[PASSED] Condemn General Halcones

[Yerklovakia]

It is a tad suspicious that someone who joined yesterday is defending something that someone who joined yesterday shouldn't even know about, much less care about or know how to find.
I'm going with puppet on this one.

[Great Kleomentia]

It's a load of "General Halcones, The Black Riders, General Halcones, The Black Riders." disregarding the fact that he was in other raider groups. It also ignores any individual achievements that he has, in favor of pandering to the people that start up the "Fight the black riders" threads on the gameplay forum.

TL;DR Fix the condemnation, we've seen enough of your propaganda already.

My apologies if your overlord is not satisfied, but that does not affect me in the slightest. Halcones wants a Condemnation; I never said I'd give him a detailed one to recognize all of his deeds or actions. This is a compromise, of sorts. The facts are all correct, you're just not satisfied with the content and wording.

And I am not drafting this for Halcones' benefit, so I couldn't care less.

Bad lie is bad. And even if you didn't care, it is your duty to create a proposal with actual detailed reasons for said action. You wrote up a few sentences of "hurt duur TBR evil" and called it a proposal, and even went as far as to not provide any sources when asked. You are truly living up to your reputation, neph.

[Great Kleomentia]

It is a tad suspicious that someone who joined yesterday is defending something that someone who joined yesterday shouldn't even know about, much less care about or know how to find.
I'm going with puppet on this one.

Captain obvious strikes again.

[Nephmir]

My apologies if your overlord is not satisfied, but that does not affect me in the slightest. Halcones wants a Condemnation; I never said I'd give him a detailed one to recognize all of his deeds or actions. This is a compromise, of sorts. The facts are all correct, you're just not satisfied with the content and wording.

And I am not drafting this for Halcones' benefit, so I couldn't care less.

Bad lie is bad. And even if you didn't care, it is your duty to create a proposal with actual detailed reasons for said action. You wrote up a few sentences of "hurt duur TBR evil" and called it a proposal, and even went as far as to not provide any sources when asked. You are truly living up to your reputation, neph.

Are you even paying attention?

I provided sources. I just didn't link to them because I didn't feel like spending the next 4 hours linking to every report.

Someone from TBR even just confirmed it... someone who's job it is to keep track of these things. The "no sources" horse is dead, so stop.

My reputation is already poor among the GP community, and I don't need reminded of it in every thread I visit. If I gave a damn about it anymore I wouldn't be doing this, would I? I don't care about my reputation at this point, I have more I important things to worry about, namely not that of a pretend reputation in a game.

[Cora II]

@Nephmir:

I am personally concerned here only that Halc's Condemnation is enough good, objective and detailed. Almost what ever would go through for vast masses. Your motives for ranting these drafts is not pure or sincere, but I do not care about that, as long as what is said on the Proposal is not erroneous and false to the degrees it would make unjust for The Father of Raiding of NationStates.

It's only good you didn't include Halc's merits in TBH (and other raiding organisations) to this proposal as it makes possible and easier to do next and hopefully better Condemnation Draft for Him.

[Great Kleomentia]

Bad lie is bad. And even if you didn't care, it is your duty to create a proposal with actual detailed reasons for said action. You wrote up a few sentences of "hurt duur TBR evil" and called it a proposal, and even went as far as to not provide any sources when asked. You are truly living up to your reputation, neph.

Are you even paying attention?

I provided sources. I just didn't link to them because I didn't feel like spending the next 4 hours linking to every report.

Someone from TBR even just confirmed it... someone who's job it is to keep track of these things. The "no sources" horse is dead, so stop.

My reputation is already poor among the GP community, and I don't need reminded of it in every thread I visit. If I gave a damn about it anymore I wouldn't be doing this, would I? I don't care about my reputation at this point, I have more I important things to worry about, namely not that of a pretend reputation in a game.

No, you haven't given any direct sources. You don't have to spend the next four hours searching through threads to get a few links, it would take around fifteen minutes. And you have yet to announce why you are going through all the trouble of proposing several raiders to be condemned. So for now i'm going to go with attention seeking.

[Nephmir]

Are you even paying attention?

I provided sources. I just didn't link to them because I didn't feel like spending the next 4 hours linking to every report.

Someone from TBR even just confirmed it... someone who's job it is to keep track of these things. The "no sources" horse is dead, so stop.

My reputation is already poor among the GP community, and I don't need reminded of it in every thread I visit. If I gave a damn about it anymore I wouldn't be doing this, would I? I don't care about my reputation at this point, I have more I important things to worry about, namely not that of a pretend reputation in a game.

No, you haven't given any direct sources. You don't have to spend the next four hours searching through threads to get a few links, it would take around fifteen minutes. And you have yet to announce why you are going through all the trouble of proposing several raiders to be condemned. So for now i'm going to go with attention seeking.

One = Several.

I see.

Yeah, I'm done here. I'm not staying here to get trolled.

[Great Kleomentia]

No, you haven't given any direct sources. You don't have to spend the next four hours searching through threads to get a few links, it would take around fifteen minutes. And you have yet to announce why you are going through all the trouble of proposing several raiders to be condemned. So for now i'm going to go with attention seeking.

One = Several.

I see.

Yeah, I'm done here. I'm not staying here to get trolled.

Or, and bear with me now, you could make an actual proposal instead of a rant composed of several sentences describing nothing at all.

[Blood Wine]

Question:

Hereby Condemns General Halcones of The Black Riders

I'm curious about the "of the black riders" part,is it legal? I recall there being some issue with C/C when going beyond to clause to say "condemns X of Y" or "condemn X and Y"

Mod ruling please?

[Chester Pearson]

File a GHR on this please before it gets to vote....

[Aurum Rider]

Sources, numbers, etc are overlooking the blaring flaws here. The issue is that the proposal mentions little else about Halcones other than tag raiding. As cora mentioned, he was in TBH, which the proposal doesn't mention. He was even a defender in the past.
You can throw mud at me saying that im a TBR member all you want, that won't change the fact that this is a poorly written proposal that can have virtually any raider's name slapped onto it with a few minor changes.

[Normlpeople]

"I don't really care about the SC much... but I support this. It is high time a brilliant General such as Halcones is properly decorated with the honor he is so deserving. More Riders need such decoration."

[Blood Wine]

File a GHR on this please before it gets to vote....

And then get told off again because you need to do it in the thread itself

[Chester Pearson]

File a GHR on this please before it gets to vote....

And then get told off again because you need to do it in the thread itself

Since when? It is a legality challenge which clearly requires as GHR as we have been told many times.

[Sedgistan]

It's not illegal.

[Coraxion]

"I don't really care about the SC much... but I support this. It is high time a brilliant General such as Halcones is properly decorated with the honor he is so deserving. More Riders need such decoration."

Problem generally is that Defender hegemony in The Security Council think: "Do not condemn raiders for what they are good, as this just encourage them continue further what they do and Condemnation is considered as a honor among them."

Exactly!

More interesting it would go if really good Raiders would get enough good Condemnation proposals. NO WAY!

Instead these Halls of Wisdom tinker with Drafts for condemnations of people who has done Nothing that can be compared with Halcones and many other Professional Raiders, whom careers are now exceeding a decade.

Instead. If you're nobody, You can invade few regions or tag 100 others and it requires only minimal effort for those proposals get them approved as a resolutions. Then, novices draft all kind scrap proposals for Elite Raiders and only critique comes from the Raiders.

We Won! Huzzah!

[Chester Pearson]

Disgusted that General Halcones has constructed The Black Riders in its image, training the officers of The Black Riders to engage in ruthless and barbaric behavior, who in turn teach these tactics to new nations, permanently corrupting them,

Hereby Condemns General Halcones of The Black Riders

I would argue both of these clauses as 4b violations. How can a nation be an officer? Also the way the last clause is worded, it makes the proposal read like Halc is actually a general in an organization, and not a nation.

GHR filed....

[Nephmir]

Disgusted that General Halcones has constructed The Black Riders in its image, training the officers of The Black Riders to engage in ruthless and barbaric behavior, who in turn teach these tactics to new nations, permanently corrupting them,

Hereby Condemns General Halcones of The Black Riders

I would argue both of these clauses as 4b violations. How can a nation be an officer? Also the way the last clause is worded, it makes the proposal read like Halc is actually a general in an organization, and not a nation.

GHR filed....

In the same way a nation can be a delegate, or a member of an organization like the World Assembly.

Can we stop pestering the mods for once?

[Chester Pearson]

Disgusted that General Halcones has constructed The Black Riders in its image, training the officers of The Black Riders to engage in ruthless and barbaric behavior, who in turn teach these tactics to new nations, permanently corrupting them,

Hereby Condemns General Halcones of The Black Riders

I would argue both of these clauses as 4b violations. How can a nation be an officer? Also the way the last clause is worded, it makes the proposal read like Halc is actually a general in an organization, and not a nation.

GHR filed....

In the same way a nation can be a delegate, or a member of an organization like the World Assembly.

Can we stop pestering the mods for once?

Stop submitting illegal proposals then....

[Nephmir]

In the same way a nation can be a delegate, or a member of an organization like the World Assembly.

Can we stop pestering the mods for once?

Stop submitting illegal proposals then....

I... I'm not even going to bother.

In fact, from this moment on, I am done posting in these forums.

[Sichuan Pepper]

Further Acknowledging that General Halcones is responsible for leading raids on more than half of these regions, executing innocent World Assembly Delegates and forcibly removing natives from their homes,

How do you execute a Nation?

[Chester Pearson]

Further Acknowledging that General Halcones is responsible for leading raids on more than half of these regions, executing innocent World Assembly Delegates and forcibly removing natives from their homes,

How do you execute a Nation?

Good catch Wordy. I missed that one. Thank you for pointing it out.

[McMasterdonia]

Stop submitting illegal proposals then....

I... I'm not even going to bother.

In fact, from this moment on, I am done posting in these forums.

Don't be disheartened by the attitude of some of the regulars in this forum. Keep coming back and improving.

[Solorni]

I don't understand why they are so gung-ho about rule 4

[Sedgistan]

Disgusted that General Halcones has constructed The Black Riders in its image, training the officers of The Black Riders to engage in ruthless and barbaric behavior, who in turn teach these tactics to new nations, permanently corrupting them,

Hereby Condemns General Halcones of The Black Riders

I would argue both of these clauses as 4b violations. How can a nation be an officer? Also the way the last clause is worded, it makes the proposal read like Halc is actually a general in an organization, and not a nation.

GHR filed....

Nations can hold positions; that's been established countless times before in SC proposals. The operative clause has what's necessary - it condemns the nominee, with a link to their nation making crystal clear who it is referring to. What comes after is just fluff/filler - the same way authors sometimes summarise their arguments after the operative clause.