hours ago Dear WA Delegate,

My name is Viktoria Gryfynn, and I am the Queen and Delegate elect of Lazarus, and the Kaiserin of The New Inquisition,.I am also a Baroness of The Land of Kings and Emperors and a well respected member of that region. I am also not going to waste any time in telling you that I am a raider, however I have given up raiding in order to take up my role in Lazarus, where I was supported by several defenders to gain this position.

I hope, therefore, that you can put the raider/defender differences aside while I ask you to consider withdrawing your approval of the proposal to liberate the region Free Thought.

I'm not suggesting this to you because I want to go on about how unfair the Security Council is to raiders, or that the defenders are using this as an easy way to get rid of us, but simply because the proposal is very inaccurate for one simple reason.

The proposal fails to mention one of the regions that provided necessary support for the invasion of the region. it condemns 3 regions for their actions, however, it completely fails to mention the 4th region, Europeia.

When I pointed this out to Sedgistan, he sent me a telegram saying that it was because they were mentioned on the WFE of the region, and because they haven't led invasions against other regions.

I'd like to point out to you now, that Europeia have been involved in several invasions of regions, and have even been accused of hate crimes by some defenders, for their invasion of the region Mecca. One of their largest and most successful operations was the invasion of the region Venice. They organised and led this operation.

I can provide you with further examples should you requrie them, as well as the telegram that Sedgeston sent me.

Further to this, I would like to point out, that several top members of the FRA have had careers in Europeia, and it is for this reason, that I believe it was left out of the resolution. These members include, Falconias, Numero Capitan, Dyr Nasad and Karputsk.

It is my belief, that the real reason that this region was left out was not to tar the region of Europeia with the brush that tarred the LKE, TNI and Unknown, was simply to avoid condemning a region that members of the FRA have been trying to turn defender for several months.

The original proposal for this liberation did actually mention Europeia however, in a later draft, it was removed because, and I quote from the Security Council Forums, of the interference of "a higher power". This said by Sedgeston himself, thus contradicting what he said to me in his telegram.


I know this letter has been long, and had it not been for this severe oversight on the part of the author, I would not be trying to persuade you, because I know there would be absolutely no point, but I urge you to think about withdrawing your approval of this resolution, as it does not represent the full facts, nor does it mention all regions involved.

Please direct any questions to me,
Best Regards,
Viktoria Gryfynn

Sure, it fails to mention Europeia, but as already explained that is because they don't grief regions to add to their empires. Yes, they have helped their allies grief regions before, but they've also helped combat griefing - such as in the liberation of Feudal Japan. On balance, I decided that their track record didn't show enough evidence of them supporting region griefing for it to be referred to in the resolution.

That aside, I found it amusing to see that the griefers were campaigning against this resolution because it failed to mention that one of their partners-in-crime were invaders too

Someone needs to give these people a PR lesson. I'd love to see them turn up on the forum to debate this resolution, but I don't think it'd really be in their interest to do so...

so "sedgeston", you should call on your "higher power" and edit the resolution even though it's already been submitted.

[Travancore-Cochin]

I quote misquote from the Security Council Forums, of the interference of "a higher power".

There, corrected that for you.

Anyway, see ya around. *waves*

[Dysian]

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

Says Game Rules. Here: http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette
Of course, that is, until you guys gather the nerve to lobby for the admins to change even those rules, and try to outlaw raiding altogether.

[Ananke]

Ah, but others have a right to oppose invasions as well. I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them), while on the other hand constantly complain about people opposing them. If you've got a right to invade, we've got a right to do what we can to end your occupations as well, inside the gamerules of course, which at this point includes Liberation resolutions.

Btw. the talk about defenders trying to outlaw raiding is getting old. Not very many people feel that way, at least in the gameplay communities, so let's give that strawman a bit of peace, shall we?

Edit: Anyway, apologies for the more general post. I'll let you get back to the proposal at hand.

[Dysian]

I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them),

ummm, I'm just gonna quote it again

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

*EDIT: Yeah, sorry for being OOC. But as usual, I just had to.

[Topid]

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

Cowardice is hiding behind a hidden password to destroy a region without anyone having a chance to save the region. You just said defenders have a right to stop raids... But raiders can't save a region if a hidden password is in effect. If you want to raid a region and make it your colony you still can, but we can now strike down a password. That's it. Raiders can and have held regions without a password, it's just not as easy as you would like it to be.

[Dyr Nasad]

I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them),

ummm, I'm just gonna quote it again

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

*EDIT: Yeah, sorry for being OOC. But as usual, I just had to.

1-And we can attempt to liberate it. Why is this so hard to understand?

2-I was under the impression that the game admins added liberation resolutions to the game - in no way did we "change the rules in cowardice"

[Kalibarr]

I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them),

ummm, I'm just gonna quote it again

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

*EDIT: Yeah, sorry for being OOC. But as usual, I just had to.

1-And we can attempt to liberate it. Why is this so hard to understand?

2-I was under the impression that the game admins added liberation resolutions to the game - in no way did we "change the rules in cowardice"

who do you suppose lobbied for it? not the raiders...

[Dyr Nasad]

I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them),

ummm, I'm just gonna quote it again

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

*EDIT: Yeah, sorry for being OOC. But as usual, I just had to.

1-And we can attempt to liberate it. Why is this so hard to understand?

2-I was under the impression that the game admins added liberation resolutions to the game - in no way did we "change the rules in cowardice"

who do you suppose lobbied for it? not the raiders...

I'm not saying that we didn't support it, but they are now a legitimate part of the game. You are going to have to adapt, and, as shown in some of the quotes earlier in this thread, get your PR together.

[Martyrdoom]

I don't get why invaders on the one hand talk about their 'right' to invade (which noone's taking from them),

ummm, I'm just gonna quote it again

It is our legitimate right as a soverign region to choose to help occupy and take over Free Thought.

Says what assembly?

And you realize they ARE trying to take away that right. Of course you also have the right to stop the raids within what the rules allow. But such a radical step as changing the rules in order to make that easier is a kind of cowardice, don't you think?

*EDIT: Yeah, sorry for being OOC. But as usual, I just had to.

1-And we can attempt to liberate it. Why is this so hard to understand?

2-I was under the impression that the game admins added liberation resolutions to the game - in no way did we "change the rules in cowardice"

who do you suppose lobbied for it? not the raiders...

Exactly right. My understanding is that it was a few defenders who campaigned for it. Liberations would have had much more credibility in my eyes if they were initiated by some irate 'natives' who had just been banjected from behind a password or some such. But much like they are now, defenders do them 'on behalf' of other nations.

Plus, the problem with this case is that it doesn't satisfy its own definition of 'griefing'. The 'forcible removal' of the remaining 'native' nations hasn't happened.

Moreover,

RECOGNISING that the natives of Free Thought, including Polynumina and Luna Amore, desire to have the region restored to their control;

That's something a liberation cannot do by itself. And if it can't, why's it being mentioned? That's just a recipe for a new round of 'griefing' as well as making a nominal neutral act way more politically charged. Why's it suddenly the job of the WA/SC to empower one group or nation over others? It's stuff creeping in like this that make a bollocks of the game.